GDT: CARSEA

[VAcaniac]

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[Stubu]

,

 

[MustardStew]

!

 

[mikeyfan]

Will there be a tribute to John Forslund?

 

[AD Skinner]

Will there be a tribute to John Forslund?

There had better be

 

[Derailed75]

Wow you guys are up early.

 

[hockeynjune]

.!

 

[Finnish Jerk Train]

If there's not a formal tribute, the fans need to do something on their own. Even if there is, we still should. The guy is a Canes legend, he stayed with us through the highest of highs and lowest of lows, and Dundon tossed him aside like some lazy intern. Chanting, signs, whatever you can think of to let him know we'll never forget what he means to this organization.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

If there's not a formal tribute, the fans need to do something on their own. Even if there is, we still should. The guy is a Canes legend and Dundon tossed him aside like some lazy intern. Chanting, signs, whatever you can think of to let him know we'll never forget what he means to this organization.

Revisionist history right there

 

[Finnish Jerk Train]

Revisionist history right there

How so? Genuine question. I'm not as up to date on the team's happenings in recent years so now I'm wondering if I missed something.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

How so? Genuine question.

Just because John wouldn’t accept the contract offered doesn’t mean we tossed him aside like some intern. John was treated like all the other employees.

lazy interns aren’t offered deals especially ones like every other employee.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Revisionist history right there

I don't think anything he's saying is incorrect other than the hyperbole of lazy intern. Forslund became synonymous with the Carolina Hurricanes and there were many years where we worried about losing him to another gig, but he stuck with Carolina. Maybe that's because it was the best offer he had at the time, but he still did. Coaches and players come and go, but he was a constant.

I'm not blaming Dundon/Waddell as they made a business decision. They offered a salary that was a significant reduction and didn't want to spend the money on Forslund, as they felt the money would be spent better elsewhere and the revenue wouldn't be worse by letting him go. It is what it is.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I don't think anything he's saying is incorrect other than the hyperbole of lazy intern. Forslund became synonymous with the Carolina Hurricanes and there were many years where we worried about losing him to another gig, but he stuck with Carolina. Maybe that's because it was the best offer he had at the time, but he still did. Coaches and players come and go, but he was a constant.

I'm not blaming Dundon/Waddell as they made a business decision. They offered a salary that was a significant reduction and didn't want to spend the money on Forslund, as they felt the money would be spent better elsewhere and the revenue wouldn't be worse by letting him go. It is what it is.

The hyperbole of tossing him aside like a lazy intern changes the whole tone. Now if we want to argue that he wasn’t offered a deal worthy of his talent level, even John F felt that way. He was offered the same crappy deal that every other employee was offered due to the lack of revenue

 

[Finnish Jerk Train]

Just because John wouldn’t accept the contract offered doesn’t mean we tossed him aside like some intern. John was treated like all the other employees.

Ah, I see. I would say those contracts screwed everyone, John just chose not to stand for it. They were lucky Tripp took it. I understand why they were offered those contracts, but it seemed penny wise and pound foolish. Contracts are negotiable, especially if you have an agent, but it sounded like the organization never had any desire to negotiate - they just told everyone to take it or leave it. That's what was surprising to me.

Maybe the lazy intern part is a bit hyperbolic. I was having trouble coming up with a comparison before being adequately caffeinated. But I'm still a little bitter about the lack of negotiation with the team's most visible ambassador.

 

[Lempo]

Just because John wouldn’t accept the contract offered doesn’t mean we tossed him aside like some intern. John was treated like all the other employees.

lazy interns aren’t offered deals especially ones like every other employee.

I'm not blaming Dundon/Waddell as they made a business decision. They offered a salary that was a significant reduction and didn't want to spend the money on Forslund, as they felt the money would be spent better elsewhere and the revenue wouldn't be worse by letting him go. It is what it is.

My understanding of what happened was and is that the organization offered everyone in media (17? persons) a new poor model of contract that at least in the COVID-19 circumstances meant a serious pay cut. John alone didn't take it.

I don't think it wasn't so much about not paying John particularly, but if they gave John a better kind of contract, everyone would want a better kind of contract and they didn't want to give John's contract for them as an argument when they had just managed to slash the salary budget.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The hyperbole of tossing him aside like a lazy intern changes the whole tone. Now if we want to argue that he wasn’t offered a deal worthy of his talent level, even John F felt that way. He was offered the same crappy deal that every other employee was offered due to the lack of revenue

Well, you (and I) have no idea how crappy it was and who all got "crappy" offers. I guarantee you that not every employee got a crappy deal and there were levels of "crappy" for each employee.

I think the point is that the Canes didn't care about losing him much, if even at all, and thus were willing to give him a low-ball offer they very likely knew he wouldn't take. That's kind of "tossing him aside" to me, but to each their own.

Again, I'm not blaming Dundon/Waddell by making that business decision, but let's not act like it wasn't cut throat. We've seen it in many cases now.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Ah, I see. I would say those contracts screwed everyone, John just chose not to stand for it. They were lucky Tripp took it. I understand why they were offered those contracts, but it seemed penny wise and pound foolish. Contracts are negotiable, especially if you have an agent, but it sounded like the organization never had any desire to negotiate - they just told everyone to take it or leave it. That's what was surprising to me.

Maybe the lazy intern part is a bit hyperbolic. I was having trouble coming up with a comparison before being adequately caffeinated. But I'm still a little bitter about the lack of negotiation with the team's most visible ambassador.

If you want to create work environment issues, offer 16 people a deal with part guaranteed part revenue based salary. Then offer one full guaranteed and higher overall. If the deals were bad enough all of them would have left to find other gigs after things got closer to normal.

 

[surfzone365]

Lets not spot another opponent a 2-0 lead before we decide to show up. Slay the Kraken!

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Well, you (and I) have no idea how crappy it was and who all got "crappy" offers. I guarantee you that not every employee got a crappy deal and there were levels of "crappy" for each employee.

I think the point is that the Canes didn't care about losing him much, if even at all, and thus were willing to give him a low-ball offer they very likely knew he wouldn't take. That's kind of "tossing him aside" to me, but to each their own.

Again, I'm not blaming Dundon/Waddell by making that business decision, but let's not act like it wasn't cut throat. We've seen it in many cases now.

So you say that we don’t know how crappy the deals were but make a firm statement they were willing to low ball a deal he wouldn’t take. Those don’t mesh.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

My understanding of what happened was and is that the organization offered everyone in media (17? persons) a new poor model of contract that at least in the COVID-19 circumstances meant a serious pay cut. John alone didn't take it.

I don't think it wasn't so much about not paying John particularly, but if they gave John a better kind of contract, everyone would want a better kind of contract and they didn't want to give John's contract for them as an argument when they had just managed to slash the salary budget.

To me, that's just a convenient excuse. Each employee has a different value and importance. When it comes to communications, John was at the top of the value food chain. I've managed large organizations many times in my career and we would not treat our top employees the same as the bottom employees when it came to compensation. Unless there's a union, that never happens. People that are more important and have more leverage got paid more and got different salary structures.

Giving John a different structure than some lower level person wouldn't have been an unreasonable position IMO.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

So you say that we don’t know how crappy the deals were but make a firm statement they were willing to low ball a deal he wouldn’t take. Those don’t mesh.

The certainly do:

1) None of us know exact numbers so it's clear we don't know the specifics.
2) John clearly left and stated that the offer wasn't even close to being acceptable.

Now, one can choose to not believe John, which is a person's choice, but given how this management team has negotiated most of their deals, there's enough smoke for me to assume there's a fire.

Again, not blaming them for making a business decision and I'm not really upset about losing John either, just not willing to ignore how this management team operates.

 

[Tryamw]

We went from a nice shag carpet to a poorly covered carsea(t) Why couldn't we get a leather apolstried one!.


Well anyway this dignity shall not be acceptable Score Moar goals!.

 

[surfzone365]

With all this sentiment about JF, I miss him too. Heck, we will even invite him back for our Stanley Cup celebration.

 

[Finnish Jerk Train]

I also think different employees bring value in different areas. Being a gate-driven league, some people's jobs are entirely dependent on people being in the building.

Then there's the broadcast team. When nobody's allowed in the building, those folks are the only link between the team and the fans. I thought they should have been paid accordingly. Not just the announcers, but the crew too. If people have options and you're not taking care of them, they walk. I'm seeing it in my department right now (we've lost half our people and I'll be the next to go once the paperwork is signed).

I don't know exactly how it all went down for everybody. I just thought the optics were bad.

At any rate, what's done is done. All I was trying to say originally is we should show the guy some appreciation. Lazy intern was a bad choice of words and I'll own that.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The certainly do:

1) None of us know exact numbers so it's clear we don't know the specifics.
2) John clearly left and stated that the offer wasn't even close to being acceptable.

Now, one can choose to not believe John, which is a person's choice, but given how this management team has negotiated most of their deals, there's enough smoke for me to assume there's a fire.

Again, not blaming them for making a business decision and I'm not really upset about losing John either, just not willing to ignore how this management team operates.

Those statements don’t mesh. You can’t claim we don’t know the deals but then say the management team made an offer they knew JF wouldn’t accept.
We know JF didn’t accept and we know the team didn’t come up to John’s acceptable level. That doesn’t mean they knew he wouldn’t accept it. They made a deal based on their internal budget.