Prospect Info: Cayden Lindstrom

[stevo61]

We've been in the top 5 in man games lost to injury for the last 2 years, top 10 for the last 4. We've had major issues with high profile recurring player injuries dating back to the disaster that was Nathan Horton and continuing through Jenner, Dubinsky, Laine, etc.

I tend not to believe that our players are just a lot more fragile/less lucky then other teams and I put that failure on the medical team and their evaluation. If there is one bright spot I see in this Lindstrom situation, its that the team actually appears to be exercising a true abundance of caution being with his treatment and evaluation. If he is going to recover back to 100% this is the way to do it, it is just the fact that every piece of news has been negative that makes me doubt that his recovery is likely.

Some players we were aware were more injury prone like Laine, Horton,etc. Some players who were known to not miss much time like Provorov and Gaudreau also didn't miss time here. I'd be all for a tough evaluation of the training staff but the medical staff is a pretty tricky one. Strength and conditioning deficiencies can definitely lead to more injury. On the medical side though that's a tough gig. Some of your evaluation comes from what the player tells you and some players will say some pretty stupid things. Look at Monahan in Calgary, that was a massive fail all around. Dude was barely able to move and had his game fall off a cliff but neither he or the team did what needed to be done. There is still the old school mentality in some of these guys who will try to play through anything and not be open about what is going on. There are some more modern guys who will get pulled from a game a period in when their old team is mean to them though.

What have been some of our teams common issues? Shoulder, ankles and oblique? That's where I'd start. Some of them are freak incidents but some of that is worth looking into. Not sure the medical staff is the right direction to point the finger though

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I knew there was something weird earlier in the year when Waddell didn’t sign him. But then he spoke about it and said he’d get it done in/after training camp. Then that came…no ELC.

Waddell is protecting himself from the asset in case it doesn’t work out and we can recoup a 2nd round pick when his rights expire.

If this is what happens, drafting this kid is a massive misstep by Waddell.

 

[majormajor]

I knew there was something weird earlier in the year when Waddell didn’t sign him. But then he spoke about it and said he’d get it done in/after training camp. Then that came…no ELC.

Waddell is protecting himself from the asset in case it doesn’t work out and we can recoup a 2nd round pick when his rights expire.

If this is what happens, drafting this kid is a massive misstep by Waddell.

That's part of why I'm taking a pessimistic view here. They seemed to learn something scary between the draft and camp.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

That's part of why I'm taking a pessimistic view here. They seemed to learn something scary between the draft and camp.

this whole board spent years saying that the GM was rushing players into action.

now the new GM picks a guy in the top five after doing a ton of background on the medicals and decides to take a cautious approach with an 18-year-old prospect who already had a longer development path and everyone thinks that it's the end of the world.

lindstrom only played about 40 games at center in medicine hat last year. he has a ton of developmental runway. they can take their time and get him to 100% before signing him or sending him back.

he'll likely play 10-20 games this year, then play a full season in medicine hat next year, then some AHL time. there's no rush with him the same way there was with a johnson or fantilli.

if they end up picking in a similar range this year (unlikely but not impossible) i'd expect to see that player in the NHL before lindstrom, but i have a better long-term projection on lindstrom than anyone in the top five of this year's draft outside schaefer.

 

[majormajor]

he'll likely play 10-20 games this year, then play a full season in medicine hat next year, then some AHL time. there's no rush with him the same way there was with a johnson or fantilli.

Playing 10-20 this year would be fine with me. If he's healthy enough to do that then we're good. But that health level is what is at question here, you can't just assume it away.

i have a better long-term projection on lindstrom than anyone in the top five of this year's draft outside schaefer.

Same, or at least I did. You have to throw that out the window if the player can't play.

 

[Doggy]

this whole board spent years saying that the GM was rushing players into action.

now the new GM picks a guy in the top five after doing a ton of background on the medicals and decides to take a cautious approach with an 18-year-old prospect who already had a longer development path and everyone thinks that it's the end of the world.

lindstrom only played about 40 games at center in medicine hat last year. he has a ton of developmental runway. they can take their time and get him to 100% before signing him or sending him back.

he'll likely play 10-20 games this year, then play a full season in medicine hat next year, then some AHL time. there's no rush with him the same way there was with a johnson or fantilli.

if they end up picking in a similar range this year (unlikely but not impossible) i'd expect to see that player in the NHL before lindstrom, but i have a better long-term projection on lindstrom than anyone in the top five of this year's draft outside schaefer.

Maybe I am confusing majormajor's thinking and yours. I assume we all understand signing a kid to his ELC doesn't mean he's playing in the NHL right away. Nolan Lalonde, Luca Pinelli, and Luca Marelli have all signed ELCs but none are coming to Columbus this season and likely not next year either. In fact, every other kid (except one) drafted in the first round of the 2024 draft (out of Canadian Juniors) has signed an ELC. I don't think major was suggesting GMDW was planning to rush Lindstrom's development in any way whatsoever but if he were not injured it is very safe to assume he'd have already signed his ELC. I think the concern here is that if GMDW is stalling on getting Lindstrom signed to an ELC perhaps he is less confident about the injury.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Playing 10-20 this year would be fine with me. If he's healthy enough to do that then we're good. But that health level is what is at question here, you can't just assume it away.

despite what a random college kid who blogs about the islanders says on twitter, i'd be shocked if he doesn't play in medicine hat before the season's over.

Same, or at least I did. You have to throw that out the window if the player can't play.

it's never ideal for a prospect to miss a year of development but i don't think missing his D+1 is as bad as missing (up to) a year farther along the development path.

dumais missed most of last year (age-20 season) and has missed a big chunk of this year. so he'll get thrown right into the AHL, where he's at a huge size disadvantage, without a chance to knock off the rust that's been accumulating for the last year, and will have to acclimate to the speed and physicality of the pro game.

lindstrom is still 18 (turns 19 a month from today) and will get to go back to medicine hat fully healthy, while being bigger/stronger/faster than his competition, and knock off the rust there while working on playing center full-time. then in 26-27 he'll likely go the mateychuk route of playing in the AHL for a bit to acclimate to the pro game before coming up midseason.

there should be no rush to throw him back into the WHL just to play games this season if there's no expectation of him being in the NHL next season. get him healthy and let him cook for a bit.

Maybe I am confusing majormajor's thinking and yours. I assume we all understand signing a kid to his ELC doesn't mean he's playing in the NHL right away. Nolan Lalonde, Luca Pinelli, and Luca Marelli have all signed ELCs but none are coming to Columbus this season and likely not next year either. In fact, every other kid (except one) drafted in the first round of the 2024 draft (out of Canadian Juniors) has signed an ELC. I don't think major was suggesting GMDW was planning to rush Lindstrom's development in any way whatsoever but if he were not injured it is very safe to assume he'd have already signed his ELC. I think the concern here is that if GMDW is stalling on getting Lindstrom signed to an ELC perhaps he is less confident about the injury.

the ELC thing is a non-issue. the player hasn't been medically cleared to play games. there's no reason to sign him until that changes.

 

[Doggy]

...the ELC thing is a non-issue. the player hasn't been medically cleared to play games. there's no reason to sign him until that changes.

That's fine, I am simply saying that I thought you misunderstood major's comment regarding signing an ELC.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Xoggz22]

Stay true CBJ fans. Fun stuff. I guess that's what years of sucktitude gets you... I think I'll sit this one out and come back to hear everyone backpeddle when he's actually playing and make a determination if he's ruined or not.

 

[Xoggz22]

Unanticipated setbacks are bad for this team for two reasons. First, it's a setback which is by definition not ideal. Second, because it is unanticipated, it makes us ask if it should have been anticipated and the team simply got it wrong or if it truly was not able to be foreseen.

That said, with Lindstrom, I think his hockey career is still just beginning. From the reports, he's dealing with lingering pain which is an issue but not as severe an issue as if there was concern about re-injuring or further structural damage to his back. We will wait and see, but I'm still optimistic that he will be able to resume playing at some point. At that time we can reevaluate his ability.

Not being argumentative but why are we calling this a setback? Is there news that says he had a setback or just our jump to the worst case because they actually want to make sure he's healthy?

It's only the fans that expected him back in a month. It was a month before he started to ramp up activities, then it's probably a month to get through initial PT, then a month to get to playing shape. No one said he would be playing in a month. If that was everyone's expectation then you were all delusional.

This is not directed at you @Crede777 , just using your post because you indicated a setback and I had not read or heard anything of the sorts and because so many have jumped off the ledge that he's never playing hockey again... my god. I agree, not ideal, but an 18 year old can overcome and he wasn't playing in the NHL for 3 years, likely, anyway. I'm quite sure he isn't even eligible for the AHL next year regardless so go adjust in Medicine Hat and move forward.

 

[koteka]

I tend not to believe that our players are just a lot more fragile/less lucky then other teams and I put that failure on the medical team and their evaluation.

We have three major hospital systems / physician networks in central Ohio - OSU, Ohio Health, and Mount Carmel. It has always bothered me that one of these (Ohio Health) is a major CBJ sponsor and basically pays to be the health care provider of the Jackets. I see why Ohio Health does it (especially because OSU is automatically tied into with the Buckeyes), but I would be a little skeptical if I were a player or in the front office.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Cyclones Rock]

We have three major hospital systems / physician networks in central Ohio - OSU, Ohio Health, and Mount Carmel. It has always bothered me that one of these (Ohio Health) is a major CBJ sponsor and basically pays to be the health care provider of the Jackets. I see why Ohio Health does it (especially because OSU is automatically tied into with the Buckeyes), but I would be a little skeptical if I were a player or in the front office.

I understand your concern, but second and third opinions could have been easily procured by the CBJ outside of their network. I would hope that the Lindstrom evaluation consisted of more than a doctor or two from the team's health network. If it wasn't, then that's a major boo boo.

In fact, given the CBJ history with Horton and JD's own major long term back problems, it would be pure negligence if multiple source evaluations weren't done.

 

[Ice9]

The nerve that takes the abuse in these injuries can take a while to recover. Some recover quickly some slowly and some not at all or not entirely. My x-ray was amazing in that the nerve was large and healthy above the injury and turned into this little squiggly nerve below it. It suffered pretty badly. I have residual issues but overall healed ok. They'll play it cautious with their investment but staying active is a key in the healing.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

Quoting from the article:

THW: How’s Cayden Lindstrom progressing along?

Waddell: “Very well. He’s not skating yet. I’ve said this too many times probably. We’re really being cautious. We know what this year’s meant. We want to make sure we get this player to the point where this isn’t an issue anymore. So right now, he’s doing a little bit of stuff. He’s pain free completely and as we continue on the next few weeks, we’ll start ramping up on him.”

THW: Is there a chance he could miss the rest of the season?

Waddell: “Possibly. I mean, it’s too early to tell. We’ll see how this next month goes. But if there’s no reason. If he’s ready, he’s ready. If not, there’s no reason to rush back to play a few games this year.”

So they are going to start to try to take some steps going forward and depending on how that goes, he could return to Medicine Hat before season's end. Good.

 

[majormajor]

"Pain free completely" are the magic words I needed to hear.

Beyond that, there's a lot to debate about whether to wait until next year, but the most important thing is "pain free completely". If it stays that way then I'm confident in the player's development even if he misses the whole year, I like his chances that much.

 

[stevo61]

huh, pretty much what I expected. Probably working on flexibility, strength, stabilizing muscles and all the fun off ice stuff

 

[majormajor]

huh, pretty much what I expected. Probably working on flexibility, strength, stabilizing muscles and all the fun off ice stuff

Do you happen to have any idea why, other than the possible re-emergence of pain, they might shut him down until next year? Waddell says they're going to make that decision based on what they see over the next few months, but I can't tell what that would be based on, if there is something other than pain that they would be monitoring?

 

[stevo61]

Do you happen to have any idea why, other than the possible re-emergence of pain, they might shut him down until next year? Waddell says they're going to make that decision based on what they see over the next few months, but I can't tell what that would be based on, if there is something other than pain that they would be monitoring?

Like for most people I go back to my own experience. I was pain free after about 8 months but had another 4 months where my flexibility was completely gone. Had my strength, felt good but I couldn't even L sit on the floor. So there could just be more work they want to do to limit future issues. Also naturally as a human it takes time to get comfortable doing things after a longterm injury, start taking on bad habits to "protect" yourself because it felt better when in pain but not smart overall. So it could still be lots of rehab/strength work/habit building things going on

 

[majormajor]

Like for most people I go back to my own experience. I was pain free after about 8 months but had another 4 months where my flexibility was completely gone. Had my strength, felt good but I couldn't even L sit on the floor. So there could just be more work they want to do to limit future issues.

I'm imagining with Lindstrom though that since it's been a year since the original injury, he's done a ton of core and stability work since then. A lot of what he's done to reduce pain (which didn't work) is helpful now that he's done the microdiscectomy.

Also naturally as a human it takes time to get comfortable doing things after a longterm injury, start taking on bad habits to "protect" yourself because it felt better when in pain but not smart overall. So it could still be lots of rehab/strength work/habit building things going on

This makes sense to me, he's a long time since the injury, but not a long time pain free. So there are some habits to fix.

 

[stevo61]

I'm imagining with Lindstrom though that since it's been a year since the original injury, he's done a ton of core and stability work since then. A lot of what he's done to reduce pain (which didn't work) is helpful now that he's done the microdiscectomy.



This makes sense to me, he's a long time since the injury, but not a long time pain free. So there are some habits to fix.

You can be limited depending on how he felt. I still trained while being injured. I could run 10km and my back would be fine but at the same time I could go on a 5 minute family walk and have to turn around because I'd lock right up. Such an individual thing so who knows what he's been able to do and for how long