Proposal: Carolina/Minnesota blockbuster

[tarheelhockey]

Player-for-player this isn’t that bad. The pushback is going to come from the fact that these players are all highly ingrained in their organizations (except Rantanen of course) and there is a lot of risk both ways that this busts due to contracts, so both sides are going to want an overpay.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Side question:

If Kaprizov came with an extension this summer, would Carolina fans do Kaprizov for Jarvis + Nikishin? Assuming Rantanen isn't re-signed.

 

[Rec T]

I can't imagine that Carolina would trade him without letting prospective teams talking to him/his agent first. Only because they can then maximize value by trading him to a place that wants him long term that he wants to go to. The receiving team would/should be willing to pay more as he's not just a couple of months rental. Sure he could be traded as a straight rental to someone but it would be a lesser return.

(unless he said that he'd go to 'x' team and only 'x' long term...that kind of puts them over a barrel negotiation wise)

 

[rynryn]

Opinion but Kaprizov is better than Rants, and the gulf will widen in the future. Much rather pay him the money. The gulf between Brodin and Slavin isn't huge. Brodin+Faber is a fantastic pair already; we wouldn't be gaining much performance defensively IMO. Better, yes, but not enough better to risk what we'd be risking.
100% okay with Carolina not liking this either. It wouldn't be a blockbuster if it weren't stars and superstars being traded, and they wouldn't be superstars and stars if no one worried about removing them from their team.

 

[HFpapi]

Fair or not, I'm much more comfortable giving Kaprizov that kind of money than I am Rantanen. Still TBD what he is away from MacKinnon, but the start hasn't been great. Right here, right now, the idea of that contract makes me pretty queasy.

I agree with you on that assessment 100% as a neutral fan. Kaprizov IMO is far more proven as a guy who can produce independent of any linemates.

That said, I feel like that's burying the lead. What I assumed would be the main event of this trade for Wild fans is reuniting that Faber-Slavin pairing. Whatever small downgrade you feel Rantanen is to Kaprizov, surely it's worth that?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I agree with you on that assessment 100% as a neutral fan. Kaprizov IMO is far more proven as a guy who can produce independent of any linemates.

That said, I feel like that's burying the lead. What I assumed would be the main event of this trade for Wild fans is reuniting that Faber-Slavin pairing. Whatever small downgrade you feel Rantanen is to Kaprizov, surely it's worth that?

My concern about Rantanen still probably holds the day.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Honestly I think Carolina would be hesitant as Kaprizov is pretty much out for the year and his recovery for next year is questionable.

 

[WaW]

Not as bad as people who still think every athlete that turns 30 is washed, devoid of value, and imminently going to fall off a cliff.

Tons of players have been having the best years of their careers in that 29-35 age range lately. Medical science + in-season diet, nutrition, and recovery, + off season training is far better than it used to be. 32 isn't ancient anymore.


Are you forgetting Slavin is part of this?

Sorry can you quote the strawman for me so I can see what you were arguing with?

Who said "every player past 30 is devoid of any value, guaranteed to imminently fall off, etc?"

My point was clear as day. Trends suggest Slavin will sooner rather than later fall off. If he doesn't, good for him, but the math is on my side.

No one can predict the future, but we can look at recent historical trends to determine what is more likely to happen.

Sure, Slavin *might* be a rare physical exception (this has nothing to do with skill or talent) and remains as elite as he is now into his mid-late 30s.

Where your argument falls apart is that you're assuming it's reasonable for a team trading for a player to act as if this statistical improbability you seem so certain of, is *absolutely going to happen*

 

[BKarchitect]

It’s a pretty fun NHL25 trade. That neither fanbase (for the most part) is jumping down your throat and acknowledges there are huge value pieces going both ways is a sign you did good lol.

I think Minnesota probably says no first, by a slight margin - simply because A) KK is the best “play driving” guy in this deal and B) Brodin and Faber is already fabulous - so while Slavin is one of the few true defenders I’d take over Brodin in a vacuum, I don’t think it changes any dynamics for them.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Your perspective is fair and understandable but I think with Kap going the other way + the buyouts off the books, I think the Wild would be maybe the best positioned team in the league to make Rantanen a mega offer than gets him to stay.

I indeed didn't guarantee a deal for Rantanen in OP and that is part of the calculus here but you can also deduce the chances that he stays with realistic variables like how much cap space the Wild would have and how attractive the team looks with JEE, Boldy, Faber, Slavin, Rossi, etc.

In fairness, Kap also only has 1 year left after this one. Not like he's on a 7 year deal himself.

The Wild having a good team and cap space doesn't guarantee a contract extension. I would rather take my chances signing Kaprizov this offseason with a year left on his deal. Trying to cram a Rantanen extension in, when he holds all of the leverage due to being a pending UFA, would be awful and is no doubt why you (Carolina) would try to force a deal like this.

If Rantanen comes with an extension then Minny needs to add and add pretty big.

What makes this tolerable for Carolina is that he doesn't.

The reason I think Minnesota should take the risk is because the Wild should be looking at Kaprizov's 9 million of outgoing salary + 14 million of buyouts coming off the book + a significant cap increase over the next 3 years and see no reason why they can't offer Rantanen 14.5 x 8 and force his hand to stay.

Minnesota doesn't need to accommodate or inheret Carolina's mistake of trading for Rantanen without an extension.

 

[ViD]

Seeing how Rantanen started in a new club, I wouldn’t trade the best player in the franchise history for him

 

[Voight]

I doubt Carlina was ever going to trade Slavin unless it was a fleece on their end but his play at the Four Nations definitely helped his case.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

It’s a pretty fun NHL25 trade. That neither fanbase (for the most part) is jumping down your throat and acknowledges there are huge value pieces going both ways is a sign you did good lol.

I think Minnesota probably says no first, by a slight margin - simply because A) KK is the best “play driving” guy in this deal and B) Brodin and Faber is already fabulous - so while Slavin is one of the few true defenders I’d take over Brodin in a vacuum, I don’t think it changes any dynamics for them.

I think people are tragically treating Brodin like a throw in on this trade. He is a very good defensive defenseman. Top 10, if not top 5, in terms of defensive capabilities.

 

[The S5]

Every GM in the NHL, with a team they feel is on the brink of contending for a Cup, would do anything they could to acquire Slavin. He is, and has been for years, the best defense first d-man in the NHL. As good as Makar is offensively, that's how good Slavin is defensively. It isn't anything that Canes fans don't already know.
The difference between Kaprizov and Rantaanan isn't nearly as big and that between Slavin and Brodin.
Tulsky says thank you for the offer, but we will pass.

 

[HFpapi]

Sorry can you quote the strawman for me so I can see what you were arguing with?

Who said "every player past 30 is devoid of any value, guaranteed to imminently fall off, etc?"

My point was clear as day. Trends suggest Slavin will sooner rather than later fall off. If he doesn't, good for him, but the math is on my side.

No one can predict the future, but we can look at recent historical trends to determine what is more likely to happen.

Sure, Slavin *might* be a rare physical exception (this has nothing to do with skill or talent) and remains as elite as he is now into his mid-late 30s.

Where your argument falls apart is that you're assuming it's reasonable for a team trading for a player to act as if this statistical improbability you seem so certain of, is *absolutely going to happen*

Literally the age range of everyone involved in this trade is 4 years. 27-31.

In fact, the 27 year old is 28 in like 6 weeks.

Bodies don't deteriorate like a fine science. Nothing suggests Slavin will decline any faster than Kaprizov. at 30, Slavin is better now than he's ever been.

 

[AKL]

I think people are tragically treating Brodin like a throw in on this trade. He is a very good defensive defenseman. Top 10, if not top 5, in terms of defensive capabilities.

Yeah I was gonna say, Slavin obviously made a name for himself in the tournament, but if he's #1, Brodin is #5 at worst in terms of defensive defensemen.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Every GM in the NHL, with a team they feel is on the brink of contending for a Cup, would do anything they could to acquire Slavin. He is, and has been for years, the best defense first d-man in the NHL. As good as Makar is offensively, that's how good Slavin is defensively. It isn't anything that Canes fans don't already know.
The difference between Kaprizov and Rantaanan isn't nearly as big and that between Slavin and Brodin.
Tulsky says thank you for the offer, but we will pass.

Got proof to back that claim up?

 

[MikeFolignosHelmet]

Slavin just signed a team friendly 8 yr deal. He's not moving.

 

[The S5]

Yeah I was gonna say, Slavin obviously made a name for himself in the tournament, but if he's #1, Brodin is #5 at worst in terms of defensive defensemen.

Maybe with the average fan, but Slavin isn't a secret around the league. He doesn't make the nightly highlight reels because shut down defense doesn't get views.

Got proof to back that claim up?

None that would change a Wild fans mind.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

None

That's what I thought.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Fair or not, as much as there is a post-4 Nations glow on Slavin, there's a bit of a post-MacKinnon shade on Rantanen right now.

The upgrade from Brodin to Slavin probably isn't worth the risk that Rantanen isn't as close to the driver that Kaprizov is, considering the price tag that's going to come with him.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Fair or not, as much as there is a post-4 Nations glow on Slavin, there's a bit of a post-MacKinnon shade on Rantanen right now.

The upgrade from Brodin to Slavin probably isn't worth the risk that Rantanen isn't as close to the driver that Kaprizov is, considering the price tag that's going to come with him.

Not to mention that LD spot next to Faber will be occupied by Zeev Buium very soon. Then we have Brodin/Middleton/Chisholm to figure out the last 2 LD lineup spots.

 

[Hockeyfan200]

in what world do you actually think wild are trading their stud franchise player whose untouchable and same thing with their stud Dman in Jonas Brodin whose Untouchable. Holy Crapo, Absolutely Not for Wild. They aren't waiving either

How so? I thought Wild fans would be all for it and Canes fans wanting to puke.

You'd have the best defensive pairing in hockey for the next 5-6 years and I think with Kaprizov's cap hit moved out and the buy-outs coming off the books this off season, you can afford to throw a monster offer at Rantanen.

Would you be in favour of this if you knew for sure Rantanen would re-sign?

Kaprizov is our Franchise Player and Brodin is a complete stud Dman . In what world do you actually think this is fair or that wild would win this? lol

 

[Chan790]

in what world do you actually think wild are trading their stud franchise player whose untouchable and same thing with their stud Dman in Jonas Brodin whose Untouchable. Holy Crapo, Absolutely Not for Wild. They aren't waiving either

Because that's what it costs to acquire top talent like Rantanen and Slavin. I mean, I don't like it for Carolina either and hope it doesn't happen...but none of these guys are being moved for magic beans or a package of "meh."

Superstar trades cost superstar assets...and that's why we never see them happen.

 

[Hockeyfan200]

I agree with you on that assessment 100% as a neutral fan. Kaprizov IMO is far more proven as a guy who can produce independent of any linemates.

That said, I feel like that's burying the lead. What I assumed would be the main event of this trade for Wild fans is reuniting that Faber-Slavin pairing. Whatever small downgrade you feel Rantanen is to Kaprizov, surely it's worth that?

You should watch Brodin more. Brodin is a total stud. He's not a thrown in. Are you forgetting that? Don't act like you put Brodin in this. Again Kaprizov is our franchise, and Brodin is a stud, total stud. He's not getting traded, and highly won't waive his NMC