Confirmed with Link: Carter Hart Officially Charged With One Count Of Sexual Assault (Per His Lawyers); Non-roster, salary cap info in OP

[Beef Invictus]

Yes, that's what I meant. There are three others who were in that hotel room at some point.

It's *possible* they could offer damning testimony. It's also possible they could offer testimony that supports the defendants. It's possible they could refuse to testify because of potential self-incrimination. It's even possible they cut deals to offer testimony in exchange for no charges.

Impossible to know, but without testimony from someone else who was there, it's going to be very difficult to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

With the way prosecution of this kind of crime goes, I'd be pretty surprised if they brought charges with witnesses supporting the accused

 

[marcsson68]

There is more than one layer in this.

Regarding the question if a crime was committed I wouldn‘t raise a fork and a torch before knowing more about who and what the girl is. Credibility will be a factor.
The video evidence is more than dubious, but on the other hand there is more than one possible version what happened between the „act“ and the videos.

Morally they are done anyway. Even a consensual group act will ruin their careers. They won‘t be forgiven and it won‘t be forgotten. It will be hard for them to even continue in Europe.

Times have changed. When rockstars had tons of ladies in the 70s or 80s they were Gods. Nowadays a celebrity has to think twice about even any modest encounter (will it be recorded? Will there be wrong accusation / ransom afterwards?). So a group act is not a good idea even if consensual.

 

[deadhead]

Should also add the he said she said could happen if a guy says "I asked her if she was good with this before we began and she said yes".

It's not crazy to think this may have happened to one of them. Not Saying each one asked or anything. But until we hear testimony we won't know. Testimony from all...her, the 5, the 3, other teammates who may have been told something.

I also want to know what info the police gatherers the 1st time to lead them to the decision to not go further with this. It wasn't until Rick W really pushed on this was it re-opened. So was that done due to media? And all of TC execs who knew...what were they told by players, police.

I just hope all the truthful info comes out in the end.

There are also text messages and other evidence that suggest it'll be more than "she said, he said," that prosecutors will have a timeline and evidence that she didn't expect what happened, i.e. she had consensual sex with one player who then invited the others without asking her. The fact that they actually had her say on video that she consented afterwards works against them - if they had did that before hand, it would have shown whether she was too inebriated to consent and that she was a willing participant, by waiting it looks more like an admission of mens rea (opps, we screwed up, better cover our tracks).

Those who covered up the incident are in for a day of reckoning.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

The “funny” thing is that it was someone representing the defense that played those consent videos.

Somehow they thought that would make them look better.

Major misstep.

 

[Tripod]

Absolutely it is. The police have to do an investigation. It is HOW they do their investigation that matters. Just using this case as an example. If someone is taken advantage of when drunk, there will be no physical evidence of non-consensual sex. That does not exist and simply cannot be proven so it comes down to literally a he-said-she-said situation. If your focus as a police officer, juror, commentator, etc. is on trying to poke holes in the victims story (e.g., why were you out so late? were you drunk? did you agree to go home with him? did you agree to kiss him? etc.) rather than the accused, that is the problem and that is why people don't want to report this crime because they know the case is not going to be about the accused, it is going to be about them.

All fair.

 

[Flybynite]

The “funny” thing is that it was someone representing the defense that played those consent videos.

Somehow they thought that would make them look better.

Major misstep.

I'm no lawyer, but in a situation with an alleged sexual assault where alcohol was known to have been involved and the timeline shows that something like 3/4/5 hours went by from the bar to the encounter...

It doesn't seem like the best defense to make public a video(or description of it) where the alleged victim is saying "Well, now that I've sobered up."

 

[FanForLife]

Those witnesses are going to get crucified regardless what they say, too.

If they say "she seemed to have no issue with what was going on", they will get grouped with those 5 as condoning the action.

If they say "she looked like she was forced", then why didn't they step in and help her.

Wonder what they end up saying, and the fallout.....and who it was.

I'm almost positive I wouldn't have the balls to say something when I was 19 in a room of my peers. Not proud of that...but realistic. I agree with you for sure...what will they say? In bad spot, think they'll go with soft "she seemed to be condoning it" with an added "they weren't totally comfortable with it all, so they left" to make them not look like total douchebags. And actually, for some if not all of them(witnesses), this probably is exactly the case.

 

[JABEE]

With the way prosecution of this kind of crime goes, I'd be pretty surprised if they brought charges with witnesses supporting the accused

Also, I imagine those witnesses would be facing charges if they were in the room watching someone being raped or coercing a statement to protect the alleged rapists. It would seem they most likely are cooperating with the prosecution.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

No, I won't. And that is the objective truth. Did you go to law school? Any lawyer with half a brain cell will have them sue the accuser and Hockey Canada at minimum. If they can prove any procedural mistakes or malfeasance on the part of law enforcement, they could sue them. They even could sue the NHL and teams if they are blackballed afterward. Maybe even the NHLPA if they could establish it failed to meet a duty of care. The NHLPA has a Universal Declaration of Players' Rights' that includes a Right to Work and the Right to be free of harassment.

You are factually incorrect. I think YOU should walk away from this thread, because you are embarrassing yourself.

your view of the world seems to be very depressive. Coming from me that is a strong sign to think about what you are doing. Iam mostly negative most of the time. But this is something else. Maybe you can sue God for bad weather and the 49ers for winning in our stadium.

 

[landsbergfan]

Interesting updates: publication ban on victim identity and 2 witnesses…are witnesses players from the team?

Seems like substantial evidence would raise questions on why this was buried back in the day. Consequences?

Doesn’t seem we will know much more until the end of april

 

[Larry44]

Interesting updates: publication ban on victim identity and 2 witnesses…are witnesses players from the team?

Seems like substantial evidence would raise questions on why this was buried back in the day. Consequences?

Doesn’t seem we will know much more until the end of april

Can only assume the prosecutors have more compelling evidence/more witnesses now than they did then. Will be interesting questions as the trial goes forward.

 

[Rebels57]

If the 2 witnesses for the Prosecution are players from the team that were in the room....then it is really not looking good for these 5 idiots.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

In a world of miscalculations and inappropriate behavior to varying degrees comes this story from Minnesota involving youth hockey players:

MSN

Blaine woman charged with sexual assault of youth hockey teammates in Roseville​

Prosecutors say a Blaine woman sexually assaulted two teenage boys from Colorado who were in Roseville last month to play in a hockey tournament.

Allison Schardin, 38, was arrested Thursday on charges of third- and fourth-degree criminal sexual conduct and remains in custody at the Ramsey County jail. She allegedly assaulted two 15-year-olds on a Colorado youth hockey team who were in town for a tournament. A third teen witnessed the alleged assaults.

According to the charges:

While in a hot tub with the teens at the hotel on the evening of Jan. 14, Schardin told them she had marital problems. One of the teens cited in the charges said Schardin's husband came to the pool area and yelled something like, "If you don't come upstairs, our relationship is over."

The boys went to their rooms, where one received a snapchat from Schardin stating that she and her husband had gotten into an argument and asking if she could come over to the teen's room.

Two of the teammates did not want her there, but one reportedly allowed her in because she said she needed help. Those two teammates left when Schardin arrived, leaving her with the three boys cited in the charges.

She told the teens that she was afraid of her husband, and eventually started talking about "sex and stuff." She got into bed with two of the boys while the third one was in another bed, asking them how sexually active they were. They told her their ages when she asked, mentioning that they played for a 16-and-under team.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

In a world of miscalculations and inappropriate behavior to varying degrees comes this story from Minnesota involving youth hockey players:

MSN

Blaine woman charged with sexual assault of youth hockey teammates in Roseville​

Prosecutors say a Blaine woman sexually assaulted two teenage boys from Colorado who were in Roseville last month to play in a hockey tournament.

Allison Schardin, 38, was arrested Thursday on charges of third- and fourth-degree criminal sexual conduct and remains in custody at the Ramsey County jail. She allegedly assaulted two 15-year-olds on a Colorado youth hockey team who were in town for a tournament. A third teen witnessed the alleged assaults.

According to the charges:

While in a hot tub with the teens at the hotel on the evening of Jan. 14, Schardin told them she had marital problems. One of the teens cited in the charges said Schardin's husband came to the pool area and yelled something like, "If you don't come upstairs, our relationship is over."

The boys went to their rooms, where one received a snapchat from Schardin stating that she and her husband had gotten into an argument and asking if she could come over to the teen's room.

Two of the teammates did not want her there, but one reportedly allowed her in because she said she needed help. Those two teammates left when Schardin arrived, leaving her with the three boys cited in the charges.

She told the teens that she was afraid of her husband, and eventually started talking about "sex and stuff." She got into bed with two of the boys while the third one was in another bed, asking them how sexually active they were. They told her their ages when she asked, mentioning that they played for a 16-and-under team.

Talk about a sexual assault epidemic that gets relatively glossed over.

Seems like there’s a new adult-woman / mid-teens boy story every other week these days.

 

[landsbergfan]

Can only assume the prosecutors have more compelling evidence/more witnesses now than they did then. Will be interesting questions as the trial goes forward.

I think they just have a more compelling reason now than they did then

 

[deadhead]

It's the internet - anything a little offbeat goes viral - as does anything dramatic.

So the impression is "violent crime" is out of control! (no, despite a brief spurt during the pandemic, it's far lower than a few decades ago), a video of organization shoplifters becomes a movement, when the actual stats show there's been no increase in retail stats. But a tik tok video is easy to digest, researching statistics takes work.

Rape and sexual molestation has become the norm, no, it's just reported now, a few decades ago "out of sight, out of mind." Doubt that the woman in this case would have even bothered to come forward 40 years ago, no one would have believed her or taken action. With advances in DNA, phones with cameras, etc., bad behavior which was the norm now lands you in jail.

Social media has become a fun mirror, distorting reality. Which is fine for entertainment, but when it creeps into politics it becomes dangerous, as people confuse what they see with what is real.

Part of the problem is people are generally stupid, not much has changed in 100 years:

"No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby. The mistake that is made always runs the other way. Because the plain people are able to speak and understand, and even, in many cases, to read and write, it is assumed that they have ideas in their heads, and an appetite for more. This assumption is a folly."

H. L. Mencken, September 18, 1926.

 

[Beef Invictus]

1/4 of women experience sexual assault and 1/26 males experience sexual assault. Not very equivalent. Not really an epidemic.

 

[deadhead]

1/4 of women experience sexual assault and 1/26 males experience sexual assault. Not very equivalent. Not really an epidemic.

I am always wary of these sort of statistics, an assault is an "unwanted touching," so that could range from anything from a makeout session that went a little further than a woman wanted to a violent rape. These stats are often derived from survey data, where you have to know how the question was phrased, how the sample was developed, etc.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I am always wary of these sort of statistics, an assault is an "unwanted touching," so that could range from anything from a makeout session that went a little further than a woman wanted to a violent rape. These stats are often derived from survey data, where you have to know how the question was phrased, how the sample was developed, etc.

Sure, but a gap that significant is...well, significant.

 

[deadhead]

Sure, but a gap that significant is...well, significant.

That I can agree with, even if the overall numbers might change substantially, it's unlikely that gap would be much different.

 

[cannucky]

For those just jumping in now this incident involved 8 players originally so it is very likely the 2 witnesses come from the 3 uncharged players . That said lets move on to something we can talk about here on HF , what does the CBA say about these player contracts as far as the teams are concerned ? Since the league definitely knew about this incident prior to these players actually entering play in the NHL even if some of them had already been drafted prior is this situation with the teams as unknowing employers would they be allowed to just wipe the books of these contracts and their Cap hit ? Post Conviction of course because after previous incidents where after removed players where actually aquitted at trial and then sued the teams and league I would imagine its all in limbo until resolved by trial .

 

[Larry44]

Here's a link to the press conference:
London police provide update on Canada's 2018 world junior hockey team sexual assault case

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

For those just jumping in now this incident involved 8 players originally so it is very likely the 2 witnesses come from the 3 uncharged players . That said lets move on to something we can talk about here on HF , what does the CBA say about these player contracts as far as the teams are concerned ? Since the league definitely knew about this incident prior to these players actually entering play in the NHL even if some of them had already been drafted prior is this situation with the teams as unknowing employers would they be allowed to just wipe the books of these contracts and their Cap hit ? Post Conviction of course because after previous incidents where after removed players where actually aquitted at trial and then sued the teams and league I would imagine its all in limbo until resolved by trial .

Bettman already said that the teams are just going to let their contracts end which will occur at the end of this season.

Or are you asking specifically about the potential witnesses?