CBJ Board Other Sports Thread: Part VIII

[ratm5]

Unfortunately, winning isn't all that matters. Its become about Style Points now. At the core, you need to win, but winning alone won't net you the result you need. The days of eeking out 4 or 6 point wins against competition are coming to an end, you need to have huge blowouts and "Statement" wins to keep yourself in the minds of the media, who have fallen in love with the fast paced offenses. Winning is now not a desired result, its an expectation. Its not "I hope we beat Northwestern", its "I wonder how many we hang on Northwestern this week"

ESPN has the rights to the College Football playoff, they, and CBS, carry SEC games regularly, despite the committee being independent that chooses this thing, don't think that the Juggernaut that is ESPN doesn't have a vested interest in proping up who they are in bed with. The SEC Network is being delivered to homes via ESPN, they are partners. I know Jim Tressel still has a lot of support in his town, maybe more so than Urban at this point, but in order to "Keep up with the Joneses" OSU needs to be thinking beyond the win.

College Football has become a beauty contest. Its the reason NO ONE talks about AJ McCarron in Alabama, he's not as sexy a passer as the kid in Georgia and he's not the media darling/trainwreck that the kid from A&M is. Simply winning isn't enough. OSU is unbeaten in 18 straight, and they will likely drop in the polls after this.

The reason I said that was because that dudes statement was foolish and followed along with espns line of thinking.

 

[pete goegan]

The reason I said that was because that dudes statement was foolish and followed along with espns line of thinking.

No, the dude's statement was his (my) opinion, based on watching football for longer than Mark May has been alive. I'm an OSU fan, but not oblivious to their faults. As for winning being the only important thing, that's not true in a system based on votes and perception. If and when college football has a true playoff (and OSU plays a respectable non-league schedule) that may change. Until then, pulling out a late, exciting win over an under-rated Northwestern team will not be of great benefit to the Buckeye's poll spot.

That, too, is this dude's opinion.

 

[ratm5]

No, the dude's statement was his (my) opinion, based on watching football for longer than Mark May has been alive. I'm an OSU fan, but not oblivious to their faults. As for winning being the only important thing, that's not true in a systeIm based on votes and perception. If and when college football has a true playoff (and OSU plays a respectable non-league schedule) that may change. Until then, pulling out a late, exciting win over an under-rated Northwestern team will not be of great benefit to the Buckeye's poll spot.

That, too, is this dude's opinion.

im sorry if I offended you by calling you dude and thanks for educating me on how college football works. When OSU won in 2002 they destroyed every team that they played right. I refuse to believe that if we're undefeated at the end that we wont be playing for a national title.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Unfortunately, winning isn't all that matters. Its become about Style Points now. At the core, you need to win, but winning alone won't net you the result you need. The days of eeking out 4 or 6 point wins against competition are coming to an end, you need to have huge blowouts and "Statement" wins to keep yourself in the minds of the media, who have fallen in love with the fast paced offenses. Winning is now not a desired result, its an expectation. Its not "I hope we beat Northwestern", its "I wonder how many we hang on Northwestern this week"

ESPN has the rights to the College Football playoff, they, and CBS, carry SEC games regularly, despite the committee being independent that chooses this thing, don't think that the Juggernaut that is ESPN doesn't have a vested interest in proping up who they are in bed with. The SEC Network is being delivered to homes via ESPN, they are partners. I know Jim Tressel still has a lot of support in his town, maybe more so than Urban at this point, but in order to "Keep up with the Joneses" OSU needs to be thinking beyond the win.

College Football has become a beauty contest. Its the reason NO ONE talks about AJ McCarron in Alabama, he's not as sexy a passer as the kid in Georgia and he's not the media darling/trainwreck that the kid from A&M is. Simply winning isn't enough. OSU is unbeaten in 18 straight, and they will likely drop in the polls after this.

It's always been that way. Don't forget that it's only in the last 10-15 years that the mere option of seeing a bunch of games has become the norm, so before that, even people "in the know" were able to do little more than parse box scores and stat lines. I grew up with "The Game of the Week" featuring Grambling/Southern as often as seeing an actual important game; if someone wanted to see the OSU game, there was always the Sunday morning edited rebroadcast on PBS (channel 34).

The idea of some type of bias in favor of the SEC or Southern football in general is entirely a new phenomenon based on the last 10 years. There was a heavy Eastern and Midwestern bias for the entirety of college football history until around 2005, and the pre-BCS days and pre-Bowl Coalition days saw a lot of national championships being awarded to Midwestern or Eastern teams with worse records than SEC or Southern teams (like 1960, with 8-2 Minnesota taking the AP and UPI crowns over 10-0-1 Ole Miss).

 

[Mayor Bee]

im sorry if I offended you by calling you dude and thanks for educating me on how college football works. When OSU won in 2002 they destroyed every team that they played right. I refuse to believe that if we're undefeated at the end that we wont be playing for a national title.

In 2002, OSU struggled to beat Cincinnati 23-19, 3-9 Northwestern by a 27-16 score, 7-6 Wisconsin by a 19-14 score, Penn State 13-7, 6-6 Purdue by a 10-6 score, 5-7 Illinois by a 23-16 score, and Michigan 14-9.

They also avoided Iowa, who was also 8-0 in conference play and finished in the top 5 nationally.

 

[ratm5]

In 2002, OSU struggled to beat Cincinnati 23-19, 3-9 Northwestern by a 27-16 score, 7-6 Wisconsin by a 19-14 score, Penn State 13-7, 6-6 Purdue by a 10-6 score, 5-7 Illinois by a 23-16 score, and Michigan 14-9.

They also avoided Iowa, who was also 8-0 in conference play and finished in the top 5 nationally.

I know that they struggled with every team, that was my point.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I know that they struggled with every team, that was my point.

Well, we've heard since that night that the Miami team on the field is as good as the one from the year before, which is absurd and a point on how quickly and easily revisionist history takes hold. 2001 Miami was one of the greatest teams in history, but they lost a huge amount of talent from then to 2002 (both to graduation and early entry). And although the names are certainly impressive on the 2002 team, very few of those players were even close to developed.

It was basically a very young team, with several more experienced players as first-time starters who were inferior. Najeh Davenport was replaced by Kyle Cobia, Clinton Portis by a freshman Willis McGahee and Jarrett Payton, Bryant McKinnie (one of the greatest O-linemen in college history) by Carlos Joseph, and the entire secondary (one of the greatest collective secondaries in college history) by one that wasn't close to that. 2002 Miami allowed over twice as many points as 2001, they struggled more against worse teams than the year before, and so many people here are convinced that the Miami team on the field was the same or better than the year before.

 

[pete goegan]

im sorry if I offended you by calling you dude and thanks for educating me on how college football works. When OSU won in 2002 they destroyed every team that they played right. I refuse to believe that if we're undefeated at the end that we wont be playing for a national title.

I wasn't offended, I was amused. Refuse to believe whatever you want, but an undefeated OSU will not play in the NC if two of Clemson, Oregon, and Alabama are unbeaten. Were the perception of the Big Howevermany better or the Bucks schedule more impressive, that might not be the case. Sadly, that's the current reality. If the Bucks are one of only two, as they were in '02, then they probably will. And I hope the result will be the same. My opinion is no more valid than yours and I don't care if you agree or not, I was merely stating why I posted what I did.

I assumed you already knew how college football works, so no need to thank me.

 

[pete goegan]

... so many people here are convinced that the Miami team on the field was the same or better than the year before.

The only thing that matters is that they were the second best team on the field that night in Arizona.

 

[ratm5]

Well, we've heard since that night that the Miami team on the field is as good as the one from the year before, which is absurd and a point on how quickly and easily revisionist history takes hold. 2001 Miami was one of the greatest teams in history, but they lost a huge amount of talent from then to 2002 (both to graduation and early entry). And although the names are certainly impressive on the 2002 team, very few of those players were even close to developed.

It was basically a very young team, with several more experienced players as first-time starters who were inferior. Najeh Davenport was replaced by Kyle Cobia, Clinton Portis by a freshman Willis McGahee and Jarrett Payton, Bryant McKinnie (one of the greatest O-linemen in college history) by Carlos Joseph, and the entire secondary (one of the greatest collective secondaries in college history) by one that wasn't close to that. 2002 Miami allowed over twice as many points as 2001, they struggled more against worse teams than the year before, and so many people here are convinced that the Miami team on the field was the same or better than the year before.

I dont know why you posted all of that because my point was that OSU struggled with half of the teams that year and still made the national championship game.

 

[ratm5]

I wasn't offended, I was amused. Refuse to believe whatever you want, but an undefeated OSU will not play in the NC if two of Clemson, Oregon, and Alabama are unbeaten. Were the perception of the Big Howevermany better or the Bucks schedule more impressive, that might not be the case. Sadly, that's the current reality. If the Bucks are one of only two, as they were in '02, then they probably will. And I hope the result will be the same. My opinion is no more valid than yours and I don't care if you agree or not, I was merely stating why I posted what I did.

I assumed you already knew how college football works, so no need to thank me.

Thanks for allowing me to believe what I want. We both want OSU to win so I'll leave it at that.

 

[ratm5]

The only thing that matters is that they were the second best team on the field that night in Arizona.

Agreed. One of greatest sports nights that I've witnessed.

 

[pete goegan]

Thanks for allowing me to believe what I want. We both want OSU to win so I'll leave it at that.

I'm not allowing, I'm acknowledging.

 

[EspenK]

I dont know why you posted all of that because my point was that OSU struggled with half of the teams that year and still made the national championship game.

Mayor is a man of many words.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

So, no one but me thinks Ohio State should move up based on "style points"?

They won't, because voters rarely reevaluate their rankings with any degree of detail. They prefer to reinforce their own preconceptions.

 

[Sore Loser]

So, no one but me thinks Ohio State should move up based on "style points"?

They won't, because voters rarely reevaluate their rankings with any degree of detail. They prefer to reinforce their own preconceptions.

I think OSU has been (somewhat) underrated all season long in the polls. I think it gets overlooked that in the games that they "should" have blown out the opposition, they were without some very key players, including the guy who was the standout MVP of last night's game.

That being said, I don't see them leapfrogging either Oregon or Alabama, and so for a shot at the National Championship, they will have to hope that one or both of them loses a game before the end of the season. Really, it's a moot argument ... we're kidding ourselves if we think the polls will ever show THE Ohio State University ahead of either of those schools, in the scenario that they have matching records.

 

[Viqsi]

Well, the poll results this week were most agreeable. Ohio State didn't slip at all (in points or in place), and Northwestern had a very slight fall (three places). Almost like they're being judged by the same standard as other college football teams in other conferences.

It's enough to make one wonder that there just might be hope after all.

 

[FANonymous]

Well, the poll results this week were most agreeable. Ohio State didn't slip at all (in points or in place), and Northwestern had a very slight fall (three places). Almost like they're being judged by the same standard as other college football teams in other conferences.

It's enough to make one wonder that there just might be hope after all.

Clearly they've been monitoring our discussion and are trying to throw us off the trail. Look for a drop spread out over the next 4 weeks.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Well, the poll results this week were most agreeable. Ohio State didn't slip at all (in points or in place), and Northwestern had a very slight fall (three places). Almost like they're being judged by the same standard as other college football teams in other conferences.

Which is completely unjustified, considering how brutal the B1G is.

 

[Viqsi]

Which is completely unjustified, considering how brutal the B1G is.

Cry me a river, hater.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Cry me a river, hater.

Crying? In football? Like this?

 

[Crede777]

I can't really disagree with OSU being pegged as 4th. In my opinion, they're a top-3 team if Braxton Miller is healthy and on his game. With Guiton (who is still very good) or an off-night Miller, OSU may be more 5th-8th in the nation.

Really what it boils down to is a team with Braxton Miller isn't the same as one without him and so far what we've seen is largely one without him. A very good team, but not quite elite.

 

[EspenK]

To me their defense is suspect, although it was instrumental in turning the game around Saturday night. I'm not sure they could withstand 'Bama or Oregon. They don't tackle well and their pass defense has been terrible. The offense is okay but I tend to think that Miller is still a bit hobbled. Right now I'd say 4th or 5th is a fair ranking based on their performance.

 

[Mayor Bee]

In order by current BCS computer rankings:

t-1 - Alabama
t-1 - Stanford
3 - Florida State
4 - Clemson
5 - Oklahoma
6 - Georgia
7 - Oregon
8 - Ohio State
9 - UCLA
10 - LSU

 

[EspenK]

Not sure where you got those rankings. Guy on cbssports projects them here:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rankings/bcs

1st official don't come out till Oct 20.

The CBS guy projects Bucks 5th.