Prospect Info: CBJ Prospect Thread XI

[NotTooWideArena]

Just for laughs, here's the Google Translate rendering of the tweet from Liga:

"Ville Keskinen watches the warm-up of Tappara's final match with a keen eye, wearing a fan shirt. It says Keskinen on the back, of course. Father and son have developed a funny habit after the warm-up. The two throw "air flaps" before Oiva leaves the dressing room.

"Oiva Keskinen joined Tappara's standard lineup as a credit center. There have been bumps on the way to the League, when health problems appeared in the C-junior age. Father Ville Keskinen tells how Oiva became a top player. "

I swear, if I ever have too much time on my hands I will almost certainly take up the study of Finnish. (Google translate has its uses, but we should never mistake its output for an actual translation.)

 

[koteka]

Pinelli's pick was the point in last year's draft where I felt they really lost me. Their 3rd forward in a row that was 5'9. And not a lot of production for that size and no special qualities like Brindley has.

3 picks later the Red Wings took a 6’3” left D who scouts say is really good at disrupting zone entries and has a booming shot. You know what we could use in our pipeline a lot more than another smallish wing?

 

[Xoggz22]

I don't disagree with you all on some of the concerns. I will only add that once beyond round 1 and 2, it becomes a question of absolute upside and dart throws. I would actually argue more against the Strathmann pick than the Pinelli pick. I don't see a high upside with Strathman and to add a defenseman that is under 6' with no real upside... seems like an AHL pick. I prefer the risk of taking Pinelli than Strathmann at that point. Once the 3rd round hits (unless truly a deep deep draft), I advocate for high upside, higher risk players or an overager. Like, I love the Keskinen pick. Here's a kid that's a year older but actually adds to the center depth with some size and skill and has a higher upside. I also like the Peddle pick in the 7th. There's your dart throw. If he ever put it together, he's got a real interesting skill set with his size, skill and demeanor. He doesn't seem like it's going to happen but certainly worth it in the 7th (or go overseas like we've done in prior drafts).

 

[Cowumbus]

I don't disagree with you all on some of the concerns. I will only add that once beyond round 1 and 2, it becomes a question of absolute upside and dart throws. I would actually argue more against the Strathmann pick than the Pinelli pick. I don't see a high upside with Strathman and to add a defenseman that is under 6' with no real upside... seems like an AHL pick. I prefer the risk of taking Pinelli than Strathmann at that point. Once the 3rd round hits (unless truly a deep deep draft), I advocate for high upside, higher risk players or an overager. Like, I love the Keskinen pick. Here's a kid that's a year older but actually adds to the center depth with some size and skill and has a higher upside. I also like the Peddle pick in the 7th. There's your dart throw. If he ever put it together, he's got a real interesting skill set with his size, skill and demeanor. He doesn't seem like it's going to happen but certainly worth it in the 7th (or go overseas like we've done in prior drafts).

When I watched Peddle in person he looked like he couldn’t handle the puck any better than guys on my beer league team. This was last year of course, haven’t seen him this season. Definitely a long shot. But who knows, Rempe is on a playoff roster rn.

 

[Xoggz22]

When I watched Peddle in person he looked like he couldn’t handle the puck any better than guys on my beer league team. This was last year of course, haven’t seen him this season. Definitely a long shot. But who knows, Rempe is on a playoff roster rn.

I paid attention to him in development camp and thought he was pretty good. I watched some of his play this year and the trade seemed to be a big push for him. As to Rempe... I think he's a flash in the pan and not long for the league. I may be on an island with that one but I just don't see much beyond his willingness to fight. The few games I've seen he doesn't look like a good skater to me and seems to be focused on just stirring shit up. Time will tell in both regards.

 

[thebus88]

The other day we were talking about the big forwards popping in the playoffs.

Adam Lowry was a third rounder, Dakota Joshua a 5th, Rempe a 6th. Sometimes even the big guys you draft for depth end up making a bigger impact than expected.

Yep, added value for sure. Looking at our bigger guys doesn’t instill confidence. Dolzhenkov probably our best chance?

That’s 3 guys out of 16 teams. The list of later drafted “small forwards who popped in the playoffs” I’m sure is similar.

Where does Brad Marchand fit into all this?

Physical size literally has nothing to do with anything or any added value. Crosby and McDavid aren’t better players if they’re 6 foot 4. It’s all about HOW you play the game.

 

[thebus88]

3 picks later the Red Wings took a 6’3” left D who scouts say is really good at disrupting zone entries and has a booming shot. You know what we could use in our pipeline a lot more than another smallish wing?

Uhh….probably everything….?

 

[majormajor]

I don't disagree with you all on some of the concerns. I will only add that once beyond round 1 and 2, it becomes a question of absolute upside and dart throws. I would actually argue more against the Strathmann pick than the Pinelli pick. I don't see a high upside with Strathman and to add a defenseman that is under 6' with no real upside... seems like an AHL pick. I prefer the risk of taking Pinelli than Strathmann at that point. Once the 3rd round hits (unless truly a deep deep draft), I advocate for high upside, higher risk players or an overager. Like, I love the Keskinen pick. Here's a kid that's a year older but actually adds to the center depth with some size and skill and has a higher upside. I also like the Peddle pick in the 7th. There's your dart throw. If he ever put it together, he's got a real interesting skill set with his size, skill and demeanor. He doesn't seem like it's going to happen but certainly worth it in the 7th (or go overseas like we've done in prior drafts).

I don't know much about Strathmann but at 5'11 187 that's a different category, that's Makar/Fox size.

That’s 3 guys out of 16 teams.

It's actually 3 off the top of my head. We could come up with a longer list if we tried.

The list of later drafted “small forwards who popped in the playoffs” I’m sure is similar.

It's not. Though ultra thick guys like Marchand and Marchessault have done well. If you have a 5'9 kid that you think will get incredibly built then go for it. I have no complaints with the Malatesta or Danforth additions.

 

[Cowumbus]

That’s 3 guys out of 16 teams. The list of later drafted “small forwards who popped in the playoffs” I’m sure is similar.

It’s just an example man.

Where does Brad Marchand fit into all this?

Wherever you want him to.

Physical size literally has nothing to do with anything or any added value. Crosby and McDavid aren’t better players if they’re 6 foot 4. It’s all about HOW you play the game.

It actually does matter.

If Nick Blankenburg was 6’2” it would change everything.

There were a total of 30 players 5’9” or smaller who played over 25 games this year. Less than 1 a team..

 

[tunnelvision]

Kind of a rough game in some ways for Mateychuk and the Warriors on a b2b night as Blades evened the series 1-1 with an OT win. Well deserved loss after that many unclean passes, puck fumbles under pressure and a terrible PP.

 

[Jukurit]

Oiva Keskinen looked good in Liiga playoffs. Smart center with good skating and good hands. Very good player for a 7th rounder.

 

[CBJx614]

Oiva Keskinen looked good in Liiga playoffs. Smart center with good skating and good hands. Very good player for a 7th rounder.

These are the kinds of picks we've been missing. If he can translate his game to the NHL and make an impact that is. We've had some late picks but, but nothing more than a depth/tweener with Gavi being the exception... eventually we have to hit on one of these late right picks developing into a star.....

.....right?!

 

[cbjthrowaway]

That’s 3 guys out of 16 teams. The list of later drafted “small forwards who popped in the playoffs” I’m sure is similar.

an incomplete but absurdly impressive list of small forwards drafted in the mid/late rounds (or undrafted):

• johnny gaudreau
• brayden point
• nikita kucherov
• jake guentzel
• jonathan marchessault
• cam atkinson
• vincent trocheck
• conor garland
• andrew mangiapane
• tyler johnson
• brendan gallagher
• mats zuccarello
• yanni gourde
• viktor arvidsson
• conor sheary
• kevin fiala

to your point, that list includes a bunch of former cup winners (tampa was really ahead of the curve on valuing smaller guys), an art ross winner, the reigning conn smythe winner, etc.

i'd take any of those guys over matt rempe, who plays 5 minutes a night.

Pinelli's pick was the point in last year's draft where I felt they really lost me. Their 3rd forward in a row that was 5'9. And not a lot of production for that size and no special qualities like Brindley has.

comparing pinelli to brindley is a fool's errand seeing as brindley was an early second round pick and pinelli was still on the board at #114. you should compare him to the players taken after that pick, and no one really jumps out there.

once you get out of the first round (or maybe the early second) you don't draft to fill specific positions in the pipeline, you draft the player on your board you think has the best chance of playing NHL games. pinelli seems like a good bet for that.

again, the reigning conn smythe winner was also a 5'9 winger (marchessault) who wasn't a highly rated draft prospect. pinelli's age 17 and 18 seasons in the OHL (145p in 135gp) were far more productive than marchessault's in the high-scoring QMJHL (124p in 130gp)

the production is good, plus he plays with a lot of energy and wears the C. there's plenty to like with pinelli for a fourth round pick. even with a lot of wingers in the system, there's nothing wrong with adding someone who could turn into a garland/gourde type.

 

[majormajor]

comparing pinelli to brindley is a fool's errand seeing as brindley was an early second round pick and pinelli was still on the board at #114. you should compare him to the players taken after that pick, and no one really jumps out there.

once you get out of the first round (or maybe the early second) you don't draft to fill specific positions in the pipeline, you draft the player on your board you think has the best chance of playing NHL games. pinelli seems like a good bet for that.

again, the reigning conn smythe winner was also a 5'9 winger (marchessault) who wasn't a highly rated draft prospect. pinelli's age 17 and 18 seasons in the OHL (145p in 135gp) were far more productive than marchessault's in the high-scoring QMJHL (124p in 130gp)

the production is good, plus he plays with a lot of energy and wears the C. there's plenty to like with pinelli for a fourth round pick. even with a lot of wingers in the system, there's nothing wrong with adding someone who could turn into a garland/gourde type.

I wouldn't object to a Garland type or a Gourde type or a Marchessault type, I just didn't see much chance of that when I watched Pinelli. Those players either have impressive builds or very impressive skating or insane squirmy skills, and I don't see any of that with Pinelli.

I couldn't tell you who to pick at #114, I don't do a lot of deep draft watching these days. But it's often a good range to get quality defensemen. I had my eye on Legault. Minnetian and Dionicio are good. I don't know more than one or two other players that deep in the draft.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Former prospect of ours who I liked, but we never signed

 

[tunnelvision]

MJ wins game 3 with a 3-1 score. Goal and assist for Mateychuk, Rysavy with the GWG. Another super tight defensive battle between these clubs, feels like an ideal environment for prospects to develop in. Mateychuk's limitations with puckhandling and defensive game are getting exposed at times but he's still been one of the best players in each game imo.

 

[squashmaple]

Dobber Prospects has been counting down organization strengths. Columbus was posted today, coming in at fifth.

They are correctly big fans of Mateychuk and Ivanov. They also agree that this prospect pool might end up with a crabs-in-a-bucket problem. Either way, they say it will be fascinating to watch.

 

[Cowumbus]

Why are they comparing two completely different players?

 

[stevo61]

Why are they comparing two completely different players?

Probably because the progression is similar and if they pick an NHL star people will talk about it

 

[Cowumbus]

Critical!

 

[CBJx614]

Critical!

And before that..

 

[MoeBartoli]

Dobber Prospects has been counting down organization strengths. Columbus was posted today, coming in at fifth.

They are correctly big fans of Mateychuk and Ivanov. They also agree that this prospect pool might end up with a crabs-in-a-bucket problem. Either way, they say it will be fascinating to watch.

Thanks for posting. Odd that they considered the two not rated marks for Voronkov as zeros dropping his average to just above 5 when otherwise he’d have been at 7 or just shy. Good scale otherwise (though I’d have Malatesta higher).

 

[stevo61]

Huge game for Mateychuk and the Warriors tonight

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[stevo61]

He'll be 22 when the contract is up, sounds about perfect to me.