Proposal: Carolina - Vancouver

[Fatass]

The fact that the Canes aren't doing practically whatever it takes to keep a fairly young core piece, throws up some red flags. Either the player is high maintenance and is making demands about his role on the team, or the Canes don't really think he's all that great of a player, and not worth whatever his next contract is going to be. Doesn't sound like a player that I'd want to spend significant assets for.

With the addition of DeBrusk, I think this suggests that the Canucks have moved on from trying to acquire Necas anyways. They now have the makings of 3 solid lines on the strength of 3 pairings of forwards: EP/DeBrusk, Miller/Boeser, Garland/Joshua. There really isn't room capwise, for another big caphit up front. Not without destroying the forward depth. I'm glad it looks like the Canucks are out on this one.

Imo Canucks management is always trying to improve their club. Trading Garland for Nescas would certainly be something they would do. The Canes wouldn’t, of course, but 100% the Canucks would.

 

[PettersonHughes]

The fact that the Canes aren't doing practically whatever it takes to keep a fairly young core piece, throws up some red flags. Either the player is high maintenance and is making demands about his role on the team, or the Canes don't really think he's all that great of a player, and not worth whatever his next contract is going to be. Doesn't sound like a player that I'd want to spend significant assets for.

With the addition of DeBrusk, I think this suggests that the Canucks have moved on from trying to acquire Necas anyways. They now have the makings of 3 solid lines on the strength of 3 pairings of forwards: EP/DeBrusk, Miller/Boeser, Garland/Joshua. There really isn't room capwise, for another big caphit up front. Not without destroying the forward depth. I'm glad it looks like the Canucks are out on this one.

This (though I also agree with the unbolded). DeBrusk is probably the big ticket, all-situations winger that either Petey or Miller will run with (since Petey worked with Boeser before, perhaps Brock goes back to his wing?).

Side note/ smaller trade idea: Not sure how high the Canes are on Scott Morrow, but if he's going to be stuck behind Burns, Walker and Chatfield (the latter two with term), I wonder if there's a chance that he could be had in a trade.

 

[DaveG]

The fact that the Canes aren't doing practically whatever it takes to keep a fairly young core piece, throws up some red flags. Either the player is high maintenance and is making demands about his role on the team, or the Canes don't really think he's all that great of a player, and not worth whatever his next contract is going to be. Doesn't sound like a player that I'd want to spend significant assets for.

With the addition of DeBrusk, I think this suggests that the Canucks have moved on from trying to acquire Necas anyways. They now have the makings of 3 solid lines on the strength of 3 pairings of forwards: EP/DeBrusk, Miller/Boeser, Garland/Joshua. There really isn't room capwise, for another big caphit up front. Not without destroying the forward depth. I'm glad it looks like the Canucks are out on this one.

The bolded is EXACTLY what's going on here.

Brindy sounds like he wants to try to mend things here this season but we'll see if they can at this point. He should be in line to get back on PP1 with the current roster makeup

 

[Chan790]

Side note/ smaller trade idea: Not sure how high the Canes are on Scott Morrow, but if he's going to be stuck behind Burns, Walker and Chatfield (the latter two with term), I wonder if there's a chance that he could be had in a trade.

I can't imagine the offer the Canucks would make that the Canes would consider.

 

[Chrispy]

Side note/ smaller trade idea: Not sure how high the Canes are on Scott Morrow, but if he's going to be stuck behind Burns, Walker and Chatfield (the latter two with term), I wonder if there's a chance that he could be had in a trade.

Very high. The plan is to give Morrow a year in Chicago to adjust to the pros and then have him move up when Burns retires.

He will likely get some time as injuries occur this year but if they wouldn’t part with him for Guentzel I don’t see them moving him now when a spot is opening up next year.

 

[Tryamkin]

I understand Canes fans will call this package too small, but I wouldn’t give this up as a Canuck fan.

While Garland is playing on our third line, he is by no means a “bottom six player” as described by others. He scored nearly 50 points and is an infectious presence in our team despite his pesky waterbug style of play. Losing our key to arguably the best third line in the league and adding a 1st is a little rich for my blood. From an asset management standpoint, I’d much rather hold on to the 25 1st and deal it next year for a defensive upgrade for the second pairing or top six scoring winger (while keeping Garland).

I’m sure other teams would give more than we would.

Also, I don’t think Carolina needs futures anyways, so this seems like a better package than Canes fans are making it out to be? A replacement 2nd line winger that will require 3M less, a reclamation project and a 1st? Nice

 

[biturbo19]

Not worth it at all to me from a Canucks perspective.

Garland outproduced Necas at even strength last year while driving a "3rd line". For probably a little more than ~half of what Necas will be looking for on a new long-term contract. And Garland is actually a reliable defensive player.


Take out the 1st round pick and maybe i start to at least think about it, but probably still don't even do Garland + Podkolzin for Necas straight across. I'd like to add the speed Necas offers, but he'd have to become a fixture on the Top Unit Powerplay to even stand a chance at producing well enough to make the extra $$$ and loss of Podkolzin balance out overall. And i'm not that confident Necas would be a perfect fit that meshes in that role, enough to offset the cost of the deal in assets and cap.

Garland's impacts also go beyond just the production. He's such a relentless sparkplug. That can't be understated, in how important he is to setting a tone for the team and providing a spark when they come out flat.

 

[Canuck Luck]

Seems like a pretty underwhelming package. Podkolzin is an ahl tweener that requires waivers but hasn't really shown he's worthy of being a full time nhler, Garland is all heart but he's an undersized bottom 6 grinder with decent hands. The 1st will likely be somewhat late. I expect suspect Carolina will want higher end pieces for Necas

Good luck to Carolina then. This is a severe overpay.

Garland is a 50 point middle 6 winger, Necas is a 60 point top 6 winger. The difference in value factoring in Garland makes under 5M and Necas is rumoured to be looking for 7M-7.5M contract. The difference isnt a 1st + Podkolzin.

 

[Identity404]

Good luck to Carolina then. This is a severe overpay.

Garland is a 50 point middle 6 winger, Necas is a 60 point top 6 winger. The difference in value factoring in Garland makes under 5M and Necas is rumoured to be looking for 7M-7.5M contract. The difference isnt a 1st + Podkolzin.

Necas (25yr/old): .671 career PPG with 28G 71P being his best season

Garland (28yrs/old): .596 career PPG with 19G 52P being his best season

I’m glad Canuck fans are homers so we can all agree to end this thread.

 

[Hobnobs]

Necas (25yr/old): .671 career PPG with 28G 71P being his best season

Garland (28yrs/old): .596 career PPG with 19G 52P being his best season

I’m glad Canuck fans are homers so we can all agree to end this thread.

I'm not a canucks fan but this has an equal amount of homerism from your side. Yes, Necas is better and there is definitely a gap there but that closes a bit when you factor in their cap hits (if 7+m is true) which means you pay less per point for Garland now add in his other intagibles this becomes a pretty fair trade.

Imo though, Nucks should just keep Garland as he's cost controlled and brings more than just offense and is someone the coach likes.

 

[Identity404]

I'm not a canucks fan but this has an equal amount of homerism from your side. Yes, Necas is better and there is definitely a gap there but that closes a bit when you factor in their cap hits (if 7+m is true) which means you pay less per point for Garland now add in his other intagibles this becomes a pretty fair trade.

Imo though, Nucks should just keep Garland as he's cost controlled and brings more than just offense and is someone the coach likes.

Necas is a RFA with 2 years of team control. If he signs a two year contract it is probably around 6 I’m guessing. Garland only has 2 more years on his contract.

In most Necas trade proposals people like to ignore his best season which was only 1 season ago.

If he plays with a top center like Petey, it’s not hard to imagine he will be a PPG winger. The whole reason he wants a trade is because his role on the team was reduced last year.

I was just simply stating facts. Not sure how that makes me a homer.

 

[lawrence]

Uhhhhhh

I don’t want another European player that will be bounced around come playoff time.

If he was that good Carolina will be more than happy to keep him right ?

Huge pass.

Good player thought but not what we are lookin for.

 

[Lempo]

The fact that the Canes aren't doing practically whatever it takes to keep a fairly young core piece

Seth Jarvis is the fairly young core piece who usurped the position from Necas and now needs a RFA contract.

 

[NotOpie]

Either the player is high maintenance and is making demands about his role on the team, or the Canes don't really think he's all that great of a player, and not worth whatever his next contract is going to be

Rod Brind'Amour recently did an interview where he talked about Necas. Said he was one of the most skilled players on the team and they have plans for an even more important role this season (he's assuming he won't get moved). He also said that because he sees so much in the kid, he wants more out of him. Rod added that he like the kid and gets along with him and, if he's hard on him, it is because he sees even more potential. He made no mention that Necas was dogging it in any way, just that he knows there's more to give.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Necas got bumped from the 1st PP for structural reasons. The coaches went with 2 left hand shots on the half walls: Aho at the left and Svechnikov (Teravainen when he was hurt) at the right. A left hand shot occupied the slot; Guentzel replaced Bunting. That left one spot, a pseudo net front role. Jarvis is better suited for that than Necas.

While that failed in crunchtime, it finished #2 leaguewide in the regular season. Hard to argue against what they were doing.

Players get paid for production. Necas’ numbers took a hit arguably through no fault of his own. That cost him money. Look at the narratives about him in the public sphere because of it. The guy carried Bunting and Drury for 2 months and no one seems to care. 53 points. 53 points. 53 points.

All of this is to say that both sides acted rationally. There is no bad guy.

 

[krutovsdonut]

To Vancouver
Martin Necas

To Carolina
Conor Garland
Vasili Podkolzin
25' 1st

canucks don't do that. people here don't understand garland's value. he drives offence on the third line with bottom 6 linemates. he also lifts the team emotionally and leads on pushes giving the team a three line push. and he does it on a great contract. i would not trade him straight up for a run of the mill complimentary top 6 winger who outpoints him. i would have to allocate that top 6 winger more cap and he contributes less.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I'm not a canucks fan but this has an equal amount of homerism from your side. Yes, Necas is better and there is definitely a gap there but that closes a bit when you factor in their cap hits (if 7+m is true) which means you pay less per point for Garland now add in his other intagibles this becomes a pretty fair trade.

Imo though, Nucks should just keep Garland as he's cost controlled and brings more than just offense and is someone the coach likes.

it's nice to see a lot of neutral fans recognizing this in the thread. necas scores more points, but he's on the trade block because he doesn't do other things better. plus, if you gave garland the same minutes it would be much closer. they actually have identical pts/60 last season.

i'd love to have a necas on the canucks, but it would need to be for a different asset so that adding him actually makes the team better.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

but he's on the trade block because he doesn't do other things better. plus

He's on the trade block because he wants out

 

[Canuck Luck]

Necas (25yr/old): .671 career PPG with 28G 71P being his best season

Garland (28yrs/old): .596 career PPG with 19G 52P being his best season

I’m glad Canuck fans are homers so we can all agree to end this thread.

As I said one is a 60 point player one is a 50 point player which you just showed. The gap is actually even smaller. Garland's career avg is 49 points per 82 games while Necas is 55 points per 82 games.

Necas plays PP1 with a career avg 16:36 ice time per game
Garland plays PP2 with a career avg 15:09 ice time per game

Necas put up 53 points playing on the 2nd line last season
Garland put up 47 points playing on the 3rd line last season

Necas is a RFA with 2 years of team control. If he signs a two year contract it is probably around 6 I’m guessing. Garland only has 2 more years on his contract.

In most Necas trade proposals people like to ignore his best season which was only 1 season ago.

If he plays with a top center like Petey, it’s not hard to imagine he will be a PPG winger. The whole reason he wants a trade is because his role on the team was reduced last year.

I was just simply stating facts. Not sure how that makes me a homer.

IF he comes to Vancouver, he may not make PP1 so his numbers would go down or stagnate.
We can say IF garland gets to play with Petey its not hard to imagine his numbers going up too. Back in 2021-2022 before Green was fired, Garland was pacing for 60-70 points playing on Petey's wing. Both players have only gotten better since then so he should be able to at least do that again if given the chance.

If Necas is a capabale 70 pint player and not a 60 point player, Why was Carolina so intent on trading him instead of just giving him 7-7.5M? Because he wants to play centre? Not like you have better option for 2C anyways so it just sounds like an excuse. Is Kotkaniemi or Kuznetsov really better than him at C?

 

[Johnsie19]

Necas' -1.4 relative to his teammates largely means he's a product of the system he plays in. Garland being better than his team average means he is a posession driver while Necas is a passenger.

The overall corsi numbers aren't a 1:1 comparison because the Canucks are not a "good" corsi team, they bleed shots against and don't shoot the puck as much as they could while Carolina takes tons of shots, over 5 more per game.

It's hard to say though. I take your point but Necas could also just be surrounded by players who are the leagues best in possession and he's actually better than Garland in possession. I would argue also that being -1.4 is negligible when youre up in the 60%.

I don't think corsi rel as a raw number comparison is very useful.

Necas is 6'2" fast and has great hands so I pretty sure he drives play nicely himself.

 

[Johnsie19]

canucks don't do that. people here don't understand garland's value. he drives offence on the third line with bottom 6 linemates. he also lifts the team emotionally and leads on pushes giving the team a three line push. and he does it on a great contract. i would not trade him straight up for a run of the mill complimentary top 6 winger who outpoints him. i would have to allocate that top 6 winger more cap and he contributes less.

The argument would be Necas is a bonafide top line player who could play with Petey. He could also center a line if we wanted. He's younger, bigger, faster, and more skilled, big upside.

 

[Johnsie19]

Not worth it at all to me from a Canucks perspective.

Garland outproduced Necas at even strength last year while driving a "3rd line". For probably a little more than ~half of what Necas will be looking for on a new long-term contract. And Garland is actually a reliable defensive player.


Take out the 1st round pick and maybe i start to at least think about it, but probably still don't even do Garland + Podkolzin for Necas straight across. I'd like to add the speed Necas offers, but he'd have to become a fixture on the Top Unit Powerplay to even stand a chance at producing well enough to make the extra $$$ and loss of Podkolzin balance out overall. And i'm not that confident Necas would be a perfect fit that meshes in that role, enough to offset the cost of the deal in assets and cap.

Garland's impacts also go beyond just the production. He's such a relentless sparkplug. That can't be understated, in how important he is to setting a tone for the team and providing a spark when they come out flat.

I mean we do have a spot open on PP1 that would be ideal for right shot so Necas does tick that box. He'll probably get 7 mil which is only 2 mil more than Garland. It could disrupt the 3rd line but it could also spark Petey and the PP and give us another core fwd.

 

[krutovsdonut]

He's on the trade block because he wants out

and he wants out because the canes won't pay him what he wants and won't give him the ice time and situations he wants. and that is happening because he is a complimentary player.

i'd love to have necas on my team but the trade would have to make us better. moving garland for necas would not do that.

 

[Rowlet]

It's hard to say though. I take your point but Necas could also just be surrounded by players who are the leagues best in possession and he's actually better than Garland in possession. I would argue also that being -1.4 is negligible when youre up in the 60%.

I don't think corsi rel as a raw number comparison is very useful.

Necas is 6'2" fast and has great hands so I pretty sure he drives play nicely himself.

Well here's Garland with his linemate staple Dakota Joshua as per NST:

Garland has a CF and FF of 55% at ES without Joshua, Joshua on the other hand is 36% and 37% without Garland. Garland absolutely carries his line. It's also worth noting that when you only consider ice time with Hughes, normally a possession monster, Joshua's possession numbers barely improve at all if Garland isn't also on the ice.

I think corsi relative to teammates is much more useful than raw corsi compared across teams, especially when Carolina is a statistical darling year in and year out. They shoot the puck a ton, which makes their numbers look extremely good. They shoot the puck the 5th most in the league with 33.1 per game, the Canucks on the other hand shoot the puck the 26th most, at 28.5 per game. The easiest way to inflate corsi and fenwick is to shoot the puck a lot and the Canucks don't do that, the fact that Garland keeps up excellent possession stats despite the team never shooting the puck just shows how good he is, while Necas lives in a system where the mantra is to get pucks on the net but he's still below average at it.

Necas' -1.4 may not seem like much, and it probably isn't, but Garland's +6.2 rel will be sorely missed on a team that already allows a ton of CA.

Among Canucks skaters Garland was 3rd in CF% (2nd if you exclude Cole McWard who played a single really good game), and 1st in FF% this season, comparatively, Necas was 15th among Hurricanes in CF% and FF% if you exclude players who played 2 games or less. The Hurricanes also didn't have any players with a -CF% and only one with a -FF% who played more than 2 games. The Canucks had ten -CF% and eleven -FF% players when only considering over 8GP.

 

[wetcoast]

The fact that the Canes aren't doing practically whatever it takes to keep a fairly young core piece, throws up some red flags. Either the player is high maintenance and is making demands about his role on the team, or the Canes don't really think he's all that great of a player, and not worth whatever his next contract is going to be. Doesn't sound like a player that I'd want to spend significant assets for.

With the addition of DeBrusk, I think this suggests that the Canucks have moved on from trying to acquire Necas anyways. They now have the makings of 3 solid lines on the strength of 3 pairings of forwards: EP/DeBrusk, Miller/Boeser, Garland/Joshua. There really isn't room capwise, for another big caphit up front. Not without destroying the forward depth. I'm glad it looks like the Canucks are out on this one.

While everyone talks about the Leafs choking in the playoffs they kind of gloss over that the canes despite being an elite team in the east just can't seem to get over their playoff hump.

I don't know if Necas is exactly the problem but it looks like he will be the odd man out.