Prospect Info: Caps Top Prospects General Discussion Thread - 2024

[Misery74]

Based on what has been said on these boards, he has to stay in the WHL this coming year due to his age. My understanding is he is not eligible to go play in Hershey because he's too young. Yet younger players have played in the NHL, so maybe that's a way around it.

I'm sure he'd be in Hershey this year if he was allowed.

He can be given a 9 game tryout before going back to the WHL.

I asked this same question the other day. Might he get 9 games?

Seems unlikely based on the depth chart.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

With all our additions I see it hard to get a tryout spot in regular season games

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

“this is not a development league”……..

 

[usiel]

I wonder if he could go pro and player over seas unless they also have an agreement with those leagues

 

[Rayquaza64]

in theory cristall could get a waiver to play in the ahl early however i have no idea how easy/difficult it is to do so + i can imagine the kelowna rockets would have a lot of problems with losing cristall.

also with the way hershey is i doubt he’d really have a role outside of maybe the third line but idk

 

[HTFN]

I wonder if he could go pro and player over seas unless they also have an agreement with those leagues

I could be mistaken but I think it applies to anyone taken from the CHL, explains why Euro players can get time in Euro men's leagues

 

[DWGie26]

in theory cristall could get a waiver to play in the ahl early however i have no idea how easy/difficult it is to do so + i can imagine the kelowna rockets would have a lot of problems with losing cristall.

also with the way hershey is i doubt he’d really have a role outside of maybe the third line but idk

We debated the hell out of this a couple of months ago. He was born in 2005 so doesn’t meet the age requirement. The only exception is if the player has played 4 “full” years in CHL. Cristal has 3 full years and a partial season. I don’t know what the exception might be other than he can play in the NHL.

This is also why you will see Protas play another season in USHL and not WHL despite being drafted 3 overall. And Satan will play in the USHL as well for the same reason. At their size, they can go play with men in the AHL well before they would qualify if they went the CHL route.

CHL pisses me off. They need to mature their rules or they will continue to lose good players. I’m here for that.

 

[DWGie26]

when love/allen gets poached for a bigger job/the org moves on from them, perhaps

I think Love could be out as the Dee coach. he is is well regarded but I don’t think he was Carberry’s choice. I’d love to bring Orpik behind the bench. I think Scott Allen stays. Like him too. I could see Mueller out as well as he didn’t do much with the PP.

 

[Kazer]

We debated the hell out of this a couple of months ago. He was born in 2005 so doesn’t meet the age requirement. The only exception is if the player has played 4 “full” years in CHL. Cristal has 3 full years and a partial season. I don’t know what the exception might be other than he can play in the NHL.

This is also why you will see Protas play another season in USHL and not WHL despite being drafted 3 overall. And Satan will play in the USHL as well for the same reason. At their size, they can go play with men in the AHL well before they would qualify if they went the CHL route.

CHL pisses me off. They need to mature their rules or they will continue to lose good players. I’m here for that.

At least as I understand it, CHL/AHL rules only apply to players who were drafted out of the CHL (OHL/WHL/QMJHL). Since Ilya Protas was drafted out of the USHL, my understanding is that he is not impacted by those rules (even if he goes to play for Windsor next year, he was drafted out of the USHL).

Of course, Cristall (and Parascak and others) were drafted out of the CHL [WHL to be specific] so CHL rules apply.

 

[Rayquaza64]

At least as I understand it, CHL/AHL rules only apply to players who were drafted out of the CHL (OHL/WHL/QMJHL). Since Ilya Protas was drafted out of the USHL, my understanding is that he is not impacted by those rules (even if he goes to play for Windsor next year, he was drafted out of the USHL).

Of course, Cristall (and Parascak and others) were drafted out of the CHL [WHL to be specific] so CHL rules apply.

yeah, was about to say this. This kinda happened with suzdalev last year (started in hershey, couldn’t crack roster, went to whl) so protas could play for windsor with no drawbacks to his pro timeline (so could satan, but he wasn’t drafted)

 

[Kalopsia]

Leonard mic'd up at development camp, and he provides a hint at how the teams for the 3 on 3 tournament were chosen. We don't get any context to know who he's talking about, but at 2:35 he says to somebody "I love my 4th round pickup." That suggests to me that maybe the coaches pick 5 guys to be captains (I figure Leonard, Cristall, Chesley, Suzdalev, and Funk) and then they hold a draft to pick their teams. If you squint you can kind see each guy's "type" in the teams they assembled. Suzdalev has 4/5 Euros for his skaters and only one D. Chesley has 3/5 NCAA defensemen for his skaters. Funk has a whole team from the WHL and OHL plus one NCAA invitee tacked on at the end. Leonard had 3 NCAA guys and 1 from the USHL. Cristall's team is kind a grab bag but he did get the only WHL defensemen at the camp.

I dunno, super minor detail but it's something I've been wondering about for a while and I thought that was kinda interesting.

 

[DWGie26]

At least as I understand it, CHL/AHL rules only apply to players who were drafted out of the CHL (OHL/WHL/QMJHL). Since Ilya Protas was drafted out of the USHL, my understanding is that he is not impacted by those rules (even if he goes to play for Windsor next year, he was drafted out of the USHL).

Of course, Cristall (and Parascak and others) were drafted out of the CHL [WHL to be specific] so CHL rules apply.

I hope this is correct. Let them go play where they can best develop and don’t put shackles on them which is what the CHL does. For bigger guys like Lil Pro and Satan they will better develop in the AHL at an earlier age. no issue with Parascak going the WHL path. I am mostly frustrated with Cristal being held hostage after playing 3.5 years there and clearly ready for the next development step. Same thing happened to Wilson as a big guy so he got forced to NHL.

 

[DWGie26]

I thought this was interesting as we discuss CHL vs USHL.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1810353804199485618

 

[Silky mitts]

The goal Cole scored in the 3 on 3 tourney

https://x.com/i/web/status/1809580187572433340

One of Lane's goals at the Worlds

https://x.com/i/web/status/1658863100257263617

 

[Kazer]

I hope this is correct. Let them go play where they can best develop and don’t put shackles on them which is what the CHL does. For bigger guys like Lil Pro and Satan they will better develop in the AHL at an earlier age. no issue with Parascak going the WHL path. I am mostly frustrated with Cristal being held hostage after playing 3.5 years there and clearly ready for the next development step. Same thing happened to Wilson as a big guy so he got forced to NHL.

I'm frustrated too - Cristall had a great D+1 year that built on his pre draft season and is clearly ready for the next step. It's the same situation that some other top prospects were in last season (Matthew Savoie and Conor Geekie).

I am going to personally disagree on Wilson, however. His OHL season was not one to the level where I felt he should have 'skipped' a year like Cristall. Very different players, teams, and situations but:

Wilson went 23 goals + 35 assists (58 points) in 48 games in his D+1 year
Cristall went 40 goals + 71 assists (111 points) in 62 games in his D+1 year

I will always believe that Wilson would have been better suited going back to the OHL for another year as opposed to playing less than 8 minutes a night and scoring 3 goals over an 82 game season. It's a minor miracle he developed into a productive player (and a testament to his hard work).

I have no problem requiring the D+1 year to be played in the junior league as I fully understand the CHL's desire to have great players stay past being drafted, but the D+2 year is tough on players who are clearly ready for the next level. I wouldn't be surprised if we're in this situation with Parascak a year from now.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'm frustrated too - Cristall had a great D+1 year that built on his pre draft season and is clearly ready for the next step. It's the same situation that some other top prospects were in last season (Matthew Savoie and Conor Geekie).

I am going to personally disagree on Wilson, however. His OHL season was not one to the level where I felt he should have 'skipped' a year like Cristall. Very different players, teams, and situations but:

Wilson went 23 goals + 35 assists (58 points) in 48 games in his D+1 year
Cristall went 40 goals + 71 assists (111 points) in 62 games in his D+1 year

I will always believe that Wilson would have been better suited going back to the OHL for another year as opposed to playing less than 8 minutes a night and scoring 3 goals over an 82 game season. It's a minor miracle he developed into a productive player (and a testament to his hard work).

I have no problem requiring the D+1 year to be played in the junior league as I fully understand the CHL's desire to have great players stay past being drafted, but the D+2 year is tough on players who are clearly ready for the next level. I wouldn't be surprised if we're in this situation with Parascak a year from now.

And many of us feel just like the GM who at the time publicly stated there was little value sending him down to be repeatedly challenged by young dumbs/thugs who want to fight a newly minted 1st rounder to make a name for themselves.

Tom Wilson turned out great. Another year dangling 16 and 17 year olds doesn’t make him a different/better player today……IMO.

 

[Hivemind]

3 times out of 4, it's better to have a prospect playing big minutes in high leverage situations, including special teams, than it is to have them grinding away at 3rd or 4th line minutes with little responsibilities. Being in a pro environment and playing against men is valuable, but so is actually playing. There's no better teacher than experience, and no better practice than game situations. It takes game experience in those offensive situations as a go-to guy playing with the puck on their stick in order to develop that type of hockey IQ and instincts. Rather than slow rolling a player from being an 10 minute guy to a 12 minute guy who PKs to finally breaking 20 goals in their sixth season, it makes sense to let prospects stay in the environment where they'll actually play.

Cristall has done enough to warrant a look at the next level, but I don't think extra CHL time will stunt him. I would be pleased if he got an extended look during training camp, pre-season, and potentially even a <9 game stint in the NHL (if he warrants it) to start the season tho.

 

[Kazer]

And many of us feel just like the GM who at the time publicly stated there was little value sending him down to be repeatedly challenged by young dumbs/thugs who want to fight a newly minted 1st rounder to make a name for themselves.

Tom Wilson turned out great. Another year dangling 16 and 17 year olds doesn’t make him a different/better player today……IMO.

And I always thought that aspect was massively overstated. Wilson had 104 pims his final year in the OHL, down from 141 the year before. He could've cut that back even further by being choosy about when he fights.

Simply put, I disagreed with both aspects. Wilson was 5th on his team in scoring points and 6th in goals prior to entering the NHL. He would have benefitted far more from playing top line, PK, and PP minutes in the OHL than he did by playing less than 8 minutes a night as a 4th line RWer.

I'll go even one step further - Tom had 151 PIMs his rookie year. Was fighting grown men at the NHL level better than fighting 17-20 year old prospects?

FWIW - I agree with McPhee that Tom Wilson probably belonged in the AHL that year but given the choice OHL > NHL.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

And I always thought that aspect was massively overstated. Wilson had 104 pims his final year in the OHL, down from 141 the year before. He could've cut that back even further by being choosy about when he fights.

Simply put, I disagreed with both aspects. Wilson was 5th on his team in scoring points and 6th in goals prior to entering the NHL. He would have benefitted far more from playing top line, PK, and PP minutes in the OHL than he did by playing less than 8 minutes a night as a 4th line RWer.

I'll go even one step further - Tom had 151 PIMs his rookie year. Was fighting grown men at the NHL level better than fighting 17-20 year old prospects?

FWIW - I agree with McPhee that Tom Wilson probably belonged in the AHL that year but given the choice OHL > NHL.

I guess I choose to side with the Professionals at the time who knew better than us…..and I might add, it’s worked out just as planned (if not better depending on who you read criticizing the pick after he was drafted).

Exactly what do you think another year in Jr’s would have returned in the finished product we see today?

Absolutely the AHL would have been the preferred spot if that were allowed, and I have repeatedly said as much. System simply blocked that option, so we chose the 2nd best.

Jr’s would have worked out also, but I don’t think we see a different player today with that path.

Dude more than held his own physically against men….so yeah, I fully agree with the NHL being the better option than risking a career fighting a bunch of dudes who probably never get drafted.

 

[Kazer]

I guess I choose to side with the Professionals at the time who knew better than us…..and I might add, it’s worked out just as planned (if not better depending on who you read criticizing the pick after he was drafted).

Exactly what do you think another year in Jr’s would have returned in the finished product we see today?

Absolutely the AHL would have been the preferred spot if that were allowed, and I have repeatedly said as much. System simply blocked that option, so we chose the 2nd best.

Jr’s would have worked out also, but I don’t think we see a different player today with that path.

Dude more than held his own physically against men….so yeah, I fully agree with the NHL being the better option than risking a career fighting a bunch of dudes who probably never get drafted.

I would argue it would have sped up his development or raised his ceiling (more scoring than 25/50 at his [current] peak). By rushing to the NHL, he spent time learning and focusing on the playstyle that kept him in the lineup - 4th line style play with grinding, defense, fighting, and big hits. That time could have been spent at the OHL and then AHL level focusing on offense, PP (not until 18-19) and PK (not until 15-16). As I already outlined from his production numbers, it's not like he was dominating in juniors. He was the 5th highest point producer and 6th highest goal scorer on his team, and he would have benefitted by (probably) being London's leading goal and point producer in 13-14.

I'm very glad he surpassed being a pure 4th liner, but I cannot say that it was good for his development. This is a purely academic discussion since there is no way to know for sure. Is it better that Lapierre got significant AHL time in 22-23 (which thus made him a better player in 23-24), or would his natural talent have emerged regardless of where he played in 22-23?

(unrelated - the trip down memory lane of the 12-13 and particularly 13-14 is a very dark time). Glad we rebounded in 15-16.)

 

[Calicaps]

guess I choose to side with the Professionals at the time who knew better than us…..and I might add, it’s worked out just as planned (if not better depending on who you read criticizing the pick after he was drafted).

Exactly what do you think another year in Jr’s would have returned in the finished product we see today?

Absolutely the AHL would have been the preferred spot if that were allowed, and I have repeatedly said as much. System simply blocked that option, so we chose the 2nd best.

Jr’s would have worked out also, but I don’t think we see a different player today with that path.

Dude more than held his own physically against men….so yeah, I fully agree with the NHL being the better option than risking a career fighting a bunch of dudes who probably never get drafted.

This. A year in Hershey would've been ideal, but it was on the table. Tom was already a man among boys. And by coming up when he did and playing 3/4 line minutes he learned to defend at the NHL level while also becoming a better skater with Wendy's help. Future captain. Key cog in the Cup machine. What more do you want?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I would argue it would have sped up his development or raised his ceiling (more scoring than 25/50 at his [current] peak). By rushing to the NHL, he spent time learning and focusing on the playstyle that kept him in the lineup - 4th line style play with grinding, defense, fighting, and big hits. That time could have been spent at the OHL and then AHL level focusing on offense, PP (not until 18-19) and PK (not until 15-16). As I already outlined from his production numbers, it's not like he was dominating in juniors. He was the 5th highest point producer and 6th highest goal scorer on his team, and he would have benefitted by (probably) being London's leading goal and point producer in 13-14.

I'm very glad he surpassed being a pure 4th liner, but I cannot say that it was good for his development. This is a purely academic discussion since there is no way to know for sure. Is it better that Lapierre got significant AHL time in 22-23 (which thus made him a better player in 23-24), or would his natural talent have emerged regardless of where he played in 22-23?

(unrelated - the trip down memory lane of the 12-13 and particularly 13-14 is a very dark time). Glad we rebounded in 15-16.)

you could argue....I'm not buying it though. Hell though insert Tom Wilson of today into a lineup with an elite C in their prime and good winger opposite off him and I'd argue his ceiling is around 30+30+ minimum....he's just not playing with that kind of talent here sadly.

He was not dominating Jr's because he wasn't that type of player....you just have yet to accept it. Was it a lock he would have led his team offensively that next year? You're acting like it.

You appear to see a player today that could have been more, is somehow lacking, whereas I see a unicorn when he's on his game and healthy, but not some unrealized offensive talent and I am perfectly happy with him as a Cap so far.

I doubt you could find one person in TW's professional sphere where they are thinking "boy Tommy, you could have been so much better".....

Regarding Lappy, each player has their own path. His is yet to be realized, but as a fairly slight guy who slipped in the draft, I love this path for him. CMM also physically just needed that extra time and both guys are still a work in progress in that area.

 

[DWGie26]

I guess I choose to side with the Professionals at the time who knew better than us…..and I might add, it’s worked out just as planned (if not better depending on who you read criticizing the pick after he was drafted).

Exactly what do you think another year in Jr’s would have returned in the finished product we see today?

Absolutely the AHL would have been the preferred spot if that were allowed, and I have repeatedly said as much. System simply blocked that option, so we chose the 2nd best.

Jr’s would have worked out also, but I don’t think we see a different player today with that path.

Dude more than held his own physically against men….so yeah, I fully agree with the NHL being the better option than risking a career fighting a bunch of dudes who probably never get drafted.

this was my point originally about being frustrated with CHL rules. Players need to graduate to the next level and that is different for every player. Wilson was getting challenged to fights too much and the Caps (McPhee) felt that put him in harms way. Cristal is more playmaking ability which needs to be further developed again a different level of player. Forcing them to only go to NHL is BS on a timeline of 4 FULL years or age 20 birth year. Cristal has played over 3 seasons and should be eligible to go, that is politics and money and not in the players best interest.

 

[Marshall]

n/m Old news.

 

[Kazer]

you could argue....I'm not buying it though. Hell though insert Tom Wilson of today into a lineup with an elite C in their prime and good winger opposite off him and I'd argue his ceiling is around 30+30+ minimum....he's just not playing with that kind of talent here sadly.

He was not dominating Jr's because he wasn't that type of player....you just have yet to accept it. Was it a lock he would have led his team offensively that next year? You're acting like it.

You appear to see a player today that could have been more, is somehow lacking, whereas I see a unicorn when he's on his game and healthy, but not some unrealized offensive talent and I am perfectly happy with him as a Cap so far.

I doubt you could find one person in TW's professional sphere where they are thinking "boy Tommy, you could have been so much better".....

Regarding Lappy, each player has their own path. His is yet to be realized, but as a fairly slight guy who slipped in the draft, I love this path for him. CMM also physically just needed that extra time and both guys are still a work in progress in that area.

I don't think we're going to agree on this issue. However, my point there was that Wilson had room to grow as a player. It's not like he 'dominated' the OHL that year. He wasn't even the best player on his team. While he was physically ready for the NHL (size/strength), he could have developed his game, particularly his offensive game, by going back to his junior team rather than being rushed to the NHL to play 8 minutes a night, fight a lot (Wilson led the team in PIMs by a wide margin his rookie year), and barely show up on the scoresheet.

A lot of players in Wilson's shoes would have lost confidence in their game in that situation. It's a testament to his hard work and mental fortitude that he did not, but it's not a blueprint for success.

What do I actually believe - GMGM rushed Wilson to the NHL to distract from the disastrous Erat trade (earlier the same year) and our horrendous 3rd/4th line depth entering 13-14 with the excuse of 'protecting Wilson from OHL fighting' as justification.