Career Playoff Stats (in 32 games): AM: 13g/11a/24p/(-3) --- MM: 5g/20a/25p/(-1)

[93WrapAround]

Can we cut the nonsensical hot takes on Marner? I'm as disappointed in the guy as anyone, and you could argue that these past few days are the worst of his hockey career. But...

The way some of you are rambling on like Marner has been a colossal unmitigated disaster as a Leaf in the playoffs, while Matthews sees no criticism from these same folks, is an absolute joke.

The truth is they've both been equally bad in the playoffs and there's a good argument Matthews was worse than Marner in this series - Marner at least possessed the puck a ton, he just sucked. Matthews was nowhere to be found AT ALL. A ghost. Don't talk to me about all the hits he threw that amount to absolutely nothing when he's paid to put the puck in the back of the net, and that is why we lost - we didn't do that. Don't give me this old Leaf fan take of grit and heart, where every Leaf team of the last X amount of decades lived and died on said grit and heart in utter waste.

I'm not saying Marner should be immune to criticism, but the fact that some seem to crucify Marner alone, is ridiculous.

/vent and yes I realize you same ppl will come in and flame/ignore the realities.

Click to read more...

 

[A1LeafNation]

Matthews and Marner score 2 goals each and this is a short series.

Is that too much to ask from 11m players?

 

[Kurtz]

Can we cut the nonsensical hot takes on Marner? I'm as disappointed in the guy as anyone, and you could argue that these past few days are the worst of his hockey career. But...

The way some of you are rambling on like Marner has been a colossal unmitigated disaster as a Leaf in the playoffs, while Matthews sees no criticism from these same folks, is an absolute joke.

The truth is they've both been equally bad in the playoffs and there's a good argument Matthews was worse than Marner in this series - Marner at least possessed the puck a ton, he just sucked. Matthews was nowhere to be found AT ALL. A ghost. Don't talk to me about all the hits he threw that amount to absolutely nothing when he's paid to put the puck in the back of the net, and that is why we lost - we didn't do that. Don't give me this old Leaf fan take of grit and heart, where every Leaf team of the last X amount of decades lived and died on said grit and heart in utter waste.

I'm not saying Marner should be immune to criticism, but the fact that some seem to crucify Marner alone, is ridiculous.

/vent and yes I realize you same ppl will come in and flame/ignore the realities.

Wtf are you talking about? Hits matter in the playoffs - a lot. Matthews led our team in hits.

Matthews was also #2 in blocked shots, with 11. Mitch had 6 blocked shots.

Matthews also had 14 takeaways to 2 giveaways. Mitch had 4 takeaways and 6 giveaways - including a key one last night resulting in the first goal.

Matthews was also 55% on the draw.


Matthews did everything in this series, except couldn't bury the puck. Marner was absolutely useless other than his solid PK work up until the moment he put the puck over the wall and cost us game 6.

 

[CapspaceKiller]

Over the past 18 games

Marner 0g, 10a
Matthews 8g, 9a

Matthews was far from bad against Columbus like Marner was and Marner basically disappeared after game 3 against Boston while Matthews was pressing forward and playing the best hockey of his career to that point. Ridiculous take

 

[hamzarocks]

Matthews becomes a Ryan Johansen type playoff performer

Marner becomes a Johnny Gaudreau

Both are not good enough when factoring their contracts

If MM made 8M and AM 10M we have lower expectations and their play is acceptable align with having 4.5M in cap space giving us the space to add a top 6 winger who can maybe produce this series with these two going ghost.

 

[Gallagbi]

Marner's crumbled under the pressure of his deal and I don't think it's a coincidence

 

[1specter]

Matthews was the best player in 3/5 Leafs series. 2017 (as a rookie too), 2019 and 2020, and it was well known he was playing injured in 2018. Marner had one good series (2018) where he feasted on the PP and Bruins bottom pairing D while being fed OZ starts, but has been a total dud in every other series.

Matthews needs to be better, but there is a big difference in their performances in terms of career to date.

 

[Mess]

/vent and yes I realize you same ppl will come in and flame/ignore the realities.

Here are some realities for you to ponder.

5 playoff years for Matthews and Marner and 5 X 1st round losses. Stats spread out over 5 losing years <<<< same stats over a single playoff season that produces series wins in the process.

Here are Matthews and Marner stats in series clinching/elimination games of which there have been 8 so far.

Leafs record in those 8 games = 0 wins and 8 losses.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthews stats in those key 8 games = 1 goal 2 assists 3 points
&
Marner stats in those key 8 games = 0 goals 2 assists 2 points.

In fact Marner hasn't scored a goal for the Leafs in the playoffs dating back to game #1 of 2019 Boston series and 18 games ago and counting.

Now if you think that this is acceptable return for a pair of $11 mil players, and everything is fine than, that is likely living in an alternate reality where the Leafs actually winning and advancing in the playoffs doesn't seem to factor in to your defense.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Wtf are you talking about? Hits matter in the playoffs - a lot. Matthews led our team in hits.

Matthews was also #2 in blocked shots, with 11. Mitch had 6 blocked shots.

Matthews also had 14 takeaways to 2 giveaways. Mitch had 4 takeaways and 6 giveaways - including a key one last night resulting in the first goal.

Matthews was also 55% on the draw.


Matthews did everything in this series, except couldn't bury the puck. Marner was absolutely useless other than his solid PK work up until the moment he put the puck over the wall and cost us game 6.

At the end of the day Matthews has to put the puck in the net. I think the reason you're seeing Marner get so much flack and not Matthews is because of everything you listed. He played fine, but he's an 11M rocket winner and put up one goal in 7 games. He has to score period. No excuses come playoff time.

 

[hamzarocks]

Matthews was the best player in 3/5 Leafs series. 2017 (as a rookie too), 2019 and 2020, and it was well known he was playing injured in 2018. Marner had one good series (2018) where he feasted on the PP and Bruins bottom pairing D while being fed OZ starts, but has been a total dud in every other series.

Matthews needs to be better, but there is a big difference in their performances in terms of career to date.

It only became well known he was injured in 2018 after Plekanec took his job due to how bad he was against Bergeron.

Matthews sucked ass in 2018 and he wasn't injured. That's just an excuse people made up like how people said Jt was in injured in 2020 vs CBJ using his in season injuries to try and say they were lingering and cost him vs the jackets

Matthews in 2017 was good as were Marner and Nylander. None of them were better than the other.

In 2018 Marner was great, Matthews was horrible

In 2019 Matthews was great and marner was solid

2020 Matthews was good and Marner below average

2021 Both Matthews and Marner were terrible

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Can we cut the nonsensical hot takes on Marner? I'm as disappointed in the guy as anyone, and you could argue that these past few days are the worst of his hockey career. But...

The way some of you are rambling on like Marner has been a colossal unmitigated disaster as a Leaf in the playoffs, while Matthews sees no criticism from these same folks, is an absolute joke.

The truth is they've both been equally bad in the playoffs and there's a good argument Matthews was worse than Marner in this series - Marner at least possessed the puck a ton, he just sucked. Matthews was nowhere to be found AT ALL. A ghost. Don't talk to me about all the hits he threw that amount to absolutely nothing when he's paid to put the puck in the back of the net, and that is why we lost - we didn't do that. Don't give me this old Leaf fan take of grit and heart, where every Leaf team of the last X amount of decades lived and died on said grit and heart in utter waste.

I'm not saying Marner should be immune to criticism, but the fact that some seem to crucify Marner alone, is ridiculous.

/vent and yes I realize you same ppl will come in and flame/ignore the realities.

Matthews had a decent playoffs last year, so he's given more of a pass.

Marner, on the other hand, seems to be getting worse in the playoffs.

In his first 16 playoff games, Marner has 5 goals 16 points. In his last 16 playoff games, he has ZERO goals and 9 points.

Marner was better those first two years, which skews those stats. But those games are ancient history. He's disappeared in the playoffs.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

the marner contract negotiations were brutal; esp. considering he totally disappeared again, afraid to get hit etc. He had a whole year to at least improve his shot and get stronger- he did nothing, a real coward. Most of all his penalties were "shoots puck over glass". lmao. brutal.

 

[CapspaceKiller]

It only became well known he was injured in 2018 after Plekanec took his job due to how bad he was against Bergeron.

Matthews sucked ass in 2018 and he wasn't injured. That's just an excuse people made up like how people said Jt was in injured in 2020 vs CBJ using his in season injuries to try and say they were lingering and cost him vs the jackets

Matthews in 2017 was good as was Marner and Nylander

In 2018 Marner was great, Matthews was horrible

In 2019 Matthews was great and marner was solid

2020 Matthews was good and Marner below average

2021 Both Matthews and Marner were terrible

Re-watch the series. He was terrible, specifically games 4-7

 

[4thline]

You gamble on and forgive the beast of a C that tilts the ice in your favour recovering and not having the worst 7 games of shooting in his career every playoff.

You don't gamble on and forgive the guy who's 5v5 contribution completely relies on the finish of the other guy.

 

[93WrapAround]

Wtf are you talking about? Hits matter in the playoffs - a lot. Matthews led our team in hits.

Matthews was also #2 in blocked shots, with 11. Mitch had 6 blocked shots.

Matthews also had 14 takeaways to 2 giveaways. Mitch had 4 takeaways and 6 giveaways - including a key one last night resulting in the first goal.

Matthews was also 55% on the draw.


Matthews did everything in this series, except couldn't bury the puck. Marner was absolutely useless other than his solid PK work up until the moment he put the puck over the wall and cost us game 6.

lmao I'm sorry when you're paid $11M hits and blocked shots are NOT the non-negotiable expectations, but simply gravy. We lost because we couldn't outscore a putrid offence - AM had 1 goal after destroying the NHL field in the regular season. I stand by what I said, that AM was arguably worse than MM in this series. If you want to hang your hat on these non-factor stats for AM, it simply speaks to overarching point.

 

[93WrapAround]

Here are some realities for you to ponder.

5 playoff years for Matthews and Marner and 5 X 1st round losses. Stats spread out over 5 losing years <<<< same stats over a single playoff season that produces series wins in the process.

Here are Matthews and Marner stats in series clinching/elimination games of which there have been 8 so far.

Leafs record in those 8 games = 0 wins and 8 losses.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthews stats in those key 8 games = 1 goal 2 assists 3 points
&
Marner stats in those key 8 games = 0 goals 2 assists 2 points.

In fact Marner hasn't scored a goal for the Leafs in the playoffs dating back to game #1 of 2019 Boston series and 18 games ago and counting.

Now if you think that this is acceptable return for a pair of $11 mil players, and everything is fine than, that is likely living in an alternate reality where the Leafs actually winning and advancing in the playoffs doesn't seem to factor in to your defense.

You're preaching to the choir - my only point was Marner is being crucified by many on here with no similar critique for the 1 series goal wonder AM/Casper. They were both equally bad.

 

[Mats13]

Wtf are you talking about? Hits matter in the playoffs - a lot. Matthews led our team in hits.

Matthews was also #2 in blocked shots, with 11. Mitch had 6 blocked shots.

Matthews also had 14 takeaways to 2 giveaways. Mitch had 4 takeaways and 6 giveaways - including a key one last night resulting in the first goal.

Matthews was also 55% on the draw.


Matthews did everything in this series, except couldn't bury the puck. Marner was absolutely useless other than his solid PK work up until the moment he put the puck over the wall and cost us game 6.

Thank you!

I’m so tired of people trying to lump these two together. Matthews was working and trying. Marner was his anchor.

 

[Kurtz]

lmao I'm sorry when you're paid $11M hits and blocked shots are NOT the non-negotiable expectations, but simply gravy. We lost because we couldn't outscore a putrid offence - AM had 1 goal after destroying the NHL field in the regular season. I stand by what I said, that AM was arguably worse than MM in this series. If you want to hang your hat on these non-factor stats for AM, it simply speaks to overarching point.

If you think that hits, blocks, takeaways, faceoffs, etc are non-factor stats in the playoffs, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[1specter]

It only became well known he was injured in 2018 after Plekanec took his job due to how bad he was against Bergeron.

Matthews sucked ass in 2018 and he wasn't injured. That's just an excuse people made up like how people said Jt was in injured in 2020 vs CBJ using his in season injuries to try and say they were lingering and cost him vs the jackets

Matthews in 2017 was good as were Marner and Nylander. None of them were better than the other.

In 2018 Marner was great, Matthews was horrible

In 2019 Matthews was great and marner was solid

2020 Matthews was good and Marner below average

2021 Both Matthews and Marner were terrible

Strange, you say it became well known he was injured then you say he wasn't injured lol. Matthews missed a lot of time that season and the season after as well with nagging back and shoulder problems and it was reported that those were bothering him during the series so I'm inclined to believe that over your own baseless speculation.

2017 - completely false. Nylander was good yes, but Marner was pretty invisible outside of the PP. Marner also had mono so I give him a bit of a pass. Matthews led the team in goals

2018 - Marner was great but also faced Bruins bottom pairing D most of the series (this was confirmed by Stephen Burtch)

2019 - i have no idea what you watched here, Marner literally had one really good game (game 1), and one other game that was decent, and was garbage for the rest of the series

I agree with you on the other years.

 

[ShaneFalco]

When the other team can focus on AM b/c they know MM is 100% looking to pass and has no shot whatsoever.........

 

[hamzarocks]

Strange, you say it became well known he was injured then you say he wasn't injured lol. Matthews missed a lot of time that season and the season after as well with nagging back and shoulder problems and it was reported that those were bothering him during the series so I'm inclined to believe that over your own baseless speculation.

2017 - completely false. Nylander was good yes, but Marner was pretty invisible outside of the PP. Marner also had mono so I give him a bit of a pass. Matthews led the team in goals

2018 - Marner was great but also faced Bruins bottom pairing D most of the series (this was confirmed by Stephen Burtch)

2019 - i have no idea what you watched here, Marner literally had one really good game (game 1), and one other game that was decent, and was garbage for the rest of the series

I agree with you on the other years.

2017 was a while back but I remember marner being good that year he created offense for his line and JVr and Bozak didn't finish much

2018 he also went against the Bergeron line in games 4-7 I believe and helped keep them off the scoreboard while he produced.

2019 he had a good seires. He had 4 in 7 while being part of the line that forced Cassidy to break apart the perfection line. We had that series if our 3rd line contributed or if we had a better PK. Marner and Jt were snake bit that series as well as they created quite a bit even in game 7 with them being the only line generating chances for the team

Marners past two playoffs have cost him. He hasn't been good enough but his first three were strong. It comes back to expectations and contract. If he had taken a 3 year 6-7M bridge tham his 8 pts in 12 games is perhaps justifiable. But he came out and wanted to be paid as the best winger in hockey at the time of his signing. His performance gets judged then with Rantanen, Kucherov, Kane, Marchand, Pasta who all dominate vs harder match up the past 2 years

 

[Fogelhund]

Over the past 18 games

Marner 0g, 10a
Matthews 8g, 9a

Matthews was far from bad against Columbus like Marner was and Marner basically disappeared after game 3 against Boston while Matthews was pressing forward and playing the best hockey of his career to that point. Ridiculous take

Of those 10a for Marner, only 3 were 5v5.

 

[m1ker]

Phillip Danault absolutely dominated them. Phillip Danault

 

[koyvoo]

No one should ever again put these two princess pretenders in the same breath with guys like Gilmour and Clark, who although not getting it done, showed up to go to war every night.

 

[Mentat]

When the other team can focus on AM b/c they know MM is 100% looking to pass and has no shot whatsoever.........

To me, that´s the biggest issue of our top line. Until we surround AM with some scoring threat wingers, we will continue to have PO woes.
Auston needs to do more, granted, but i don´t lay all the blame at his feet.