Proposal: CAR-PIT

[spockBokk]

I'm really surprised I'm reading any Canes fans that are okay with moving Morrow for Karlsson. I don't think it's about Morrow having a bad year, I'm just surprised that a guy who was completely untouchable for Guentzel could be available for Karlsson. I just have a tough time believing the Canes would do that.

IMO, there are just too many factors at play against his value here:

1. Full NMC, meaning he can pick his location.
2. High AAV which requires the Penguins to retain at least $3 million to get his deal to be easier to swallow.
3. Very niche skillset that some teams would completely steer clear of if they don't specifically need his talent.

I think Kessel is the same exact situation, he always brought back less than what fans of his team were thinking he'd bring back. Leafs fans thought that Kessel would bring back one of Maatta, Pouliot or Murray, but he only got Kapanen. Penguins fans thought that Kessel would bring back an unprotected Coyotes 1st, but he only got POJ.

Maybe I'm wrong and overrating Morrow, but I'd be shocked if the Canes did him for Karlsson.

Recency bias.

Morrow was in completely over his head when thrown into the fire out of necessity against the Panthers. He was overmatched and too wound up/worried about making mistakes to be effective, and being worried about making mistakes, led to some pretty big mistakes that ended up being goals.

That, and some Canes’ fans have placed Messiah-level expectations on Nikishin, so they were incensed Morrow got into games over him in gm1 of the series. FWIW, Nikishin is more ready for playoff hockey than Morrow, but both rookies were over their heads. They should both be fine come next October for full-time NHL roles imo.

Now, I don’t see anyway Morrow would be the centerpiece of a Karlsson to CAR trade. Personally, I think the Canes run with the 6D they have under contract next season (Slavin, Chatfield, Nikishin, Walker, Gostisbehere and Morrow) and they focus on bring in top 6 help.

I could potentially see interest in Karlsson, I’d think they’d be looking to get him on the cheap and not offering any premium pieces. Again, I think the high end pieces they have should be ammo for forward upgrades.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Recency bias.

Morrow was in completely over his head when thrown into the fire out of necessity against the Panthers. He was overmatched and too wound up/worried about making mistakes to be effective, and being worried about making mistakes, led to some pretty big mistakes that ended up being goals.

That, and some Canes’ fans have placed Messiah-level expectations on Nikishin, so they were incensed Morrow got into games over him in gm1 of the series. FWIW, Nikishin is more ready for playoff hockey than Morrow, but both rookies were over their heads. They should both be fine come next October for full-time NHL roles imo.

Now, I don’t see anyway Morrow would be the centerpiece of a Karlsson to CAR trade. Personally, I think the Canes run with the 6D they have under contract next season (Slavin, Chatfield, Nikishin, Walker, Gostisbehere and Morrow) and they focus on bring in top 6 help.

I could potentially see interest in Karlsson, I’d think they’d be looking to get him on the cheap and not offering any premium pieces. Again, I think the high end pieces they have should be ammo for forward upgrades.

Yeah IMO if Karlsson to Carolina happens, I think it would be more like Gostisbehere, a prospect and a 2nd for Karlsson with retention. I just can't see a way that Morrow gets moved there.

I still think that Carolina should be willing to do that, though. They desperately need an offensive driver from their blueline and upgrading from Gostisbehere to Karlsson should have a dramatic impact at 5v5. Even if it's just sliding Karlsson into Gostisbehere's old spot, I think that's a move that is worth it.

 

[dgibb10]

The canes need to add an NHL 2C and NHL 3C

They have a 1C, then 2 4Cs in Staal and Kotka (maybe a 3rd line winger).

I think they use Roslovic as a C as well but he's a good top 9 winger who can play C for stretches.

They should trade for a 2C and then add a EK65 type asset at retained deal

Staal is among the best 3Cs in the league

 

[hamzarocks]

Staal is among the best 3Cs in the league

Too offensively inept to be a 3C.

He's a great 4C but he shouldn't be relied as much if the Canes are looking to win.

12-13 mins a game with PK is fair for him. He's in his mid 30s too now and has a lot of milage on him

 

[dgibb10]

Too offensively inept to be a 3C.

He's a great 4C but he shouldn't be relied as much if the Canes are looking to win.

12-13 mins a game with PK is fair for him. He's in his mid 30s too now and has a lot of milage on him

He provided 36 points. Which is fine for a 3C.

And when you couple it with him being among the best shutdown Cs in the league, it is elite for that role

 

[DesertPenguin]

Yeah calling Staal a 4C offends me personally. You can tell me CAR needs a 2C and I'll agree, but claiming there's no 3C on the roster? No

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Haha, carpet.

 

[Jared Grayden]

Dubas doesn't do buyouts. I wanted Morrow in the Jake trade but now with Letang back for maybe 1 or 2 more years and Brunicke, Timmins, St Ivany who really came on when healthy the end of last year and One of the younger RD's drafted last year, Pens need to get a RW in the deal or the draft. I would rather do the Karlsson and Rust to Buffalo for Byram, Helenius and Buffalo's number 1.

There's zero chance Karlsson is waiving for Buffalo.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Yeah calling Staal a 4C offends me personally. You can tell me CAR needs a 2C and I'll agree, but claiming there's no 3C on the roster? No

Other than Aho it's all 3C's!

 

[chethejet]

My proposal was just that but Buffalo is not the worst place to go to. that have talent and need a Rd and veteran RW both RH shots to bring experience and balanced scoring to them. never under estimate the need for a franchise to want to win. I know Buffalo fans don't think that is a deal but they are far better with the Pens duo. Pens get the LD and promising winger/center and of course a top 10 pick. Pens can sign Byram to a nice deal with cap space up the kazoo.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Too offensively inept to be a 3C.

He's a great 4C but he shouldn't be relied as much if the Canes are looking to win.

12-13 mins a game with PK is fair for him. He's in his mid 30s too now and has a lot of milage on him

He faces the toughest competition in a defensive role with no PP time, yet his 5v5 points were 28. Compare that to ROR (28), Aho (30), Beniers (27), Coyle (24), Roy (24), Strome(31), Hischier (32), Larkin (33), Barkov (33), etc.. and his offense doesn't seem that "inept" for a 3C.

When looking at P/60, Staal ranks 56 in the NHL among centers > 800 minutes and many of the guys ahead of him aren't really centers (Necas, Jarvis, Guentzel, etc..).

He's absolutely fine as a 3C. Problem is the Canes have no 2C.

 

[DaveG]

I don't hate the idea of Morrow for Karlsson as the main pieces, but the Pens have way bigger needs on the left side than the right. Ironic since that should be easier to fill than RHD. Even when sending out Karlsson you have Letang - Timmins - St Ivany with Brunicke expected to push i to the lineup this season or next. There's organizational depth behind those as well.

Big brain idea: three way trade with CAR getting Karlsson, Buffalo getting Morrow + and PIT getting Byram? Secondary pieces added to balance.

oddly the Canes are probably deeper in quality on the left side but none of those (outside Seeley maybe?) are as close to the NHL as Morrow. The two Swedes in particular are solid prospects (Forsmark and Fransen) but I'm not sure Dubas would be interested in guys for 2-3 years out.

 

[Nakawick]

Carolina gets:

EK65 @ 50% retained

Pens get:

Ghostibere
Prospect

What prospect makes this work? Can we get Badinka? If not I think I’d like a 2nd/3rd pick back instead.

Bruh? You are a Pens fan no?

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Morrow + Kotkaniemi for EK (no retention)

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Carolina gets:

EK65 @ 50% retained

Pens get:

Ghostibere
Prospect

What prospect makes this work? Can we get Badinka? If not I think I’d like a 2nd/3rd pick back instead.

Mate, no.

 

[chethejet]

Probably any deals will not be what I expect. Dubas will make deals here but with who and for what will happen as if out of the blue. Then we hear the discussions were weeks before the closing of the deal. But we can always speculate for entertainment.

 

[Peterpuck7810]

I doubt Carolina would have any intrest in EK. Hes over the hill at this point.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If the Pens can't get value for Karlsson this summer their best bet is either waiting until the deadline or next summer when the commitment for the acquiring team is lower.

He'll also have the opportunity to boost his value with a new coach in Pittsburgh, and potentially at the Olympics.

 

[DesertPenguin]

oddly the Canes are probably deeper in quality on the left side but none of those (outside Seeley maybe?) are as close to the NHL as Morrow. The two Swedes in particular are solid prospects (Forsmark and Fransen) but I'm not sure Dubas would be interested in guys for 2-3 years out.

Yeah once you look 2-3 years out we have another wave coming. Pienniemi was top line LD for Finland in the last WJC, and the org is high on Finn Harding. Those two plus Brunicke and Pickering are all a decent bet to make the show, but not in time to play major roles before Crosby retires. We want guys playing NHL minutes already but blocked by vets, or guys knocking the door down in the A.