Proposal: Carolina - Vancouver

[Johnsie19]

To Vancouver
Martin Necas

To Carolina
Conor Garland
Vasili Podkolzin
25' 1st

Click to read more...

 

[Qwijibo]

Seems like a pretty underwhelming package. Podkolzin is an ahl tweener that requires waivers but hasn't really shown he's worthy of being a full time nhler, Garland is all heart but he's an undersized bottom 6 grinder with decent hands. The 1st will likely be somewhat late. I expect suspect Carolina will want higher end pieces for Necas

 

[Johnsie19]

Seems like a pretty underwhelming package. Podkolzin is an ahl tweener that requires waivers but hasn't really shown he's worthy of being a full time nhler, Garland is all heart but he's an undersized bottom 6 grinder with decent hands. The 1st will likely be somewhat late. I expect suspect Carolina will want higher end pieces for Necas

Garland is a lot more than you make him out to be. He is easily a top 6 calibre player. The Canucks happened to use him on the third line because he drives play at even strength with some of the best in the league. He was also one of the best Canucks during our playoff run. So ya I have to push back pretty strongly there. I'm not saying he's an all star either but he is a play driver and excellent bang for buck player which is part of why I think he'd be a great fit in Carolina.

Podz is a tweener for sure. You basically bet that he can take a step with a change of scenery.

And a 1st

It's pretty good value. Garland isn't by any means old, has term (under 5) and produces slightly better at even strength.

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

Seems like a pretty underwhelming package. Podkolzin is an ahl tweener that requires waivers but hasn't really shown he's worthy of being a full time nhler, Garland is all heart but he's an undersized bottom 6 grinder with decent hands. The 1st will likely be somewhat late. I expect suspect Carolina will want higher end pieces for Necas

I'm a huge fan of Podz and think he wil breakout this year but that's a fair assessment but gotta disagree about Garland being a bottom sixer.
When given top six roles in Phoenix an his first year here here put up good numbers. Even last year he still put solid numbers considering most all his points are at 5on5. I think it's safe to say with pp1 time and top six minutes he's a guy that can get 60+ points based on his body of work
Canes fans will immediately shit on this proposal and say Necas has more value but given the fact that no trade has happened points to teams not wanting to meet the ask.
End of the day a a 1st, a 50-60 point agitator and a prospect that at worst will still be a solid defensive winger with upside as a a power forward (they take longer) isnt a bad offer at all.
I think the canes want more and will simply keep him if they dont get it and that's probably smart given their shitty summer so far.

 

[Agent007]

If you use the Winnipeg to LA PLD trade as a rough framework then I think you’d have to add Hoglander to that.

So Garland, Hoglander, Podkolzin and a 1st for Necas

 

[wetcoast]

Garland is a lot more than you make him out to be. He is easily a top 6 calibre player. The Canucks happened to use him on the third line because he drives play at even strength with some of the best in the league. He was also one of the best Canucks during our playoff run. So ya I have to push back pretty strongly there. I'm not saying he's an all star either but he is a play driver and excellent bang for buck player which is part of why I think he'd be a great fit in Carolina.

Podz is a tweener for sure. You basically bet that he can take a step with a change of scenery.

And a 1st

It's pretty good value. Garland isn't by any means old, has term (under 5) and produces slightly better at even strength.

I agree with all of this but frankly Garland is just the type of player fanbase don't get excited about and Necas is as he has this untapped potential when the reality is that Garland is probably better than most people think and Necas will never be as good as some people think.

 

[HockeyWooot]

Unless the Canucks are extremely high on Necas I think they’d say no.

Seeing as he’s had consistency issues under a great but demanding coach in Brindamour, don’t see why that would be any different with Tocchet.

Garland while slightly overpaid is of value to the Canucks, adding both Podkolzin AND a first seems like an overpayment.

 

[Rowlet]

no thanks

I just don't really want Necas at all, and Garland is a much better posession player, which is what Tocchet likes. He makes every line he's on better.

 

[LordBacon]

I'd do it, but Carolina needs to retain a bit.

 

[Fatass]

Garland is at his ceiling. Nescas has yet to reach his and it’s a lot higher than Garland’s.

 

[bleedgreen]

I actually have always liked Garland for the Canes. Not for Necas though. There’s got to be one really good, young asset in the deal. I don’t see it here.

 

[Qwijibo]

I'd do it, but Carolina needs to retain a bit.

Lol. What exactly is Carolina retaining on? Necas is an unsigned RFA.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

I'm a huge fan of Podz and think he wil breakout this year but that's a fair assessment but gotta disagree about Garland being a bottom sixer.
When given top six roles in Phoenix an his first year here here put up good numbers. Even last year he still put solid numbers considering most all his points are at 5on5. I think it's safe to say with pp1 time and top six minutes he's a guy that can get 60+ points based on his body of work
Canes fans will immediately shit on this proposal and say Necas has more value but given the fact that no trade has happened points to teams not wanting to meet the ask.
End of the day a a 1st, a 50-60 point agitator and a prospect that at worst will still be a solid defensive winger with upside as a a power forward (they take longer) isnt a bad offer at all.
I think the canes want more and will simply keep him if they dont get it and that's probably smart given their shitty summer so far.

There was a trade for Necas to Columbus around the draft that was apparently nixed because Necas wouldn't sign a long term deal there, and a rumor going around of the same thing with a trade to the Jets (no one has confirmed that though) So some teams seem willing to meet the price but Necas isn't willing to extend with those teams.

Which could also be an issue with Vancouver since Necas is looking for PP1 time and to be a center. Vancouver's top 2 centers are pretty much locked up a think right?

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Hard to justify going into the season with Kuznetsov/Garland/Roslovic as the 4th best forward offensively.

Macro view, this may be a reset year for the Canes. That should only happen organically, however. Actively making it so is defeatism you expect from fans, not management.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Nothing really here to justify the canes doing this deal, pass

 

[LordBacon]

Lol. What exactly is Carolina retaining on? Necas is an unsigned RFA.

Huh couldve sworn I saw him on a 2 year 6mil contract, my mistake.
Guess that was the recently expired contract.
Im too lazy to look it up lol.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Huh couldve sworn I saw him on a 2 year 6mil contract, my mistake.
Guess that was the recently expired contract.
Im too lazy to look it up lol.

He was on a 2 x $3m bride deal. He has 2 more years of team control and it's going to arbitration so he will have his amount locked in (whatever it ends up being) for essentially 2 years.

Canes and Canucks don't seem to be good trading partners as any of the pieces the Canes would want as a main return for Necas wouldn't be available.

 

[Johnsie19]

I agree with all of this but frankly Garland is just the type of player fanbase don't get excited about and Necas is as he has this untapped potential when the reality is that Garland is probably better than most people think and Necas will never be as good as some people think.

They produce about the same at even strength. And Garland doesn't play PP1 in Van. That said Garland is def a fan favorite type of player. He can play in super tight spaces because of incredible edge work, he'll hang onto the puck instead of just dumping it and is just game for the battle. Fans love him.

 

[Johnsie19]

Unless the Canucks are extremely high on Necas I think they’d say no.

Seeing as he’s had consistency issues under a great but demanding coach in Brindamour, don’t see why that would be any different with Tocchet.

Garland while slightly overpaid is of value to the Canucks, adding both Podkolzin AND a first seems like an overpayment.

The idea from my POV is the Canucks have concrete interest in Necas we know that from the Petey talks. We still need a winger for Petey to play with. And we signed a number of guys who can play 3rd line wing in Heinen, Sherwood, Joshua so replacing Garland is mitigated.

That said it's a risk because it was Garland that drove what was one of the better 3rd lines in hockey. Necas is a homerun swing and in my estimation a pretty good bet given age and past performance.

 

[Johnsie19]

no thanks

I just don't really want Necas at all, and Garland is a much better posession player, which is what Tocchet likes. He makes every line he's on better.

Necas has better possession stats. Now that could be a product of him teammates but he is def used to possessing the puck.

Garland def makes the 3rd line go but he couldn't play in the top 6 really. Whenever we tried it it didn't really work. He's top 6 calibre no doubt but I'm pushing back on the idea he makes every line better. He does make one line better though thats for sure.

I'd do it, but Carolina needs to retain a bit.

Why?

I actually have always liked Garland for the Canes. Not for Necas though. There’s got to be one really good, young asset in the deal. I don’t see it here.

Garland is only 28 so fits your window, replaces all of Necas' production at even strength and is cheaper, add a prospect and 1st its pretty good.

 

[Rowlet]

Necas has better possession stats. Now that could be a product of him teammates but he is def used to possessing the puck.

Garland def makes the 3rd line go but he couldn't play in the top 6 really. Whenever we tried it it didn't really work. He's top 6 calibre no doubt but I'm pushing back on the idea he makes every line better. He does make one line better though thats for sure.

Garland over his career at ES:

Necas over his career at ES:

Necas has never been better relative to his team at corsi or fenwick, outside of a season where he played a single game. Garland has always been better. Necas may have better raw numbers, but that's just because he's played on one of the consistently best analytics teams over the last 5 years.

 

[Johnsie19]

Garland over his career at ES:

View attachment 893846

Necas over his career at ES:

View attachment 893847

Necas has never been better relative to his team at corsi or fenwick, outside of a season where he played a single game. Garland has always been better. Necas may have better raw numbers, but that's just because he's played on one of the consistently best analytics teams over the last 5 years.

I'm not totally sure how to read this but to argue for Necas while he's -1.4 rel that's still higher than Garland. Carolina obv known as a possession team but I'm not sure how you can conclude that Garland is so much better in possession. At the very least Necas is used to playing with the puck given his near 60% corsi.

 

[Rowlet]

I'm not totally sure how to read this but to argue for Necas while he's -1.4 rel that's still higher than Garland. Carolina obv known as a possession team but I'm not sure how you can conclude that Garland is so much better in possession. At the very least Necas is used to playing with the puck given his near 60% corsi.

Necas' -1.4 relative to his teammates largely means he's a product of the system he plays in. Garland being better than his team average means he is a posession driver while Necas is a passenger.

The overall corsi numbers aren't a 1:1 comparison because the Canucks are not a "good" corsi team, they bleed shots against and don't shoot the puck as much as they could while Carolina takes tons of shots, over 5 more per game.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

The Canes aren't moving Necas without getting a premium asset in return. I highly doubt they'd be happy moving quality for quantity.

 

[Hoglander]

The fact that the Canes aren't doing practically whatever it takes to keep a fairly young core piece, throws up some red flags. Either the player is high maintenance and is making demands about his role on the team, or the Canes don't really think he's all that great of a player, and not worth whatever his next contract is going to be. Doesn't sound like a player that I'd want to spend significant assets for.

With the addition of DeBrusk, I think this suggests that the Canucks have moved on from trying to acquire Necas anyways. They now have the makings of 3 solid lines on the strength of 3 pairings of forwards: EP/DeBrusk, Miller/Boeser, Garland/Joshua. There really isn't room capwise, for another big caphit up front. Not without destroying the forward depth. I'm glad it looks like the Canucks are out on this one.