Prospect Info: CBJ Prospect Thread X
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CBJ Board 2019 Prospect Rankings
I was looking up last year's prospect rankings for whenever we do 2020 and came across this:
For our purposes, Elvis was no longer a prospect, but I think our rankings were a bit better. I'd say we rated Gavrikov much better than Pronman (10th lol) as well as Peeke (13th??). We probably slept a bit on Voronkov and Marchenko.
I was looking up last year's prospect rankings for whenever we do 2020 and came across this:
For our purposes, Elvis was no longer a prospect, but I think our rankings were a bit better. I'd say we rated Gavrikov much better than Pronman (10th lol) as well as Peeke (13th??). We probably slept a bit on Voronkov and Marchenko.
Doggy
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Thanks D&S. I think that chart is a great example that nobody is going to get every ranking right. Pronman had Gavrikov 10 and Peeke 13 where one is now entrenched as a 2nd pairing d-man and the other one looks to be at least an NHL d-man and perhaps a 2nd pairing d-man when he hits his Peeke.
Its why I am not sweating his mediocre evaluation of Chinakhov.
The Blue Jackets have a very interesting connection to Siberia. The team has a great group of Russian prospects, and all four of them hail from Siberia, despite Siberia having only 22% of the Russian population.
Chinakhov - Omsk
Marchenko - Barnaul
Tarasov - Novokuznetsk
Voronkov - Angarsk (near Irkutsk)
Not only that, Bobrovsky is Siberian, from Novokuznetsk, and Panarin is from the outskirts of Chelyabinsk, just inside the Asian border. You can say that Siberians have been very good for this franchise. Even recent signee Grigorenko is from Siberia, born in the Far East city of Khabarovsk. The two big busts - Zherdev and Filatov - were both European. Though to be fair to Europeans, I must mention that Gavrikov and Tyutin are also from that continent.
Chinakhov - Omsk
Marchenko - Barnaul
Tarasov - Novokuznetsk
Voronkov - Angarsk (near Irkutsk)
Not only that, Bobrovsky is Siberian, from Novokuznetsk, and Panarin is from the outskirts of Chelyabinsk, just inside the Asian border. You can say that Siberians have been very good for this franchise. Even recent signee Grigorenko is from Siberia, born in the Far East city of Khabarovsk. The two big busts - Zherdev and Filatov - were both European. Though to be fair to Europeans, I must mention that Gavrikov and Tyutin are also from that continent.
Columbus Jack
He's from Columbus
Interesting insights, I look at Marchenko and I just think Kucherov where Chinakhov has more of a Ovi flair, obviously not saying they will be either of those players just play styles to me
Doggy
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Irkutsk? I am invading Irkutsk from Kamchatka! Man I loved RISK!
You forgot Arty from Yaroslavl (European part) and Svitov (Omsk)
neelynugs
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how do you see the top 10 right now? i love marchenko by the way, very impressive prospect.
was hoping bruins would take him.
Byrral
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Great question. Depends on the criteria you're looking for. Who is considered a prospect and what the voting criteria? For example I believe that Texier, Bemstrom and Gavroikov are still prospects (none have played 82 games in the NHL) although they may have graduated according your criteria. Secondly in last years poll Marchenko wasn't even available to vote on until poll #5 and he was passed over in poll #4 for prospects such as Veini Vehvilainen and Trey Fix-Wolanski. That's not a knock on those prospects or the process of how the polls are chosen. Just pointing out the board voting criteria from last year.
I'm not as versed on prospects like many around here but I have liked Marchenko as a prospect since he was drafted, There were 3 of us who voted him as our 5th rated prospect last season. Would I have have ranked him 4th over Foudy last season (who I voted for in poll #4) I'm not sure. Just pointing out he wasn't available as a choice for me until the 5th poll.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
I know you said it's not a knock, but after the first poll, the newly-added player is by board vote. Thus, this language from last year's first poll:
The first five was hard, I thought. Three obvious choices from among last year's initial five, then I added Bemstrom even though he was lower in our rankings last year, and Peeke, even though he was below Marchenko in our vote as well. If you guys like Kirill or one of the goalies, vote to add them and fix my mistake.
But really this is just a good opportunity as any to let the board know we're going to start this year's polling on Monday. There's a little clean-up to do on the list and a decision on who are the first five, but other than that, everybody's favorite offseason exercise (and by favorite, I mean favorite to complain about) will soon be here.
We'll be doing the 2020 Prospect Rankings soon, so we can see how that plays out. I haven't settled on a top 10 yet, but...
Top tier (3): Foudy, Peeke, Marchenko
Second tier (2): Chinakhov, Tarasov
From there, it gets a little weird because people may value upside over a known quantity (thinking of someone like Stenlund here, who may have a niche 4th line / PP specialist type role in the NHL).
So then, it's sort of like a "low ceiling, high floor" kind of tier, which might mix in with the tier below (3, maybe 4): Stenlund, Vehvilainen, Voronkov, maybe Kivlenieks
Then it's mostly younger guys, a little less proven who maybe have upside but could also bust (4) : Hjorth, Berni, Fix-Wolansky, Pyythia
That's just my view - I'm probably forgetting someone, somewhere. There's also a tier of guys with some NHL experience but seem to be "career AHLers" for now, and not sure how I value that (in relation to the 2019/2020 draftees not listed) - Carlsson, Sherwood, MacInnis, Thurkauf. There are also a couple undrafted signees that I have no idea about and need to read up on.
Byrral
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Yes. To be clear that was not a criticism in any way of the process. Transparency is important if everyones definition of what a prospect is is different. Thanks for clearing that up.
Doggy
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I think the criteria for who qualifies as a prospect is harder than usual this year since last season was not a full season.
- I hardly think Gavrikov qualifies as a prospect anymore because he is entrenched as our second pair d-man and had been all of last season plus the playoffs. He's an established NHLer already.
- I tend to lean towards no for Tex because I think he has solidified a spot as well and only missed games last year for injury issues.
- Bemmer was in and out of the lineup for performance reasons so I say he is still a prospect.
- Foudy is a prospect despite the fact it ill be hard for him to not make the club this year. He played in the playoffs but he is hardly established in any way.
pled
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just use old hockey future criteria ?
Gav isn't a prospect.
Foundy is.
Bem and Tex is up to the leader of whoever make the list if they consider them roster lock or not.
NHL Prospect Criteria - Hockey's Future
my prospect list for vote would be:
G: Tarasov, Thome, Veini
D: Berni, Ole, Carlsson, Christiansen, Hjorth, Johannesson, Knazko, Peeke, Stucker,
F: Angle, Chinakhov, TFW, Foudy, Howarth, Karlberg, Marchenko, Pu, Pyyhtia, Sheerwood Stenlund, Thurkauf, Voronkov
+Bem/Tex if you fell like it
Gav isn't a prospect.
Foundy is.
Bem and Tex is up to the leader of whoever make the list if they consider them roster lock or not.
NHL Prospect Criteria - Hockey's Future
my prospect list for vote would be:
G: Tarasov, Thome, Veini
D: Berni, Ole, Carlsson, Christiansen, Hjorth, Johannesson, Knazko, Peeke, Stucker,
F: Angle, Chinakhov, TFW, Foudy, Howarth, Karlberg, Marchenko, Pu, Pyyhtia, Sheerwood Stenlund, Thurkauf, Voronkov
+Bem/Tex if you fell like it
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pled
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since the draft chinakhov is 1g 1a in 4 games, 15:42min -03 0pim 10sog 1hit 1bls
kinda worse than his 4 game previous to the draft but still not bad.
for comparison 4 game before draft : 4g 0a 16:05 min +-0 2pim 8sog 3hits 1bls
Marchenko last 4: 3g 1a 15:25min -01 2pim 8sog 4hits 2bls
Voronkov last 4: 0g 1a 15:10min +-0 4pim 9sog 10hits 1bls
both are 1 year older than Chinakhov and Marchenko was down in MHL before those 4 games. I guess it's harder to get a roster spot on SKA
kinda worse than his 4 game previous to the draft but still not bad.
for comparison 4 game before draft : 4g 0a 16:05 min +-0 2pim 8sog 3hits 1bls
Marchenko last 4: 3g 1a 15:25min -01 2pim 8sog 4hits 2bls
Voronkov last 4: 0g 1a 15:10min +-0 4pim 9sog 10hits 1bls
both are 1 year older than Chinakhov and Marchenko was down in MHL before those 4 games. I guess it's harder to get a roster spot on SKA
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Avangard Omsk signed none other than Nail Yakupov today, Chinakhov will have some help in prepping for post game interviews
Don't worry about it. Lists are subjective, people can be kindly reminded to chill tfo.
What the actual f***!!! No Voronkov in top 5? Do you even watch hockey???
So in all seriousness I would put Voronkov ahead of Tarasov, but it's all conjecture and kind of cool that we come up with different lists. Blind men find an elephant...
It's a fun challenge figuring out how to compare Foudy to the Russian prospects. Here's the one tournament where he squared off with Marchenko and Voronkov, last year's World Juniors. There's the prelim game and this, the gold medal game:
Ten seconds in, Voronkov absolutely crunches some kid. Man among boys out there. Foudy then hits the post on his first shift a minute or so later. Marchenko ended up with plenty of scoring chances throughout the game.
You can see some of what we know about these kids through this game alone: Foudy is a big threat on the PK. He's not a good puckhandler and not a PP guy, but he makes crafty plays and breaks open the D with his speed, which helps his linemates a lot. He won't be a big scorer but he's a lock to fit in the middle of an NHL lineup, he's a very useful player. Voronkov is also very useful in different ways. He levels guys, he's screening the goalie frequently, 5v5 and PP, and he's a good PK guy as well. Torts would love him. Marchenko makes something out of nothing, he's a rare talent.
Ten seconds in, Voronkov absolutely crunches some kid. Man among boys out there. Foudy then hits the post on his first shift a minute or so later. Marchenko ended up with plenty of scoring chances throughout the game.
You can see some of what we know about these kids through this game alone: Foudy is a big threat on the PK. He's not a good puckhandler and not a PP guy, but he makes crafty plays and breaks open the D with his speed, which helps his linemates a lot. He won't be a big scorer but he's a lock to fit in the middle of an NHL lineup, he's a very useful player. Voronkov is also very useful in different ways. He levels guys, he's screening the goalie frequently, 5v5 and PP, and he's a good PK guy as well. Torts would love him. Marchenko makes something out of nothing, he's a rare talent.
Putting this here to stay on topic:
I think they could be a line. Voronkov isn't the same kind of high-end skill but I think he'd complement Marchenko and Chinakhov well. If it's unlikely it's unlikely more because there is no point in putting three young players on the same line for little reason. It helps to speak the same language but we need them all able to speak basic English when they arrive or we have bigger problems.
They haven't played together before except for maybe a few games where Chinakhov played on the U20 international squad last year. He didn't make the WJC tournament, where the older guys Marchenko and Voronkov did play together. They connected on some plays on the same line actually, though they were back to separate lines by the final games. They all came up on separate Siberian youth clubs and joined separate KHL franchises. They're all late-bloomers and weren't the top guys for international play until recently.
I think they could be a line. Voronkov isn't the same kind of high-end skill but I think he'd complement Marchenko and Chinakhov well. If it's unlikely it's unlikely more because there is no point in putting three young players on the same line for little reason. It helps to speak the same language but we need them all able to speak basic English when they arrive or we have bigger problems.
They haven't played together before except for maybe a few games where Chinakhov played on the U20 international squad last year. He didn't make the WJC tournament, where the older guys Marchenko and Voronkov did play together. They connected on some plays on the same line actually, though they were back to separate lines by the final games. They all came up on separate Siberian youth clubs and joined separate KHL franchises. They're all late-bloomers and weren't the top guys for international play until recently.
pled
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I think the top4/6 is pretty clear to everyone as Chinakhov, Foudy, Machenko, Peeke +Bem/Tex if we include them. it will be the next one that will probably be much more debatable. my pick would be VV so we have lots of different opinion here for the 5/7th best prospect.
pled
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3*
2 of them on the PP gosh if him and Marchenko can bring that PP power to the jackets it would be a dream
Yakupov scored in his first game too not that I care he kinda steal some ice time from our boy but if chinakhov play over 15m everynight at least I'll be ok with that
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