GDT: carchi

[NotOpie]

Would rather continue building through draft and trying to get that front-line scorer in the offseason when the rent ain't so damn high. We don't need to be trading off current assets for short-term help in what is basically year 3 of a rebuild. It'll be tough to see these kids miss the playoffs, but when you look at the big picture, there is years of long-term competitiveness here. Need to remain patient. JMO of course.

Robo, there's patience and then there's patience.

The ability to be patient, gathering assets in several down years, is something we have to do. But incrementally adding waiver wire pick ups isn't going to get us where we want to be. Getting a solid free agent scorer to sign here in the off season hasn't happened since Alex Semin and he came with his particular set of baggage. We are not going to be picking in the top 10 of this draft, more likely somewhere between 14 and 21. That's not going to get a top tier scoring prospect (more because of the quality of this draft than anything else). Sure, guys will rise up and be surprises. We've got guys in our system that will also help in the coming years. But this team, on it's current "rebuild" trajectory won't be playoff competitive until next year at the very earliest (assuming similar types of low dollar acquisition and a straight-line development path for the current prospects) and likely not until the year after that.

While I agree that the players deserve a better team around them, this fan base deserves it even more. Moreover, it is near critical that this team make the playoffs this season. We've all seen the empty seats. We all know the financial condition of the franchise (Don Waddell's protestations notwithstanding). This team has to win now to keep "southern hockey" at home in Carolina. While I'm not GM nor am I a "team construction" expert, I do watch this team nearly every, single game. The addition of another scoring threat that plays a 200 foot game (a la the Bill Peters system) would do absolute wonders. The one goal losses would be lessened. The lost leads would be lessened. Just having another serious scoring threat would force teams to change their defensive scheme. Heck, it is beginning to happen now with the success of Teuvo and Sea Bass.

I'm not saying it would be a miracle, but a Landeskog, a Duchene, or some similar player would fill in one of the key missing pieces on this squad. It would also show the guys in the room who are putting their hearts and souls into this season, that the front office was aligned with them. The value of that cannot be overstated.

 

[GoldiFox]

About Hanifin....Victor Hedman looked subpar his first few years before he figured it out. Hanifin will be fine.

I think Ty Rattie looks pretty darn good. Some Blues fans were criticizing his skating, but I'm not seeing it.

And our most tradeable commodity right now is Faulk. You want improvement upfront, be prepared to part with him. We'd be trading from our position of strength, and I doubt RF would trade Pesce, Slavin or Hanifin. And noone wants Fleury or McKeown.

I'd bank on signing Faulk to a big deal and trade Hanifin instead. About midway through last season I said that Slavin would be the Canes best D very soon. He is just so smart in all three zones with A+ awareness and shining confidence. I feel almost the polar opposite about Hanifin. His awareness and intelligence in the d-zone and in transition is frightening far to often.

Not saying to fire sale Hanifin, just that if the Canes can find a great young forward who is locked up long-term and fits the Peters mold then I'd be open to a trade. Faulk currently adds an element to this group which the rest lack and I think the chances of him re-signing are higher than most.

 

[NotOpie]

I'd bank on signing Faulk to a big deal and trade Hanifin instead. About midway through last season I said that Slavin would be the Canes best D very soon. He is just so smart in all three zones with A+ awareness and shining confidence. I feel almost the polar opposite about Hanifin. His awareness and intelligence in the d-zone and in transition is frightening far to often.

Not saying to fire sale Hanifin, just that if the Canes can find a great young forward who is locked up long-term and fits the Peters mold then I'd be open to a trade. Faulk currently adds an element to this group which the rest lack and I think the chances of him re-signing are higher than most.

I think if you talked to most Tampa Bay fans they would tell you that there are eerily similar traits between the two during their first couple of years in the league.

 

[GoldiFox]

I think if you talked to most Tampa Bay fans they would tell you that there are eerily similar traits between the two during their first couple of years in the league.

No doubt Hanifin could follow the same track as Hedman. But everyone brings up the Hedman example for recent highly picked D that should turn it around eventually. To my knowledge, Hedman seems more like the exception than the rule.

 

[Roboturner913]

Robo, there's patience and then there's patience.

The ability to be patient, gathering assets in several down years, is something we have to do. But incrementally adding waiver wire pick ups isn't going to get us where we want to be. Getting a solid free agent scorer to sign here in the off season hasn't happened since Alex Semin and he came with his particular set of baggage. We are not going to be picking in the top 10 of this draft, more likely somewhere between 14 and 21. That's not going to get a top tier scoring prospect (more because of the quality of this draft than anything else). Sure, guys will rise up and be surprises. We've got guys in our system that will also help in the coming years. But this team, on it's current "rebuild" trajectory won't be playoff competitive until next year at the very earliest (assuming similar types of low dollar acquisition and a straight-line development path for the current prospects) and likely not until the year after that.

While I agree that the players deserve a better team around them, this fan base deserves it even more. Moreover, it is near critical that this team make the playoffs this season. We've all seen the empty seats. We all know the financial condition of the franchise (Don Waddell's protestations notwithstanding). This team has to win now to keep "southern hockey" at home in Carolina. While I'm not GM nor am I a "team construction" expert, I do watch this team nearly every, single game. The addition of another scoring threat that plays a 200 foot game (a la the Bill Peters system) would do absolute wonders. The one goal losses would be lessened. The lost leads would be lessened. Just having another serious scoring threat would force teams to change their defensive scheme. Heck, it is beginning to happen now with the success of Teuvo and Sea Bass.

I'm not saying it would be a miracle, but a Landeskog, a Duchene, or some similar player would fill in one of the key missing pieces on this squad. It would also show the guys in the room who are putting their hearts and souls into this season, that the front office was aligned with them. The value of that cannot be overstated.

I'm all for a move, but it has to be the right one. Getting Duchene would be great, but not at the expense of one of our top 4 D-men. If we can put together a package of picks + prospects that does not include Roy or Gauthier, I'm down. Hell I might even be down to trade Hanifin, depending on how ready the org thinks one of Fleury/Carrick/McKeown is to step in and be a top-4 guy right away.

 

[NotOpie]

I'm all for a move, but it has to be the right one. Getting Duchene would be great, but not at the expense of one of our top 4 D-men. If we can put together a package of picks + prospects that does not include Roy or Gauthier, I'm down. Hell I might even be down to trade Hanifin, depending on how ready the org thinks one of Fleury/Carrick/McKeown is to step in and be a top-4 guy right away.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am too. I don't want to trade any of our top 4, but I'd be down with a pretty big package, more for Landeskog than Duchene though. I'm okay with Rask (as long as he works on his FO in the off season) and Staal as our top 2 center options. We just need a true 3rd line C. There are some interesting options that will be available in free agency -- Hanzal, Bonino, Berglund, or even the rejuvenated Sam Gagner (although he might be a product of Columbus and their fairy tale season). Or you just plug Ryan back in there for now and keep shopping. Who knows who might come available and adding some secondary scoring would be a nice fall back position. I wonder if Calgary would listen to offers for Mikael Backlund?

EDIT: Guess I wasn't clear....by package I mean picks and prospects...for Landeskog, maybe something like 2017 1st, one of Fleury or Bean, and another pick for Landeskog and a 4th rounder....something of that ilk.

The scoring we'd get from Landeskog would really, really help. Failing that then I'd consider back-filling at 3C but might wait until the off season.

 

[geehaad]

So, Opie, I agree that it's critical that the Canes make the playoffs, but not this year, necessarily. And if landing Landeskog means losing futures and someone like Fleury, I'm down with that. I'm just not sure that gets the deal done (depends on Sakic's strategy of a quick or long rebuild).

I realize that our wunderkinder in the CHL aren't going to get us into the playoffs next year, but I think at least one of them is winning a roster spot straight out of camp, if not two. I think that the expansion draft is going to dilute the talent of other NHL teams, not the Hurricanes. Furthermore, the young D is going to be that much stronger in their place on the team, as will Aho and TT.

I see Francis taking advantage of one or two teams who are in a pickle - either with the expansion draft or salary cap (or both). They are improvements that pull the Canes from a few points out at #10 to a few points up at #7. And *then* you trade futures for someone like Landeskog...next year, when it starts to settle in where the weak links are.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

So, Opie, I agree that it's critical that the Canes make the playoffs, but not this year, necessarily. And if landing Landeskog means losing a first rounder and someone like Fleury, I'm down with that. I'm just not sure that gets the deal done (depends on Sakic's strategy of a quick or long rebuild).

I realize that our wunderkinder in the CHL aren't going to get us into the playoffs next year, but I think at least one of them is winning a roster spot straight out of camp, if not two. I think that the expansion draft is going to dilute the talent of other NHL teams, not the Hurricanes. Furthermore, the young D is going to be that much stronger in their place on the team, as will Aho and TT.

I see Francis taking advantage of one or two teams who are in a pickle - either with the expansion draft or salary cap (or both). They are improvements that pull the Canes from a few points out at #10 to a few points up at #7. And *then* you trade futures for someone like Landeskog...next year, when it starts to settle in where the weak links are.

Yep. RF has shown that he's a pretty mean poker player. Mostly, he's patient.

This team is clearly on the upswing. I don't think playoffs are critical this year, so long as we're in the hunt right to the end, which I think we will be. Don't sell too soon. (Unless you can get a great deal, in which case, do it.)

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I'm with geehaad and Hank. All this trade talk seems preemptive to me, this team doesn't need a trade right now unless it's a steal. Next year is the year we can reasonably expect playoff contention, we are going to be expansion draft buyers in the same way we've been "Chicago" buyers the last two years, and then on top of that the expansion draft is going to hit practically everyone but us. Gauthier could be a 25 goal scorer next year or not see NHL ice. Fleury could be a top 4 defenseman or flame out in Charlotte. Teravainen could be an All-Star or a 30-pt player. Aho could be an All-Star, or, well, I love him, I think he'll be an All-Star. Piggybacking on geehaad, this team is so young that identifying the weak links is darn near impossible, and there's no reason to make a reactionary move to try to make an unlikely playoff push this year, when next year we can much better assess what this team needs.

This team is so young and up in the air right now that it's hard to tell whether our forward group is full of future stars, or if Aho and Skinner are the only two worth keeping. While, again, if an absolute steal of an offer comes Francis's way he needs to take it, I'd rather wait a minute and let the chips fall where they may in exchange for gaining a better understanding of what the hell this team even is.




(I'm ditching the capital-less writing style for a bit, though I reserve the right to slip back into it if I need my fix of being a moron on the internet)

 

[Navin R Slavin]

(I'm ditching the capital-less writing style for a bit, though I reserve the right to slip back into it if I need my fix of being a moron on the internet)

liek ur not still a moron on the internet

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

liek ur not still a moron on the internet

shut your mouth

i hate you

 

[Navin R Slavin]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[GoldiFox]

My group of STH that have been around since Greensboro have dwindled over the past three seasons from 24 down to 6 this year. Four of those 6 had reservations about renewing but ended up doing so. Games have been better this year but without a Playoff showing or something to get excited about I doubt they will renew next year. I'm on the fence, especially if everyone else decides to cancel.

Not saying my situation is representative of the norm, but at least from what I am experiencing the good will is pretty much on empty rather than building.

 

[Hulkacaniac]

Way I see it we should do a 3 way trade. Trade bean or fleury to a team with too many draft eligible dmen and then flip immediately the dman for a forward. Question is how much value being draft exempt has.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

My parents will most likely cancel if they miss the playoffs.

They haven't bottomed out yet, which is terrifying.

 

[NotOpie]

So, Opie, I agree that it's critical that the Canes make the playoffs, but not this year, necessarily. And if landing Landeskog means losing futures and someone like Fleury, I'm down with that. I'm just not sure that gets the deal done (depends on Sakic's strategy of a quick or long rebuild).

I realize that our wunderkinder in the CHL aren't going to get us into the playoffs next year, but I think at least one of them is winning a roster spot straight out of camp, if not two. I think that the expansion draft is going to dilute the talent of other NHL teams, not the Hurricanes. Furthermore, the young D is going to be that much stronger in their place on the team, as will Aho and TT.

I see Francis taking advantage of one or two teams who are in a pickle - either with the expansion draft or salary cap (or both). They are improvements that pull the Canes from a few points out at #10 to a few points up at #7. And *then* you trade futures for someone like Landeskog...next year, when it starts to settle in where the weak links are.

Yup, basically agree. I would be down with prospects and picks for Landeskog (I'm less interested in Duchene because of the term of his contract) or somebody similar. I don't want to trade any of the youth that has proven itself and is proving itself on this NHL roster. I'd tinker around the edges and I might trade for a secondary scorer to center the 3rd line...something like that.

I'd be surprised if any of the CHL wuderkinds make the NHL roster. I think the team's MO is to try and get these guys games in the AHL and develop them in that manner. Aho, like Skinner is a rarity. Lack of traditional development, in my opinion, is what led to a lot of Lindy's struggles. I even believe that Hanifin could have thrived with more games either in college or in the AHL.

While I think Roy, Gauthier, and Kuokkanen are all very talented, they haven't seen anything like NHL competition. I'd put more money on Wallmark, Zykov, Poturalski, Di Giuseppe, and Tolchinsky making a push than the the CHLers.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

My parents will most likely cancel if they miss the playoffs.

They haven't bottomed out yet, which is terrifying.

Don't even know what this means. Season ticket sales were up in the offseason.

Plenty of pissed off old-timers, but some new blood to replace them. If they can hold steady, they should.

 

[geehaad]

It's just my opinion, yes, but they've bottomed out already. Going 12-4-1 (or whatever) at home has got things on the upswing, though yes, it's entirely possible a couple injuries causes even that bit of hope to extinguish. Being headed in the right direction both in terms of seeing talented prospects and a competitive team on the ice is the bridge to making the playoffs that will keep the solid majority on board who haven't jumped ship yet. Really, if you stayed *this* long, and abandon the team after these results, it doesn't speak highly of your ability to process what is happening.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Really, if you stayed *this* long, and abandon the team after these results, it doesn't speak highly of your ability to process what is happening.

"But Eric Staaaaaaaaaaaal!"

 

[geehaad]

So glad I don't read Facebook comments.

 

[GoldiFox]

It's just my opinion, yes, but they've bottomed out already. Going 12-4-1 (or whatever) at home has got things on the upswing, though yes, it's entirely possible a couple injuries causes even that bit of hope to extinguish. Being headed in the right direction both in terms of seeing talented prospects and a competitive team on the ice is the bridge to making the playoffs that will keep the solid majority on board who haven't jumped ship yet. Really, if you stayed *this* long, and abandon the team after these results, it doesn't speak highly of your ability to process what is happening.

It's not exactly a hot taek... But the Canes are never going to find sustained success spending a full $7 million less than the next lowest team and $15 million below where all the contenders are spending. That's on the owner and it's not likely to change.

 

[geehaad]

I wholly disagree, and I think that show a lack of understanding of how Karmanos has behaved with team money in the past. When there's hope in the team, and/or when he's asked by his GM to spend, he spends. We know Francis is conservative, and wouldn't cry wolf (for lack of a better phrase) on this year's roster. He's waiting until it makes sense to ask for increased expenditures, and for reasons mentioned above, now isn't the time.

 

[GoldiFox]

Don't even know what this means. Season ticket sales were up in the offseason.

Plenty of pissed off old-timers, but some new blood to replace them. If they can hold steady, they should.

Would you say there is some correlation between sales force and sales? Waddell doubled the sales team, I'd hope the number of STM would increase. Despite that... Average attendance is down significantly again for the 3rd year in a row (15K+ --> 12.5k --> 12.2k --> now 11.5k).

I've been at every home game and the numbers seem to be improving as they have been winning. But the numbers are what they are.

 

[GoldiFox]

I wholly disagree, and I think that show a lack of understanding of how Karmanos has behaved with team money in the past. When there's hope in the team, and/or when he's asked by his GM to spend, he spends. We know Francis is conservative, and wouldn't cry wolf (for lack of a better phrase) on this year's roster. He's waiting until it makes sense to ask for increased expenditures, and for reasons mentioned above, now isn't the time.

If you make the assumption that Karmanos will behave the same way now or in the future with his money as he has in the past then that is fine. I'm not sure that is a given.

 

[geehaad]

If you make the assumption that Karmanos will behave the same way now or in the future with his money as he has in the past then that is fine. I'm not sure that is a given.

Of course it's not, but your statement is miles away from that. To say that his spending is not likely to change from being $7M under the entire rest of the league goes well past hot take territory. That's just cold, man.