Carey Price or Connor Hellebuyck

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The funny part is watching them talk out of both sides of their mouths with regards to players on those Habs teams.

In a Price thread he gets painted as a god carrying a team of beer leaguers to the playoffs on his back as broad as the great white north.

In other threads, Markov got robbed of Norris votes/wins, Kovalev and Koivu should've won Harts, Pacioretty is the most underrated goal scorer of the 2010s and Plekanec was as good as Bergeron
Eh. I think you’re exaggerating a bit but habs fans do overrate our players. I was simply responding to the guy that said carey price was “often subpar “ in the playoffs which really isn’t true when you look at the numbers. Yes he had some very bad years when he was younger but he was dynamite in the postseason during the second half of his career.

I’ve come to appreciate price more now that he’s retired, and especially after his 20 and 21 playoffs, but i never felt he was as good as his reputation suggested.
 
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The funny part is watching them talk out of both sides of their mouths with regards to players on those Habs teams.

In a Price thread he gets painted as a god carrying a team of beer leaguers to the playoffs on his back as broad as the great white north.

In other threads, Markov got robbed of Norris votes/wins, Kovalev and Koivu should've won Harts, Pacioretty is the most underrated goal scorer of the 2010s and Plekanec was as good as Bergeron
you being a Bruins fan would make you more in tune with this than me, but i have seen the same with other 'tribes'

Definitely a reccurring theme to talk your guys up every which way, no matter how contradictory. Ive got a good buddy who is a Pens fan. Great guy, when hockey comes up, especially Crosby or Ovechkin, i just start looking for the nearest beer.
 
With all due respect to Helly, not even f***ing close.

To me, Carey Price was truly generational, he just never had the proper support he needed to win the cup. Put him on any of the Jets teams of the past 6-7 years and I'm positive they win at least 1 Stanley Cup, the guy was THAT good.

Montreals defence was decent during his time, but the offense was quite literally non-existent, maybe the worst offence in the league during his entire career.

People really forgot how good Price was, in my opinion he was a better goalie than Vasi. Idc if Vasi has cups, trade them 1 for 1 for one another and Price is winning the Smythe + Cup.

I'll take him over anyone in the last 25 years not named Brodeur.
 
Eh. I think you’re exaggerating a bit but habs fans do overrate our players. I was simply responding to the guy that said carey price was “often subpar “ in the playoffs which really isn’t true when you look at the numbers. Yes he had some very bad years when he was younger but he was dynamite in the postseason during the second half of his career.

I’ve come to appreciate price more now that he’s retired, and especially after his 20 and 21 playoffs, but i never felt he was as good as his reputation suggested.
so, good post. im that guy.

Here is the thing, and this is a fault of mine - its not that he didnt have good runs later... in fact, my whole stance has very little to do with Carey Price himself, or as a goalie. Its that, after those poor runs which ran basically the first half of his career, nobody held his name to task for them. I remember, because I was watching for it. So, when he finally started to play well it was just swept under the rug. I remember hearing how he was going to be so good that chucking a red hot Halak to the side made perfect sense. And then when he failed to live up t9 the promise, and for a good long time, it never ever was brought up. Its like everyone was holding their breath and when he finally had his big year it was "there we go, told ya so"

He was a good goalie, I just have never seen anyone ever be given the kid glove treatment like him. I think even Bedard is starting to get a bit of heat, now, in comparison, and he is really young and the hockey experts went embarassingly all in on him in their predictions. Price's grace period was unlike anything ive seen, but i could also be wrong/forgetting someone/have focused in too much on him.... i dunno, i dont dislike the guy, though, so i dont think im that biased in this case.
 
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Depends how you look at it. Goalies are as good as the team in front of them. But then again, Price had major studs throughout his whole career like Gomez, Desharnais, Gionta, Cole, Eller etc. Playing in front of him. So with all those studs, winner has to go be Helle here, right?
 
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Depends how you look at it. Goalies are as good as the team in front of them. But then again, Price had major studs throughout his whole career like Gomez, Desharnais, Gionta, Cole, Eller etc. Playing in front of him. So with all those studs, winner has to go be Helle here, right?

I mean, lets be fair a stud top pairing like Pionk-Morrisey is going to carry any goalie to the Vezina.
 
The “he did it on shit teams” argument have always been so weird to me and it’s mostly a thing for modern goalies. Like literally no one says things like “Tomas Vokoun is better than Patrick Roy because he carried teams that sucked”.
Differnt era back then when goalies made a huge difference. This day and age, margin is so small, you can pretty much put any goalie on a stacked team and win a cup. And it's happend many times in the past 20 years or so.

Examples Ward, Giguere, Niemi, Crawford, Murray, Holtby, Binngton, Kemper, Hill etc.

Most of those goalies left the said stacked team to play else where, but all the sudden, they fell off a cliff and forgot how to play goalie, right?

A goalie once again the the NHL is only as good as the team infront of them. If you ever played goalie, you would agree. No matter how good you are. Especially in the pro's.

Put Price on Tampa or Chicago during their cup runs and he has 3-4 cups as well.
 
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They did, but they lacked the depth of the 86 team.

Roy was the runaway Smythe favourite in 93. Whereas in 86 it was a suprise victory over Carbonneau.
Right, anyways my point was simply that it’s used as an argument when talking about Roy quite often. The poor offensive Sabres teams is also used to prop up Hasek regularly.
 
Depends how you look at it. Goalies are as good as the team in front of them. But then again, Price had major studs throughout his whole career like Gomez, Desharnais, Gionta, Cole, Eller etc. Playing in front of him. So with all those studs, winner has to go be Helle here, right?
Who did Hellebuyck have playing in front of him when he won the Vezina in 2020?
Differnt era back then when goalies made a huge difference. This day and age, margin is so small, you can pretty much put any goalie on a stacked team and win a cup. And it's happend many times in the past 20 years or so.

Examples Ward, Giguere, Niemi, Crawford, Murray, Holtby, Binngton, Kemper, Hill etc.

Most of those goalies left the said stacked team to play else where, but all the sudden, they fell off a cliff and forgot how to play goalie, right?

A goalie once again the the NHL is only as good as the team infront of them. If you ever played goalie, you would agree. No matter how good you are. Especially in the pro's.

Put Price on Tampa or Chicago during their cup runs and he has 3-4 cups as well.
Giguere and Holtby are amazingly poor examples of "any goalie on a stacked team." Before his 2018 Stanley Cup win, Holtby had more playoff runs into the second round with a .940+ save percentage (2) than he did with a playoff runs with a <.920 save percentage. Holtby fell apart as a goalie long before he left the Capitals. Before he did, he was a hell of a lot closer to #1 in the league than he was to average.

And Giguere obviously won the Conn Smythe in 2003 before winning the Stanley Cup in 2007.
 
so, good post. im that guy.

Here is the thing, and this is a fault of mine - its not that he didnt have good runs later... in fact, my whole stance has very little to do with Carey Price himself, or as a goalie. Its that, after those poor runs which ran basically the first half of his career, nobody held his name to task for them. I remember, because I was watching for it. So, when he finally started to play well it was just swept under the rug. I remember hearing how he was going to be so good that chucking a red hot Halak to the side made perfect sense. And then when he failed to live up t9 the promise, and for a good long time, it never ever was brought up. Its like everyone was holding their breath and when he finally had his big year it was "there we go, told ya so"

He was a good goalie, I just have never seen anyone ever be given the kid glove treatment like him. I think even Bedard is starting to get a bit of heat, now, in comparison, and he is really young and the hockey experts went embarassingly all in on him in their predictions. Price's grace period was unlike anything ive seen, but i could also be wrong/forgetting someone/have focused in too much on him.... i dunno, i dont dislike the guy, though, so i dont think im that biased in this case.
kid gloves is a very fair term
 
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Carey Price on this current Jets roster and they would be a favorite in the West every year. This Jets team is built very similar to the 2000-2005 Devils where they had some very good players, great depth but no superstars
 
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Playoff performance means a lot when comparing two talented players. Price obviously wins in that category and it's not even close. Hellebuyck still has some years to right the ship regarding his playoff performance. As of now Price is ahead. He had multiple years of incredible playoff performances.
 
Why do people put so much emphasis on playoffs ?

Don’t get me wrong , they definitely have some weight in the argument, but they are such a small sample size in a players career that I really don’t think it should have that much weight.

Also people are so selective that it’s just weird.

Price definitely is better than Hellebuyck in the playoffs so far, but he wasn’t some playoffs monster and a dominant run to a semifinals for Hellebuyck this year would pretty much make them even. With the way people are talking about playoffs Price under this thread, you’d think he have three Stanley Cups and two Conn Smythes.

Stanley Cups: 0-0
Stanley Cup Finals: 1-0 Price
Conference Finals: 1-1
Second-Rounds: 3-1 Price
Made the playoffs: 10-6 Price

I’m sure no one would say that Tim Thomas is better than Carey Price despite HIM being a playoffs monster… That’s just bizarre to me.
 
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Why do people put so much emphasis on playoffs ?

Don’t get me wrong , they definitely have some weight in the argument, but they are such a small sample size in a players career that I really don’t think it should have that much weight.

Also people are so selective that it’s just weird.

Price definitely is better than Hellebuyck in the playoffs so far, but he wasn’t some playoffs monster and a dominant run to a semifinals for Hellebuyck this year would pretty much make them even. With the way people are talking about playoffs Price under this thread, you’d think he have three Stanley Cups and two Conn Smythes.

Stanley Cups: 0-0
Stanley Cup Finals: 1-0 Price
Conference Finals: 1-1
Second-Rounds: 3-1 Price
Made the playoffs: 10-6 Price

I’m sure no one would say that Tim Thomas is better than Carey Price despite HIM being a playoffs monster… That’s just bizarre to me.
they will tell you that Thomas didnt have enough of a body of work. Then they will tell you that Lundqvist and Luongo, who have a massive body of work, didnt quite hit the peak that Price did.

It is all fair, I guess, and reminds me of Hart arguments - it just comes down to who you like most and then finding an argument that supports them. Seeing as its so rare for someone to have all the best numbers in all categories, we all just go around and around, and you can legitimately guess what someone is going to say based off of their location or avatar.
 
Hellebuyck is great, but he has a really good team in front of him. Price’s prime had Desharnais as the 1C and guys like Tom Gilbert getting Top 4 minutes.
 
Hellebuyck is great, but he has a really good team in front of him. Price’s prime had Desharnais as the 1C and guys like Tom Gilbert getting Top 4 minutes.
i think Plekanec was #1 center in those days, and it ignores Pacioretty and Subban.

Winnipeg is still quite a lot better, but this is misleading.
 
Hellebuyck is great, but he has a really good team in front of him. Price’s prime had Desharnais as the 1C and guys like Tom Gilbert getting Top 4 minutes.
Hellebuyck's first Vezina season had Luca Sbisa getting top 4 minutes. And Tucker Poolman. It's hard to put into words just how much of a NOT really good team that was.
 
Adjusting for era, Hellebuyck's got the edge in SV%.

The Jets have had a few bad teams over Hellebuyck's career as a starter, but the Habs had some pretty awful teams during Price's career that he dragged to the playoffs as well.

Price has been way better in the playoffs.
 
Why do people put so much emphasis on playoffs ?

Don’t get me wrong , they definitely have some weight in the argument, but they are such a small sample size in a players career that I really don’t think it should have that much weight.

Also people are so selective that it’s just weird.

Price definitely is better than Hellebuyck in the playoffs so far, but he wasn’t some playoffs monster and a dominant run to a semifinals for Hellebuyck this year would pretty much make them even. With the way people are talking about playoffs Price under this thread, you’d think he have three Stanley Cups and two Conn Smythes.

Stanley Cups: 0-0
Stanley Cup Finals: 1-0 Price
Conference Finals: 1-1
Second-Rounds: 3-1 Price
Made the playoffs: 10-6 Price

I’m sure no one would say that Tim Thomas is better than Carey Price despite HIM being a playoffs monster… That’s just bizarre to me.
um. Thomas had 2 vezinas and a conn smythe the year he won the cup. Shorter NHL career but I have him above Price easily.
 
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