Carey Price or Connor Hellebuyck

[jigglysquishy]

Uh what???

There was no surprise there at all. And if Roy was going to lose to anyone it would’ve been Claude Lemieux.

I just read through every game in the 86 playoffs for the HoH goalie project.

Carbonneau is mentioned as the Smythe favourite in the newspapers many times into the finals. Even when Roy wins the Smythe Carbonneau gets the attention.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I just read through every game in the 86 playoffs for the HoH goalie project.

Carbonneau is mentioned as the Smythe favourite in the newspapers many times into the finals. Even when Roy wins the Smythe Carbonneau gets the attention.

Roy winning was not a surprise to anyone.

 

[le_sean]

i think Plekanec was #1 center in those days, and it ignores Pacioretty and Subban.

Winnipeg is still quite a lot better, but this is misleading.

No, Desharnais was the #1 centre. He played with the best winger, all the time. He was on PP1.

Pacioretty was a good player, but when that’s your best forward, you’re going to not be a serious team. Subban was great, sure. So was Markov with his old age. But defencemen 3-6 were often garbage until Petry came. But even he’s average defensively.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

I don't think Price deserved the Hart

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I don't think Price deserved the Hart

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

Price. If anything, he is underrated on these boards.
Helleybuck has time to overtake him though.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

I helped run the HOH goalie project, and my ballot reflected my preference for the dreaded #eyetest when it comes to goalies.

I prefer Price by quite a lot, but I get those who'd take Hellebuyck on accomplishments at this point.

 

[Weezeric]

No, Desharnais was the #1 centre. He played with the best winger, all the time. He was on PP1.

Pacioretty was a good player, but when that’s your best forward, you’re going to not be a serious team. Subban was great, sure. So was Markov with his old age. But defencemen 3-6 were often garbage until Petry came. But even he’s average defensively.

So you would say that Mark Scheifele is better than any Habs forward over the last 20 years or so then?

 

[1specter]

Helle might have more regular season accomplishments at this point and more of a consistent career, but I take peak Price quite easily. Perhaps it is bias from all the times he owned the Leafs whereas the Leafs have often made Hellebuyck look fairly pedestrian, but Price on his game is truly exceptional and we saw how many times he carried very mid-level Habs squads that lacked star power. Montreal never had the level of firepower that the Jets have had during their peak era when Price was around. A guy like Ehlers alone would've been Montreal's best forward most years, then you add Connor, Scheifele, Wheeler before the decline, etc.

He was also pretty much perfect for Canada in 2014, of course the team up front made it easy, but even then you could see what he was capable of with an elite roster, which was basically perfection. Helle is yet to show that same level of resolve in crunch time situations, his career has been largely disappointing in meaningful games.

 

[Lshap]

For anyone who believes Price's reputation was based on one great season:

By the way, I'm a huge Hellebuyck fan. He deserves to round out his career with some solid playoff success, but as of now Price remains ahead based on more big-game success.

 

[Lshap]

Helle might have more regular season accomplishments at this point and more of a consistent career, but I take peak Price quite easily. Perhaps it is bias from all the times he owned the Leafs whereas the Leafs have often made Hellebuyck look fairly pedestrian, but Price on his game is truly exceptional and we saw how many times he carried very mid-level Habs squads that lacked star power. Montreal never had the level of firepower that the Jets have had during their peak era when Price was around. A guy like Ehlers alone would've been Montreal's best forward most years, then you add Connor, Scheifele, Wheeler before the decline, etc.

He was also pretty much perfect for Canada in 2014, of course the team up front made it easy, but even then you could see what he was capable of with an elite roster, which was basically perfection. Helle is yet to show that same level of resolve in crunch time situations, his career has been largely disappointing in meaningful games.

2014 Olympics was really spectacular. Price allowed a total of 3 goals in 5 games, including shutouts against the US and Sweden.

Some diminish his performance by saying the rest of the team made it easy. That's crap. Nobody was helping Price stop all those shots. It's just as accurate to say the rest of the team had it easy thanks to having Price in nets.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I choose Hellebuyck because I love what he's done with my Winnipeg Jets and has given it his all. He's going down as one of the top-ten goalies of all-time when he hangs them up. He's probably also the smartest goalie ever.

Carey Price is incredible on very bad teams. I still think they should retire his number considering he has two olympic gold medals which some argue Jose Theodore should also be retired but JT60 doesn't have a single Olympic appearance. If Price was on Chicago I imagine they'd probably pull off five straight cups.

 

[shello]

Still Price. You have to look at the teams each played on. Habs were sending out the ghosts of Scott Gomez and Markov with Price playing 70+ games, while the Jets are a well built team that can actually score and defend

 

[paragon]

For anyone who believes Price's reputation was based on one great season:

View attachment 1000358

By the way, I'm a huge Hellebuyck fan. He deserves to round out his career with some solid playoff success, but as of now Price remains ahead based on more big-game success.

This is the problem with Price. He really doesn't stand out. Even when you cherry-pick his best prime.

 

[Coffey]

He really doesn't stand out. Even when you cherry-pick his best prime.

What?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The funny part is watching them talk out of both sides of their mouths with regards to players on those Habs teams.

In a Price thread he gets painted as a god carrying a team of beer leaguers to the playoffs on his back as broad as the great white north.

In other threads, Markov got robbed of Norris votes/wins, Kovalev and Koivu should've won Harts, Pacioretty is the most underrated goal scorer of the 2010s and Plekanec was as good as Bergeron

I’ll take five strawman arguments for 500 Alex.

 

[Lshap]

This is the problem with Price. He really doesn't stand out. Even when you cherry-pick his best prime.

Yes, being at the top of the list of goalies makes it hard for Price to stand out. I understand how you missed him there.

As for 'cherry picking', you realize I posted 7 consecutive seasons of his prime, right?

Would you be happier if I posted Price's stats since he retired?

 

[paragon]

What?

View attachment 1000594

It was just all the stars lining up. The only season he was the best goalie in the league happened to be the year when no one topped 87 points. And Price barely edged Dubnyk and Mason on stats. There have been way better goaltending performances in the last 20 years that didn't end up winning Hart or Lindsay because scoring was higher.

For example Sheshterkin, Ulmark and Bobrovsky have had more dominant years where they had to settle on Vezina.

I'm not saying Price wasn't good. He just wasn't above the pack even he lucked his way to a Hart and Lindsay. He's on the same tier as Lundqvist, Rask, Miller, Luongo, Rinne, Bishop, Fleury, Holtby, Vasilevskiy, Bobrovsky, Sheshterkin or Hellebuyck.

 

[paragon]

Yes, being at the top of the list of goalies makes it hard for Price to stand out. I understand how you missed him there.

As for 'cherry picking', you realize I posted 7 consecutive seasons of his prime, right?

Would you be happier if I posted Price's stats since he retired?

You could add a couple seasons to the end or beginning.

Even when being at the top of the timeline you picked he has close to identical stats to the top 5. That's why he doesn't really stand out.

Or just don't cut all goalies with less than 300 games on that period to drop Tim Thomas from the top spot.

 

[Lshap]

You could add a couple seasons to the end or beginning.

Even when being at the top of the timeline you picked he has close to identical stats to the top 5. That's why he doesn't really stand out.

Or just don't cut all goalies with less than 300 games on that period to drop Tim Thomas from the top spot.

So in a thread discussing Carey Price's prime, you're upset that I used the seasons... um... from his prime...? And including goalies with far fewer games proves what exactly??

Do you realize how stunningly illogical your take is?

 

[Bouboumaster]

i think Plekanec was #1 center in those days, and it ignores Pacioretty and Subban.

Winnipeg is still quite a lot better, but this is misleading.

You will have to think again

Plekasex was our 2nd line center

 

[Bouboumaster]

So you would say that Mark Scheifele is better than any Habs forward over the last 20 years or so then?

Pretty much, aside of Nick Suzuki

 

[ZDH]

Wake me up when Conner takes a team that's ABSOLUTE DOGSHIT to the SCF let alone takes this Jets team to the SCF.

That Montreal team was arguably the worst team ever to make the finals...

 

[Duke749]

A 3rd Vezina AND a deep playoff run for Helly and it’s him. But until then…

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Helly isn’t a pos human being like Price and his sort are. On that alone, he’s passed that turd Price.