Confirmed Signing with Link: [CBJ] F Sean Monahan signs with the Blue Jackets (5 years, $5.5M AAV)

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Indy18

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Aug 17, 2023
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I think it's a reasonably good contract, I mean the term and money seem manageable to me taking the timeline into account. Sure 2 or 3 years would've been better, but I don't think 5 is too much of a problem even if things don't go optimally, as long as they go reasonably well. The question is if it's a contract for the right player, which I suppose is largely down to his health.
Decent question if you wanted the Defensive Winnberg or the offensive Monahan but we did need center depth and also have some of you never played sports? Do you know what happens when you throw players who are not ready yet for responsibilities even if they have the potential? Show me a player who failed because they cooked in the AHL too long or didn't get first line minutes straight out of the draft. Hell more 1st Round QBs in the NFL who come straight out of College (at age 22 mind you) fail when thrown straight on a bad team without support than those who hold a clipboard getting mentored before taking on the shoulders of the team. For every Peyton Manning there are 4-5 Ryan Leafs.

Also really you think a coach won't give Fantilli first line minutes when he "earns it" over Monahan in a year or two? Hell most of the complaint with Blue Jacket fans right now is not having a Dman who can challenge Jiricek to a spot at this time for him to "earn it".
 
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CBJx614

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Again, you show your fundamental misunderstanding of these concepts and what's going on.

Yes, ANA wanted to limit Carlsson total games played so he could spend some time literally building his body in the gym and not getting broken down. But when he was in the lineup, he played a ton in all key situations. He wasn't blocked by anyone. They gave him the keys and let him have touches as the de facto 1C, 1PP, high leverage situations.
Majority of rookies coming into the league can't handle that at 18/19 years old. And most coaches are going to make their players earn that time and not be given the keys right away. The reason it was such a big deal was because it was such a different approach than how majority of teams handle young players


And later on in the season, they essentially took him off the "snap count" and he played regularly. He was playing 18 minutes per night, and 15 minutes per night at ES, which was second on the team among forwards in ES TOI per game. He played a lot more per game than Fantilli did last season.
I don't think you'll find a single jackets fan who wasn't questioning Vincents lack of trust of the kids on his roster, it was a major issue particularly with the Russians. There was a stretch where they shouldve have been getting thrown on the ice in clutch situations but Vincent just continued to throw Jenner and Johnny on ice, no matter how shit they looked up to that point.
This is obviously not the plan when bringing in Monahan to, by your own admission, to "get Gaudreau going". By your own words, Monahan will get the key offensive minutes. That blocks Fantilli from those moments.
Getting Gaudreau going is but one part of it. And it's not like Gaudreau and Monahan are locked into the best offensive opportunities and PP1 time for the entirety of their contract. Nor does that mean that there isn't room or a spot for Fantilli on the wing or on that powerplay.


Any coach worth a damn is going to play the hot hand and shocker, it's possible to have more than one line producing. It's about knowing your matchups and knowing which players/lines you can trust in certain situations.

This changes game by game and by the end of the season it's entirely possible that Fantilli has taken that next step. Or it's entirely possible that he's struggling and he needed some insolation.

Take the L man. Your own example you raised is a counter-argument against you and largely supports what I'm saying. You've shown you fundamentally don't understand what you're talking about.
Think about this from a Columbus standpoint for a second. This town has seen kid after kid after kid after kid come to the NHL at 18/19 years old, only to have a season or two of promise before never living up to expectations and then being traded or ending up as bust down the line.

We are in absolutely no rush to throw another promising prospect into the flames right away, Fantilli is not McDavid or Crosby. He's a good prospect, he's going to take time to develop.



And I've yet to see anyone make a valid case how this is a bad contract if he's producing similar to last year. The going rate in the NHL is more than 1M / 10ish points scored. About double that if you are a strong defensive player.

If 100pt top tier players are starting to see 11, 12, 13M+ deals, a 50 pt player getting a 5M deal seems right in line with that. Is it a year or two too long? Yeah sure, it's not perfect but no UFA deal is.

This is far from a hindrance or road block that you make it out to be.

But Monahan isn't defensively capable, so he doesn't check that box. And I am unconvinced by arguments that Wennberg doesn't check the leadership box. The team has no defensive structure and so that's a thing that needs to be learned, and yet we just committed to a mentor that exacerbates that problem rather than being someone capable of helping solve it.
That's up to having a competent coach to put the proper systems in place. Monahan and Gaudreau likely shouldn't be the ones taking defensive zone and PK draws and starts.

Yeah Wennberg helps defensively, but he doesn't help our lack of goal scorers. Gaudreau and Fantilli didn't mesh well last year and Wennberg doesn't seem the type that would help Johnny either. So now we're stuck with Jenner being the defacto 1C again.

Wennberg also hasn't had a single season with a FO% above 50%, Monahan has only had 1 season under 50%(49) and over the last handful of years has essentially been at 55%
 

Viqsi

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So no, is the answer. Got it! Thank you for conceding and admitting I am correct.
It's more that whether they did or not is not actually relevant to the argument, because it doesn't actually ascertain other, more likely possibilities such as whether or not or not the rule of thumb still applies to a literally generational prospect, or whether or not Chicago attempted to get such a player and failed, or any number of other, far more probable outcomes than "you are right and get to be overbearingly smug about it".
 

bossram

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Indeed

It's more that whether they did or not is not actually relevant to the argument, because it doesn't actually ascertain other, more likely possibilities such as whether or not or not the rule of thumb still applies to a literally generational prospect, or whether or not Chicago attempted to get such a player and failed, or any number of other, far more probable outcomes than "you are right and get to be overbearingly smug about it".
I'll be smug when I'm right and people are trying to tell me I'm wrong, just like another poster with the Leo Carlsson example.

Give that Chicago has largely been successful with adding many other mid-tier veterans to insulate their lineup, who critically are not offensive centers, I think the answer is fairly obvious that 1) They did not add a player to limit Bedard's exposure to offensive minutes, and 2) They did not attempt to do so.
 

blueandgoldguy

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Bad contract. 5 years for a guy who has one decent season in the last 5 and has been injured for much of the previous 3 seasons. 3 years would have been more appropriate as that is more than enough time for Columbus' blue chip prospects to finish their development as top-3/top-6 players. This smells like Nathan Horton all over again.

It seems like a most big contracts Columbus has dished out have been a disaster - Gaudreau should be producing around 90 - 100 points per season - nowhere close. Laine prior to taking leave should have been averaging 40 goals a season - nowhere close. Severson should play like a top pairing D - nowhere close. Werenski should be a top-10 d-men in the league - nowhere close. What you end up with is a franchise that is among the league's worst the past 4 seasons. I expect some improvement in 2024/25 but I don't expect Monahan to be a big difference maker....when he is playing that is.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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Bad contract. 5 years for a guy who has one decent season in the last 5 and has been injured for much of the previous 3 seasons. 3 years would have been more appropriate as that is more than enough time for Columbus' blue chip prospects to finish their development as top-3/top-6 players. This smells like Nathan Horton all over again.

It seems like a most big contracts Columbus has dished out have been a disaster - Gaudreau should be producing around 90 - 100 points per season - nowhere close. Laine prior to taking leave should have been averaging 40 goals a season - nowhere close. Severson should play like a top pairing D - nowhere close. Werenski should be a top-10 d-men in the league - nowhere close. What you end up with is a franchise that is among the league's worst the past 4 seasons. I expect some improvement in 2024/25 but I don't expect Monahan to be a big difference maker....when he is playing that is.
How exactly do you expect Gaudreau to put up 90-100 points with his supporting cast?
 

Xoggz22

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I'll be smug when I'm right and people are trying to tell me I'm wrong, just like another poster with the Leo Carlsson example.
The good news is something tells me you are right even when you are wrong so you can always be happy and sit on that perch. What you are discussing is your opinion, not a certainty. Does every person that needs/wants to lose 50 pounds lose it the same way? Yes or No?
 
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Xoggz22

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Bad contract. 5 years for a guy who has one decent season in the last 5 and has been injured for much of the previous 3 seasons. 3 years would have been more appropriate as that is more than enough time for Columbus' blue chip prospects to finish their development as top-3/top-6 players. This smells like Nathan Horton all over again.

It seems like a most big contracts Columbus has dished out have been a disaster - Gaudreau should be producing around 90 - 100 points per season - nowhere close. Laine prior to taking leave should have been averaging 40 goals a season - nowhere close. Severson should play like a top pairing D - nowhere close. Werenski should be a top-10 d-men in the league - nowhere close. What you end up with is a franchise that is among the league's worst the past 4 seasons. I expect some improvement in 2024/25 but I don't expect Monahan to be a big difference maker....when he is playing that is.
Serious question... do you think this contract matters or has any bearing on the impact to the team in years 4 and 5? Personally, I don't. If he's injured often, yeah, it sucks. The bet here is that the 2.5 years he spent injured was corrected as evidenced by his 83 game regular season. We'll see. If he's a 60 point player for the next 3 years, even 4, this contract will be in line with other 60 point players, maybe even below market value. Regardless, he can be moved to wing, dropped in the lineup, bought out or traded. There are options from my view. Maybe it doesn't work but it is a need in Columbus, he's a good mentor, he should be a 55-60 point guy (maybe more with Gaudreau?) and can help an anemic PP along with being excellent in the dot.

No, it's not perfect, but it's far from the train wreck people want to make it out to be.
 

bossram

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The good news is something tells me you are right even when you are wrong so you can always be happy and sit on that perch. What you are discussing is your opinion, not a certainty. Does every person that needs/wants to lose 50 pounds lose it the same way? Yes or No?
I mean, this analogy doesn't make sense.

Something like Leo Carlsson's usage was factual knowledge. His ATOI and ES TOI per game were very high. The other poster was saying he was sheltered. He was not. Adam Fantilli played less per game and got less opportunity. These are facts.

This is more like me saying a guy that lost 50 pounds, lost 50 pounds, and someone else says he didn't and it doesn't count because he was on keto.
 

bleedgreen

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5.5 isn’t exactly franchise crippling if it doesn’t work out. He’ll be a solid center for most of the deal even if he isn’t that productive.

So much clowning of contracts, I thought teams were going to go huge with AAV’s and it didn’t happen. A lot of middling players got raises into the range where better players used to live. With the cap going up and everyone fighting for depth, this isn’t that big a deal. Inflation was coming no matter what, clowning every team that signed someone because they participated is a waste of time.
 

ViD

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Because he won't be. This isn't 6 years ago. This isn't the 2018-19 Monahan and Gaudreau.

Monahan got dumped because of this type of contract, and here is a team signing him to it again! CBJ does what they do. CBJ fans jumped on me because I criticized their Provorov and Gudbranson moves and...I was right. They were unnecessary, overpaid, and just gunked up the roster and cap sheet. Will be the same with Monahan.

Monahan's defensive impacts have been very bad the last few seasons. His mobility is not there. At best, he can be a "bad team 2C". So I guess if CBJ wants to continue to be bad, mission accomplished.
Did you completely miss his last year where he scored 60 points ? That’s exactly 2C numbers
 

bossram

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Did you completely miss his last year where he scored 60 points ? That’s exactly 2C numbers
I mean, if you ignore that my main criticism of Monahan was that he's abysmal defensively. Okay, he got 60 points playing for a bad team and then went nowhere with Winnipeg, didn't improve them, and they got blasted away by COL. Yay!

Yes, he is a "bad team" 2C. Which is what I said before.
 
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bringbacktheskate604

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Jul 20, 2022
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But Lindholm for 7 x $7.75 is a great deal. I would hate to venture into that thread. I'm sure that deal is getting skewered. I mean he scored all of 44 pts last year and looked like complete dog shit for 2 teams, but that deal is certainly going to age well because he's younger... oh wait... what? He's also 29?

Yeah, yeah, I get it. Boston isn't Columbus and they have a proven roster but let's be real... that contract is brutal and he doesn't have an injury history to fall back on as an excuse.
As a nucks fan I was shocked at how poor he looked. I really thought he would excel with JT or EP.
He was good with Garland in the playoffs but it seems everyone looks better with Garland.

As for Sean the money is nothing, the term is a bit because he's only useful in the top six. End of the day insulating kids is usually the right thing to do.
 
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bringbacktheskate604

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Because he's a significantly better overall center


Lindholm is a better and more productive player, one season doesn't change that.

Then don't sign a center. Some of the best moves are the ones you don't make. Do you really think Monahan is the difference between making or missing the playoffs?
Lindholm has been trending down for more than last season. In fact his one big season sticks out like an outlier.
He was absolutely shit here in every facet during the regular season. He was good in the playoffs but like Zadorov and his own playoffs, I don't think that's representive of how they will perform over these contracts.
 

Dead Coyote

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Awfully long contract but I don't hate the money. He's still worth that if healthy. Could also see him matching up really well with Gaudreau again and CBJ needs centers like a desert needs water. Hopefully Laine and Fantilli/Jenner get more time together this season. Think rolling your top 3 centers as Monahan - Jenner - Fantilli is perfect for right now.
 

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