Captaincy Removed

[ilovetheflyers8]

I was wondering what if any captains of teams had their captaincy taken away and given to another player? What were the circumstances under which this happened?

 

[Noldo]

Brendan Morrow replaced Mike Modano as captain of Dallas Stars on September 29, 2006 although Modano stayed with Stars.

Vincent Lecavalier was named captain of Tampa Bay Lightning on March 1, 2000 but he was stripped for his captaincy before 2001/02 season, because his was clashing with coach Tortorella and missed beginning of the season due contract negotiations. Lecavalier was named captain again for 2008/09 season.

 

[thefifthsedin*]

I was wondering what if any captains of teams had their captaincy taken away and given to another player? What were the circumstances under which this happened?

are you kidding?

when vancouver, for some unknown delusional reason, took in messier the team [mostly coach keenan] pissed on trevor linden at the same time and took the captaincy away from him and eventually ran him out of the city ...

 

[Pear Juice]

Ted Lindsay was stripped from his captaincy of the Red Wings as a punishment for organizing the beginnings of the NHLPA. This was however just the beginning, as he was later traded to the bottom-feeding Black Hawks, with Jack Adams planting rumors and false contracts in the press, trying to detract from what Lindsay was doing with the player union. He paid a high price, but he laid one of the building blocks for much of the NHL structure we see today.

Doug Harvey suffered a similar treatment in Montreal, as he was also involved in the union forming. Now I'm not entirely certain but I believe Harvey served as a captain aswell at the time of his trade in 60-61.

Now both of these players did not stay with their teams very long (or at all) after the incidents, but if there ever were any leading stars who were so blatantly mistreated by their clubs, I'd like to hear about them.

 

[popo]

From the Oilers:
Lee Fogolin handed over the Captaincy to Gretzky, by that point it was clear Gretzky was the true leader of the squad.
Shayne Corson had the captaincy stripped after feuding with the coach, and mabye being a bad influence on rookie Jason Arnott.

 

[arrbez]

From the Oilers:
Lee Fogolin handed over the Captaincy to Gretzky, by that point it was clear Gretzky was the true leader of the squad.
Shayne Corson had the captaincy stripped after feuding with the coach, and mabye being a bad influence on rookie Jason Arnott.

Just to tie your two points together, I believe Corson handed the captaincy over to Gretzky in St. Louis as well.

I don't recall how Corson got it from Hull though? Brett was the captain for a few years there, did he just give it up?

 

[Pear Juice]

I don't recall how Corson got it from Hull though? Brett was the captain for a few years there, did he just give it up?

According to this article from the Seattle Times in 1995:http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19951123&slug=2154101 Brett Hull fell "out of favor" of Mike Keenan. This is not surprising really, Brett Hull and Mike Keenan does not sound like a match made in heaven... Well, suffice to say he's not the first to have come on ill terms with Iron Mike. I guess Corson was a logical choice given Keenans tendency to like rough hard-working players.

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

are you kidding?

when vancouver, for some unknown delusional reason, took in messier the team [mostly coach keenan] pissed on trevor linden at the same time and took the captaincy away from him and eventually ran him out of the city ...

Trevor Linden offered Messier the captaincy before the start of the 97-98 Season and Messier accepted it. Mike Keenan became coach in the middle of November of that season so he had nothing to with the captaincy change.

When Messier returned to the Rangers in 2000, Brian Leetch also offered the captaincy to Messier which he accepted.

 

[Wetcoaster]

are you kidding?

when vancouver, for some unknown delusional reason, took in messier the team [mostly coach keenan] pissed on trevor linden at the same time and took the captaincy away from him and eventually ran him out of the city ...

"mostly Coach Keenan"???

Many try to pin it on Mike Keenan. That was done before Keenan came to Vancouver. It was done by the unethical sleazeball Pat Quinn - you know the guy banned for life from the NHL for "conduct prejudicial to the game" per Quinngate.

What was worse was Messier being given Number 11 that had been retired on the death of Wayne Maki. Even more astonishing was that Quinn had been a teammate of Maki when he was a Canuck.

Quinn was GM when Messier was signed and if you recall he initiated the PR fiasco of giving Wayne Maki's #11 to Messier. Number 11 was retired in honour of Wayne Maki. Pat Quinn lied when he said it was not and gave it to Messier.

As far as "unofficially retired" it depends upon who you listen to. As a matter of course I immediately reject anything Pat Quinn has to say given his past history of being a stranger to the truth.

Beverly Maki, through her lawyer George Majic, has written Canuck president Pat Quinn three times and forwarded documentation to his office, offering proof that No. 11 was in fact retired following the 1973-74 season. As well, there has been a number of telephone conversations between parties representing both sides. Not satisifed with the Canuck responses, Beverly Maki opted to go public this week.

"They just don't want to accept that the number was retired," said Beverly Maki, who lives in North Vancouver with daughter Stephanie, 26, and son Wayne Jr., 25. "We've offered to let Mark wear it for the three years he plays here and then we want them to retire the number again. All I've been asking for is some acknowledgement. If something could happen, it would be great."

In her most recent conversation with Quinn one week ago, Beverly Maki said she was told the Canucks "wouldn't do anything because the number was never retired."

As well, one-time Canuck captain Chris Oddleifson briefly wore No. 11 following his February 1974 trade to the Canucks from Boston. Maki died that spring and the next season, Oddleifson was issued No. 14.

"When I came over in the [Bob] Schmautz trade, I wore No. 11 for the remainder of the season but when I came to training camp in the fall, I was told the No. 11 was retired because of Wayne's death," Oddleifson said Thursday. "
.....

Among the documentation Majic sent Quinn was a Vancouver Sun article that appeared on May 18, 1974, six days following Maki's death, in which the Canucks reportedly "announced they will retire the late Wayne Maki's sweater from the National Hockey League . . . . the Canucks will make a presentation of the sweater to the Maki family."

Majic's correspondence also included a picture from the B.C. Sports Hall of Fame showing a display of Maki's sweater with the inscription: "This jersey was worn by Wayne Maki, #11, during the season of 1972-73. The number is now retired."

Maki jersey status unresolved; [Final Edition] Elliott Pap. The Vancouver Sun. Vancouver, B.C.: Oct 17, 1997. pg. C.1

And this:

THERE IS MUCH time for matters to sort themselves out, but right now the Vancouver Canucks are looking like a very expensive mess.

Five weeks ago, the signing of free agent Mark Messier seemed to make the Canucks automatic Stanley Cup contenders, possibly this country's most talented club and certainly its highest paid.

By far.

Now, with camp set to open for the west coasters in Whistler, B.C., in 12 days, the Canucks have been hammered by the Pavel Bure dispute and a number of other major and minor problems that are threatening to submarine owner John McCaw's best-laid plans for a dream season:
..................
The splash of the Messier signing was muffled somewhat by the callous manner in which the club gave No. 11 to the former Ranger captain, a jersey number that had been unofficially retired by the club for almost a quarter-century in honor of former Canuck Wayne Maki.

Maki died of cancer in 1974, and his family wasn't asked for permission to put his number back in circulation.

"They said they tried to get a hold of us, but obviously they didn't try very hard to get our blessing, which they don't have,'' said Maki's son, Wayne Jr.

Canucks look rich and confused; [Final Edition]
By Damien Cox Toronto Star. Toronto Star. Toronto, Ont.: Aug 28, 1997. pg. D.9

The Maki family was never consulted before Messier was given Number 11 despite Messier's and Quinn's lies to the contrary.

The Big Irishman is scum of the worst order and John Zeigler should not have commuted his lifetime ban from the NHL to a supension and fine for Quinngate.

 

[pitseleh]

Keith Tkachuk was stripped of the captaincy of the Jets in the mid-nineties and it was given to Kris King. I know he had some kind of contract dispute with the team but I don't know if that was the cause of the captaincy change.

 

[thefifthsedin*]

Trevor Linden offered Messier the captaincy before the start of the 97-98 Season and Messier accepted it. Mike Keenan became coach in the middle of November of that season so he had nothing to with the captaincy change.

When Messier returned to the Rangers in 2000, Brian Leetch also offered the captaincy to Messier which he accepted.

he may not have anything to do with the change of captaincy but it's well known that keenan didn't like linden and more or less [in this case more] ran him out of the city. it's not hard to guess that messier was a factor in the hireing of keenan

and all these 'offerings' of captaincies seems a little strange to me. it's like 'oh, jesus himself is comming to town, i have to offer him some bread and wine, and oh, my captaincy too ... '

it's ridiculous

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Patrik Elias was stripped of his captaincy when Brent Sutter became the coach of NJ. We were never really given a good explanation. Sutter's official line was that he wanted to make players earn the captaincy in camp. Elias had been the captain for only a year and seemed at times to struggle with the pressure, so that was part of it. Either way, it was handled in a very Bush League fashion - Elias found out that he was stripped of the captaincy through the media, not from his new coach - and it fueled rumors that Sutter didn't like Europeans very much. Eventually the captaincy was given to Langenbrunner without much explanation.

It worked out in the end - Langenbrunner has settled into becoming a nice captain - but it certainly was not handled well.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

The removal of Lindros' captaincy (Flyers) is well-documented and elevated Eric Desjardins to the position.

Further back, when Bobby Clarke played and because he was, simultaneously, assistant coach for the 1979-80 season, his "C" was removed per NHL provisions and thus Mel Bridgman received the title. Prior to the opening game of the 1981-82 season, head coach Pat Quinn removed Bridgman's "C" because he felt that Bridgman was too focused on (and unhappy about) a recently negotiated contract so he gave the captaincy to Bill Barber. When Quinn was replaced as head coach by Bob McCammon, Barber eventually suffered a serious knee injury and his captaincy was returned to Clarke on a temporary then permanent basis by McCammon (Clarke stopped being a player-coach with Quinn's dismissal so he was eligible to regain the "C").

Lastly, during preseason 1991, Ron Sutter reported a day late to camp and his "C" was removed for Rick Tocchet. The Flyers and Blues were rumored to be making a trade and during the same preseason the Sutter-for-Rod Brind'Amour-trade (Dan Quinn to Philly and Murray Baron to the Blues, too) was made.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

The removal of Lindros' captaincy (Flyers) is well-documented and elevated Eric Desjardins to the position.

wasn't desjardins' C also eventually stripped? i think primeau got it?

and, on the topic of the flyers, i think hatcher gave up his C to forsberg.


somewhat related, but i recall kelly kisio was exposed in the expansion draft so the rangers could give his C and his #11 to new acquisition mark messier.

also, mike keane was thrown into the patrick roy trade so pierre turgeon could be captain.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

wasn't desjardins' C also eventually stripped? i think primeau got it?

and, on the topic of the flyers, i think hatcher gave up his C to forsberg.


somewhat related, but i recall kelly kisio was exposed in the expansion draft so the rangers could give his C and his #11 to new acquisition mark messier.

also, mike keane was thrown into the patrick roy trade so pierre turgeon could be captain.

Desjardins relinquished his captaincy willingly. Then Primeau received it until the concussion ended his career and eventually Hatcher took the role.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

According to this article from the Seattle Times in 1995:http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19951123&slug=2154101 Brett Hull fell "out of favor" of Mike Keenan. This is not surprising really, Brett Hull and Mike Keenan does not sound like a match made in heaven... Well, suffice to say he's not the first to have come on ill terms with Iron Mike. I guess Corson was a logical choice given Keenans tendency to like rough hard-working players.

For just that reason I was very puzzled that Martin Gelinas was given the boot during the Keenan regime in Vancouver. Outside of being an infrequent fighter, he seemed tailor-made for Iron Mike.

Anyway, you kind of knew Linden was gone the moment Messier was signed... Keenan or no Keenan.

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

he may not have anything to do with the change of captaincy but it's well known that keenan didn't like linden and more or less [in this case more] ran him out of the city. it's not hard to guess that messier was a factor in the hireing of keenan

and all these 'offerings' of captaincies seems a little strange to me. it's like 'oh, jesus himself is comming to town, i have to offer him some bread and wine, and oh, my captaincy too ... '

it's ridiculous

At the press conference when Messier was signed by Vancouver, Messier was asked about the captaincy, he said, "Everybody knows Trevor Linden is the captain of Vancouver and that he's done a tremendous job being captain. Their is no reason to change that."

If you are really interested in what happened their is an entire chapter in the Messier biography "Messier" , by Jeff Z. Klein, where he has direct quotes from an interview Gary Mason of the Vancouver Sun did with Trevor Linden, it covers Lindens thought process and why he did it.

 

[thefifthsedin*]

At the press conference when Messier was signed by Vancouver, Messier was asked about the captaincy, he said, "Everybody knows Trevor Linden is the captain of Vancouver and that he's done a tremendous job being captain. Their is no reason to change that."

that's just something you say, out of 'disguised respect'. what you say and what you [later] do isn't always the same thing, or a god given combo, as we all know ...

if he would have said 'oh, i'm here to be captain, isn't it obvious that i have this monumental messiah complex?', the fans and the city would have despised him even more already from the start

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

that's just something you say, out of 'disguised respect'. what you say and what you [later] do isn't always the same thing, or a god given combo, as we all know ...

if he would have said 'oh, i'm here to be captain, isn't it obvious that i have this monumental messiah complex?', the fans and the city would have despised him even more already from the start

Messier said Linden was captain, yet Linden still asked teammates and Messier himself what he should do with the captaincy and they all told him to do what he thought was right, Linden stands up in front of the whole dressing room and says to his teammates that he wanted to turn the captaincy over to Messier. The decision was all Linden's.

 

[Oilers1*]

that's just something you say, out of 'disguised respect'. what you say and what you [later] do isn't always the same thing, or a god given combo, as we all know ...

if he would have said 'oh, i'm here to be captain, isn't it obvious that i have this monumental messiah complex?', the fans and the city would have despised him even more already from the start

GET OVER IT!

 

[popo]

wasn't desjardins' C also eventually stripped? i think primeau got it?

and, on the topic of the flyers, i think hatcher gave up his C to forsberg.


somewhat related, but i recall kelly kisio was exposed in the expansion draft so the rangers could give his C and his #11 to new acquisition mark messier.

also, mike keane was thrown into the patrick roy trade so pierre turgeon could be captain.

I think that the expansion draft happened a few months prior to the Messier trade. So I don't think that was a motive for giving up Kisio.
Good example of a captain losing his captaincy though.

On that note, Kelly Buchberger was captain of the Oilers when he was selected by Atlanta in the expansion draft. Cleared the way for Doug Weight to take the C.

 

[thefifthsedin*]

Messier said Linden was captain, yet Linden still asked teammates and Messier himself what he should do with the captaincy and they all told him to do what he thought was right, Linden stands up in front of the whole dressing room and says to his teammates that he wanted to turn the captaincy over to Messier. The decision was all Linden's.

that's the official tale

it's obvious that he was pressured to do what he did, by the team, pat quinn, and perhaps indirectly even by messier

and no, hardcore vancouver fans will never get over it ... there's no reason to

 

[Badger Bob]

Craig Conroy was relieved of the captaincy in favor or Jarome Iginla for the Flames.

 

[aegwillnotwinthecup*]

The four horsemen of the apocalypse gangbanged each other and conceived a child they named Rob Blake. He stripped himself of the Kings' captaincy because his father, Satan, told him to hold out for more money. Damien, er, Rob continues to plague the Kings to this very day.

 

[Oilers1*]

that's the official tale

it's obvious that he was pressured to do what he did, by the team, pat quinn, and perhaps indirectly even by messier

and no, hardcore vancouver fans will never get over it ... there's no reason to

Look, I understand Linden is a cult-hero in Vancouver. I get that he has a bond with the city and fans that transcends his on-ice accomplishments. I do.

But, let's really look at this; you have a career second/third-line player who gave up the Captaincy to a six-time Stanley Cup winner, two-time Stanley Cup Captain, 600+ goal-scorer, greatest leader in hockey history, and basically living legend in skates.

The fact that Vancouver didn't instantly win five Stanley Cups after obtaining Messier has more to do with Bure's holdout, Mogilny's disinterested play, Kirk MacLean's fall from grace, Vancouver's roster being generally overrated post-Stanley Cup run (a miracle run no one expected, btw) and Pat Quinn's terrible General Managing. Expecting an aging Messier to step into that mess and turn it around was unrealsitic.

And besides, if it was (using your logic) the Mess-Keenan faction that 'drove' Linden out of town then they also, ultimately, got Vancouver Bertuzzi AND, indirectly, the Sedins (McCabe having been dealt for Chicago's pick, used to secure the Sedins). AND, hell, Bertuzzi ended up bringing back Luongo. A solid argument could be made that 'driving' Linden out of town was the best thing that ever happened to the Canucks franchise.

Throw in the fact that both Naslund and Jovanovski (the linchpins of a pretty solid Canuck team for several years) both credited Messier's influence on helping them turn around their flagging careers, and I really am blown away by the grudge that Vancouver continues to hold for Mark Messier. Its like Vancouver believes there should be an asteriks next to Messier's plaque in the hall-of-fame because of a few lousy seasons in Vancouver, or something.

Linden ain't Jesus, and Messier wasn't Judas like overreacting, irrational Vancouver fans continue to insist.

I mean, hell, Oilers fans loved Captain Kelly Buchberger during the 90s. But if we somehow traded for Steve Yzerman during that time, I'm sure no one would have had a problem with Yzerman taking the 'C' from him.