Tribute Carl Gunnarsson vs. Tim Liljegren - a historical comparison.

[Martin Skoula]

yes and its the case because cant hold players hands. They can teach you what you have to do and whats they expect from you but they cant giving you extra opportunities in game to practice those part of the game like its the case in the AHL, CHK, NCAA... you need to deliver or someone else will

Who are the other RHDs we have delivering instead of Liljegren right now?

 

[stickty111]

Keefe has proven time and time again he can't develop d men. Dermott and Sandin couldn't take the next step under him. Everytime Lilly has been about to, Keefe knocks him down. With better coaching, Liljegren is likely a staple on our top 4. Pairing him with 40 year old Gio doesn't help. Keefe is the biggest problem related to Lilly, along with him being unable to stay healthy.

 

[arso40]

Coaching isn’t the issue. Liljegren can’t make plays under pressure. I said this years ago and got killed. He just isn’t going to be a consistent top 4 guy because he’s so prone to making turn overs. To me he’s a tweezer, he can give you top 4 minutes in segments. But he’s best suited as a bottom pairing defender. He’s not physical enough to be a top 4 guy and his game hasn’t exploded offensively like we’ve hoped. I’m not sure what his identity as a defender is. That’s on Liljegren

Ive seen him not do that for extended periods as well so I’ll disagree it has to be coaching he’s being coached down not up

 

[francis246]

If seen him not do that for extended periods as well so I’ll disagree it has to be coaching he’s being coached down not up

What does that even mean? Coaching down and not coached up? I feel like people just throw terms around. At this level it comes down to being able to execute. If you have flaws in your game no amount of coaching is going to cover that up and that’s the issue with all these defensemen Toronto has had. Liljegren, Dermott, Sandin. They all have flaws defensively and it’s exposed at the NHL level. They are good skaters, good puck movers but lack that physicality that allows them to be a top 4 guy. Hopefully we get better and drafting guys who are fully capable of defending while being mobile.

IMO Liljegren is what he is. He’s not a bad defenseman but he’s not a top pairing guy. Probably a lower end top 4 guy who could have good offensive production if given that chance/opportunity to run a pp unit. Maybe he’s a late bloomer. But I’m not really seeing and I haven’t ever seen him as a first pairing guy.

 

[arso40]

What does that even mean? Coaching down and not coached up? I feel like people just throw terms around. At this level it comes down to being able to execute. If you have flaws in your game no amount of coaching is going to cover that up and that’s the issue with all these defensemen Toronto has had. Liljegren, Dermott, Sandin. They all have flaws defensively and it’s exposed at the NHL level. They are good skaters, good puck movers but lack that physicality that allows them to be a top 4 guy. Hopefully we get better and drafting guys who are fully capable of defending while being mobile.

IMO Liljegren is what he is. He’s not a bad defenseman but he’s not a top pairing guy. Probably a lower end top 4 guy who could have good offensive production if given that chance/opportunity to run a pp unit. Maybe he’s a late bloomer. But I’m not really seeing and I haven’t ever seen him as a first pairing guy.

I would think it’s common sense what it means but I’ll try this instead of rippin your player In the media and ignoring the vets making the same or even more egregious errors you let them play and show them the mistakes they make does that make sense now?

 

[ACC1224]

Keefe isn't a very good coach but it's not automatic that players develop, sometimes they are what they are(and Lilijgren could still take another step).

Which defenseman have ripped it up since leaving the Leafs despite Keefes inabilities?

From afar, Lilijgren has always struck me as not being too bright. That may hold him back more than anything.

 

[arso40]

Keefe isn't a very good coach but it's not automatic that players develop, sometimes they are what they are(and Lilijgren could still take another step).

Which defenseman have ripped it up since leaving the Leafs despite Keefes inabilities?

From afar, Lilijgren has always struck me as not being too bright. That may hold him back more than anything.

Durzi looks pretty good but then he never really played for us

 

[arso40]

Keefe isn't a very good coach but it's not automatic that players develop, sometimes they are what they are(and Lilijgren could still take another step).

Which defenseman have ripped it up since leaving the Leafs despite Keefes inabilities?

From afar, Lilijgren has always struck me as not being too bright. That may hold him back more than anything.

You think he’s not too bright?seems like a reliable positionally sound defender not sure how he doesn’t seem bright he never misses sticc checcs at the blue line or when to close guys out on the wall not sure I agree but I can respect your opinion

 

[notDatsyuk]

Coaching isn’t the issue. Liljegren can’t make plays under pressure. I said this years ago and got killed. He just isn’t going to be a consistent top 4 guy because he’s so prone to making turn overs. To me he’s a tweezer, he can give you top 4 minutes in segments. But he’s best suited as a bottom pairing defender. He’s not physical enough to be a top 4 guy and his game hasn’t exploded offensively like we’ve hoped. I’m not sure what his identity as a defender is. That’s on Liljegren

That's possibly true for Liljegren, but that wasn't what my post was about. I was responding to a claim that players in the NHL couldn't improve because the coaches were only focused on winning and didn't have time to help the players.

Something like that - it was very bizarre logic at best.

 

[ULF_55]

Hes just 24 with 168 NHL games under his belt, 26 yrs old with 300 games will be all he can be.

He's coming off a high ankle sprain which could still be a little tender so we might not even be seeing his best at this point in his career.

Right now I can see a guy who should be a #4 who would pair up with a good offensive puck moving partner. He can play the 1st PK which is a huge asset. He really does need to stay healthy though

Agree with this.

And the high ankle sprain, is a thing and something he is probably playing through.

I think Rielly has improved the past couple years, after playing 500 games.

Muscle memory from having seen everything and played against everything for years.

 

[ULF_55]

That's possibly true for Liljegren, but that wasn't what my post was about. I was responding to a claim that players in the NHL couldn't improve because the coaches were only focused on winning and didn't have time to help the players.

Something like that - it was very bizarre logic at best.

That makes zero sense.

Goes right back to the, "only if the player is NHL ready do you play him in the NHL."

How the frick does anyone know if the player is ready for the NHL without ever playing in the NHL.

The logic seems to be:

"Is Grebenkin ready for the NHL?"
"Don't know."
"Can't play him in the NHL then."
"We could try."
"But he might not be ready. Can't play him until he is ready."

"Player coaching and development only takes place before the player is in the NHL." WHAT????

 

[Anthrax442]

I voted for Gunny because he was good in his prime, but I think we haven't seen close to Lilly's prime yet.

 

[Its not your fault]

I really don’t see the similarities between the two to be honest.

Pretty much this pool surprised me safe bet is Carl but there's dozens of him. Lilly just isn't one.

 

[Stephen]

Coaching isn’t the issue. Liljegren can’t make plays under pressure. I said this years ago and got killed. He just isn’t going to be a consistent top 4 guy because he’s so prone to making turn overs. To me he’s a tweezer, he can give you top 4 minutes in segments. But he’s best suited as a bottom pairing defender. He’s not physical enough to be a top 4 guy and his game hasn’t exploded offensively like we’ve hoped. I’m not sure what his identity as a defender is. That’s on Liljegren

Liljegren has a bit of the Jake Gardiner DNA where he can be targeted for a tough physical forecheck and this will soften him up mentally. Also like Gardiner it’s not like he’s a goober all over the ice but is one of those guys who can be prone to a high profile, catastrophic turnover once in a while and it’s likely to burn the team. When he makes a mistake it’s the kind of mistakes in transition you can’t paper over. Ehh but he’s still young and developing.