CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
- 44,168
- 27,376
Line Combos: CBJ Roster Discussion/Line Combos/Injury Report
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CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
- 44,168
- 27,376
Cowumbus
Registered User
Jovavic
boohoo, Pens "fans", BOOHOO
That would need to be a pretty nice + going the other way due to the age difference of the two players
koteka
Registered User
I think they both suck. Provorov has the 2nd highest salary on the team. Severson gets the 2nd highest paycheck from the Jackets of anyone on the team. These are the two guys that should get blasted and blasted repeatedly.
CBJ season GF GA
22-23 2.54 (30th) 4.00 (31st)
23-24 2.85 (25th) 3.63 (31st)
24-25 3.31 (9th) 3.63 (30th)
The problem with this team is the same problem as two years ago. We give up too many goals. Our 6 highest players are ironically 4 defensemen, Monahan, and Merzlikins.
You know who we should be coming for with pitchforks and torches? Provorov and Severson.
When your analysis of the quality of players starts with their salaries and then proceeds to team stats, you're going to get to mostly bad conclusions.
Hey ZAR only makes league minimum and the team is scoring a lot of goals, what a great player!
Severson and Provorov can be overpaid and still be fine middle pair D.
No.
koteka
Registered User
Jarmo spent draft capital and money to get Severson and Provorov. And didn’t improve the defense. And people want to argue which one is better better - you like to be the contrarian and say Severson is better. I think it is a pointless argument. It is like arguing whether Zherdev or Brule was a worse draft pick. Meanwhile I see far more criticism of guys who play forward and make $2 million and the offense is improved. I see people legitimately arguing for extending Provorov which just blows my mind.
This team needs to do what it needed to do 3 or 4 years ago. Get a defensively responsible right D. Add a legit veteran leader (I have seen absolutely no evidence that Provorov or Severson is that guy). Figure out the centers (at least we have Monahan and some options now). Bring in a goalie who can handle being a goalie.
Meanwhile suggestions like “maybe we could bring back Bjorkstrand” permeate. How about we never bring back a former Jacket because no former Jacket ever did well enough to turn this team into a winner? Let’s bring in an actual winner. And hopefully not a freaking wing.
SteelCityCannon
Registered User
You don't think the defense improved? Did you watch before they got here?
They've been fine most of the time. They're just oil and water together. Needs to be
Z - Fabbro
Provorov - X
X - Severson
Fill in the blanks.
If you're trying to analyze a player as a hockey player, as opposed to as an abstract commodity in the history of a team, and the first words you type out are "Jarmo spent", then you should know you are doing it wrong and start over.
Makes sense. We should probably get rid of Monahan then. Didn't do well enough to turn the Habs into a winner. They're saying he wasn't good enough for that so can't be good enough here either. I mean it's not like a team game or anything and obviously all team outcomes are reducible to whichever individual player you feel like picking on at the moment. Brilliant shit.
koteka
Registered User
We are 30th in the league in goals against. The biggest improvement on defense is Werenski is having a career year and making anyone on the ice with him look better. We are rewarding Werenski by playing him an insane amount of ice time.
Werenski is averaging 26:30 of ice time per game. #2 is Sergechev at 25:57. Makar is #3 at 25:21. So only one guy in the league is within one minute of Werenski’s ice time. That seems crazy to me, but it also might explain why we have moved up 30th in the league in GAA instead of 31.
spintheblackcircle
incoming!!!
- Mar 1, 2002
- 67,607
- 13,453
Proverov starts over 60% of his shifts in the defensive zone and he’s still a plus 2 on a negative team.
He’s been underratedly good this year
He’s been underratedly good this year
SteelCityCannon
Registered User
Before this year, Werenski wasn’t playing good/great defense either. They don’t “suck”, they are offensive defensemen.
What’s your opinion on Gudbranson? Hate him like everyone else?
Even as a huge fan of Severson, I’ve always contested he wasn’t really the TYPE of defenseman the team needed at the time. The same exact thing can be said for Provorov. We needed any decent defenseman we could get when getting both guys.
They ARE offensive defenseman, who are OK playing a “two way” game. Neither guy is a great fit with Werenski, or playing regularly on a high responsibility top pairing. You know who also ISN’T that? Dante f***ing Fabbro.
I think Mateychuk should be the 2D right now, and I think while people have given him the respect/hype he deserves, maybe more so early in the year, I think we are downplaying what Christiansen can bring to the ice also at this point. I think he’s better defensively than the majority of our defense, and he’s somebody I would look to continue giving more ice time. Over Harris/Johnson, and yes Provorov/Severson in defensive situations, and if no Mateychuk, given opportunities with Werenski.
The pitchforks!?! As much as I like Greaves, he’s a backup. We NEED a new goalie.
On the flip side, the Jackets are one goal away from the league lead in 5v5 goals.
You must think we have nearly the best forwards in the league. How about that JVR and ZAR? I mean they're forwards, and we score a ton.
If that sounds stupid to you, well that's pretty much the mirror of your argument against our D-men.
The defense hasn’t been built great the last handful of years. Both guys weren’t perfect fits, but, they undoubtedly made the team and defense better. I agree with you about people wanting to extend Provorov. Simply because of Mateychuk and to a lesser extent Christiansen. It was different a few years ago.
Where does Gudbranson fit into this?? I’m assuming you’ll just say he sucks. So please, give me a couple names that you think would be acceptable?? Seth Jones?? Does he suck too??
Again, agree with the goalie problem.
Then you lose me again.
“Former jacket” in this context is like when people say, “draft pick” or “1st round pick”, as if everything is equal. The CBJ team WAS an “winner” with Bjorkstrand. Again, where does Seth Jones fit into all of this?
Please Koteka, give me a list of acceptable defenseman and “winners”. Thanks in advance.
How many of those shifts have been with Werenski?
The last thing Provorov has been this year, is underrated.
Werenski has looked like a legit Norris defenseman. And despite what some would like to pass off, it’s had NOTHING to do with Provorov or Fabbro.
I’ll play
Mateychuk-Werenski
Christiansen-Severson
Provorov-Fabbro
That’s what the top 6 should be right now. IMO. And Gudbranson comes in when healthy. Top pairing Fabbro needs to end.
SteelCityCannon
Registered User
Has Z ever played the offhand? Not sure about Mateychuk playing top pair already but hoenstly like the bottom two pairs. I think Christiansen is a little underrated around these parts.
It would be really nice for another RD to step up. Wish Jiricek wasnt a pud.
Interestingly Provorov-Fabbro have played with each other a little bit - only one full game as a pairing but also 1-3 shifts together a lot of nights. And their performance so far is 4 GF 0 GA, with very good underlying numbers. Obviously a small sample.
I'd like to see those pairings. Christiansen-Severson looked like a good second pair until they were split up. You can call them a second or third pair, it doesn't matter to me. I'm not sure how Mateychuk would fit next to Z, (Mateychuk would probably play more right side), but it's worth trying.
But I also don't get the fierce opposition to having Werenski and Fabbro together. Obviously Fabbro isn't a real top pair caliber guy but if he clicks with Werenski then who cares. You're trying to fix something that isn't broken.
spintheblackcircle
incoming!!!
- Mar 1, 2002
- 67,607
- 13,453
I would guess not many, Zach is dead last on the team in defensive zone starts with less than 40% while Severson is at 62% and Provorov is at 60%. You may think "The Jackets never have possession with player x on the ice", but when 50% more of your shifts start on defense than Zach, one can very easily can be fooled that they are not playing well.
Chemistry is the most important. If Fabbro complements Werenski well, his play helps Zach I don't see the slightest reason why they shouldn't play together.
I rather dislike Severson. He makes a lot of mistakes. To judge after the first period, he and Mateychuk were, as we say in Slovakia, "heaven and bagpipes". I hope this lesson will force him to perform better defensively.
Btw, the minimum in the first period Provorov and Mateychuk worked very well together.
ANYBODY can play on their “weak side”. If anyone is good enough it’s Werenski, he has good enough hands and poise with the puck. Mateychuk could also play the right side, but, why make it any harder on him?
Haven’t pretty much all the other defenseman played on the opposite side this year, at times??
I don’t think Fabbro/Werenski is actually “clicking” the way many are trying to pass off. The same way it wasn’t with Provorov/Werenski. Before that 3rd period and he was scratched, Severson/Werenski had been playing together again, and were looking good for a few games. Again, even if I like Severson more than the other 2, nothing had “clicked”, the guys were just playing well, and as with the other guys, it’s obviously mainly/essentially Werenski carrying the pairing.
The way Werenski is playing, his pairing should be much more impactful in general. Especially with Fabbro, he’s almost always a one man attack, and Fabbro doesn’t seem to be some exceptional defender either, and has significant issues moving the puck out of the defensive zone. IMO Gudbranson would be just as good, if not a better partner for Werenski.
Mateychuk has played on his offside before, he'd have an easier transition there. I think you very highly underestimate how many things and how much longer it can take to do things on your offside.
Well, Werenski is one of the best defenseman in the league handling the puck, and plenty of people have issues with Mateychuk playing on the top pairing as is, let alone having to do it on his off side.
Why do people think Werenski couldn’t play on the right side??
Provorov and Christiansen can play RD? Severson LD? And Werenski can’t?
