Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines/etc) | 2024-25 Summer Edition

[Jags]

But we brought him back for his chemistry with the team.

There was some of that going on for sure, but we brought him back because Lapierre was stinking up the joint, Eller had returned to form and had been playing well for the Pens, had a far more reasonable cap hit than in days past, and didn't cost much to get. It made sense at the time, and still does to a certain extent because Lars is still good at the things he's always been good at.

But now we have Cup hopes and it'd be nice if we could get Leonard off on the right foot and reignite Mangiapane.

I would also like a better 3C but really dont see a fit unless Barry trades us ROR.

There's a couple other options out there that might also fit the bill, but I agree. Some of the names that have been bandied about would be marginal upgrades if they're upgrades at all. So if we can't get one of the 3 or so guys out there rumored to be available that would fit, yeah, I'm okay standing pat.

But if we stand pat, let's maybe give Lapierre another look -- even if it's just for the coaches at practice -- before the playoffs begin.

 

[SherVaughn30]

I'm going out on a limb. I think we should trade Lindgren. He's having his worst of 3 seasons. Holding onto him you will get nothing, unless a team is willing to trade for his rights. This is supposed to be his contract year, and he's not performing well enough to warrant the rumored $3+ million per year that he might be seeking. I know he's a great locker room guy, but if the rest of roster gets effected negatively if Lindgren is traded, then I question the motivation of the players. To me I don't see the positive of giving a now backup goalie a $1.9+ million raise for playing worse in a contract year. Replacing him for cheaper backup help with experience is not such an issue in my mind. There are other goalies to be had. My reasoning on this? I'm still not particularly fond of goalie coach Scott Murray helping our goalies get out of slumps(for me I'm seeing too many bad habits from Lindgren that he wasn't showing last season). I have to be honest, if for some reason LT goes down due to injury, I'm not really confident in Lindgren being our playoff goalie.

 

[Misery74]

They are not standing pat. Ovechkin has two years left. They won’t sell the farm, but I expect a new third line.

Mangiapane - Not f***ing Eller - Leonard

Eller should be traded in a separate move. He is a UFA and will get us a pick.

As for who substitutes for Eller:

- Lapierre
- ROR
- Nelson
- R. Strome
- Malkin
- Laughton
- Cozens
- Backlund

Nelson is probably the easy button. What is one year of Nelson worth? Would they go for a 2025 first, Mateiko, E. Bear (for cap/contract purposes.

Ovechkin - Strome - Protas
CMM - PLD - Wilson
Mangiapane - Nelson - Leonard
Raddysh - Dowd - Duhaime

Looks better to me.

 

[SherVaughn30]

OK. You want a better hockey player then Eller... I get it, I never said Eller was good anymore, He was washed last time we traded him. But we brought him back for his chemistry with the team.
I would also like a better 3C but really dont see a fit unless Barry trades us ROR.

The way I see Eller, he's still the safe decision @ 3C going into the playoffs. His numbers since we traded for him have been meh, but we all know he brings more than just numbers. Despite him not being what he was for us winning the Cup in '18, you never know what he might do in the playoffs, but it could be a positive thing as opposed to having a young/inexperienced player being the 3C.

 

[SherVaughn30]

They are not standing pat. Ovechkin has two years left. They won’t sell the farm, but I expect a new third line.

Mangiapane - Not f***ing Eller - Leonard

Eller should be traded in a separate move. He is a UFA and will get us a pick.

As for who substitutes for Eller:

- Lapierre
- ROR
- Nelson
- R. Strome
- Malkin
- Laughton
- Cozens
- Backlund

Nelson is probably the easy button. What is one year of Nelson worth? Would they go for a 2025 first, Mateiko, E. Bear (for cap/contract purposes.

Ovechkin - Strome - Protas
CMM - PLD - Wilson
Mangiapane - Nelson - Leonard
Raddysh - Dowd - Duhaime

Looks better to me.

Isn't ROR still a good faceoff guy? I know he can be playoff clutch. You still have to factor in the chemistry factor, so will Eller really be traded? I think when the Caps traded for Eller, it was to get familiar stability for the 3C position, for the regular season and going into the playoffs.

 

[Kazer]

I'm not afraid of those moves. Vrana and Milano are the odd men out now, and I don't think we miss them. So they're the candidates to go if we acquire another forward and Leonard signs. Then Frank and another guy become the extra forwards (Raddysh?). I'm fine with that. You'd have to explain to me why I shouldn't be, because I can't think of a reason.

You're still looking at this from a purely hockey perspective. Chemistry goes off the ice too. Players are professionals, but they're also human beings. They're friends and colleagues. As others have pointed out, the core of this team (Ovechkin, Carlson, Wilson) won the cup with Eller. Vrana has been a great comeback story. Even if he's not playing regularly, he's still with the guys day in, day out. Same with Milano. Same with Frank, who has been a great story (and the other players clearly love him). Same with Big Al (AA). I was struck early in the year by how much the team loved that McIlrath 'made' the team.

And I believe 100% that human fit (off the ice) is a big part of why the team was able to absorb so many year over year changes with great success. This isn't NHL 24.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

You can watch it here:

I don’t get the impression they are standing pat from this. I think they aren’t going to sell the farm though just to make a move is what I took.

 

[qc14]

As for who substitutes for Eller:

- Lapierre
- ROR
- Nelson
- R. Strome
- Malkin
- Laughton
- Cozens
- Backlund

I don't think a lot of these guys are actually that much better than Eller ...

 

[SherVaughn30]

I don't think a lot of these guys are actually that much better than Eller ...

Plus the fact we might have to cough up too many assets to acquire some of these players just to try more to win a 2nd Cup? Like seriously Malkin? I would never see the Pens trade him unless someone stupidly overpays to acquire him. Divisional trades are always far more expensive in terms of what you would have to give up. I think Eller was our very early move and we'll stick with him at 3C going into the playoffs. Only moves made will be experienced depth on D/Forward for like a marginal draft pick/prospect.

 

[Misery74]

I don't think a lot of these guys are actually that much better than Eller ...

They are all better than Eller. Some, like Laughton and Backlund, maybe marginally.

The rest are all much better than Eller.

If we roll into the playoffs with Eller as 3c, I will be shocked. He cannot carry that role on a Cup contender, in 2025.

 

[Langway]

I think if they're going to disrupt things and displace Eller it has to be a clear and obvious upgrade. Laughton isn't that. Lapierre even if he gets going is likely to give up as much as he creates. That goes for Ryan Strome as well IMO. They need more offense to be sure but going high event likely isn't it either.

I'm definitely on record disbelieving Dylan Strome at 2C and their bottom six center mix will be adequate for a deep run but Eller is still at least a strong possession center. I would think about putting Ovechkin with Eller and Frank (then Leonard) as the best way of mixing strengths and weaknesses. That may be the best way for Strome to have a better shot of producing 5v5 as well. They could do that with a Nelson or ROR I guess but to what extent would systems unfamiliarity and lack of reps neutralize paper gains? That's the big question for me. Options like Laughton are a grass is greener thing. Not an upgrade. Not worth the disruption and better suited for LW and pure insurance if anything. As an aside, Josh Norris intrigues me if he's really available...

They do need to get back to playing tighter defensively. I don't think they ought to go the checker route at the deadline mainly because that absolute monster center probably isn't out there and a shutdown winger is a relatively inconsequential addition. It's a delicate balance...not just making a move vs. not but striking the right balance in two-way acumen that also presents a contrast to what they already have. I don't think it's impossible to find the right fit but in a weak market the vast majority of options aren't it. Like, a Tanev. Don't bother. Only bother if the disruption payoff could be substantial. I don't buy too much into the fragility of this group. They'd deal with anything sensible but marginal upgrades aren't it. Useful as insurance but not in any way galvanizing probably.

 

[Jags]

You're still looking at this from a purely hockey perspective.

I tried looking at it from the badminton perspective, but Ovi kept breaking the rackets.

Players are professionals, but they're also human beings.

Have you heard what Chychrun eats? SOME of them are human beings, but maybe not ALL of them.

They're friends and colleagues.

Who each became friends and colleagues with the others when they arrived as new players. I have heard that Brock Nelson and Ryan O'Reilly are, in fact, capable of friendliness and collegiality. And yes, that IS a word. I looked it up.

As others have pointed out, the core of this team (Ovechkin, Carlson, Wilson) won the cup with Eller.

They won it with over a dozen other guys that are also MIA today. And look! They're back in Cup-caliber form! Even without them! How did they DO that???

And I believe 100% that human fit (off the ice) is a big part of why the team was able to absorb so many year over year changes with great success.

Yeah, I agree. They've all been saying so. And a bunch of them are brand new, including the coaches. They created this new culture together, and if that culture is so profound then I'm sure it's not fragile. I have a hard time believing that Lars Eller is the glue holding it all together.

And I'll point out again that I doubt anyone's looking to trade for Eller at the moment. Chances are good that we'd be able to keep him, and decent that he could stay in the lineup.

This isn't NHL 24.

It's not?!?!?!? That's shocking! Because lotsa folks are recommending a perfectly reasonable TDL hockey trade -- the type that happens several times over every single season. So this MUST be a video game! Only a gamer could conceive of such a ho-hum hockey move...

 

[qc14]

The rest are all much better than Eller.

If we roll into the playoffs with Eller as 3c, I will be shocked. He cannot carry that role on a Cup contender, in 2025.

Of the guys you listed, in a 3c role for the playoffs this year:
Lappy is strictly worse than Eller in every facet of the game
Cozens and R. Strome need the kind of deployment that our lineup is not constructed to give
Laughton and Backlund are not worth the 1st+ that they probably command
Malkin is not getting moved

I'd definitely take ROR or Nelson. If I'm GM I probably pull the trigger on one of them. I also totally get the mindset of not wanting to give up the 1st+ they probably command.

I'm definitely on record disbelieving Dylan Strome at 2C and their bottom six center mix will be adequate for a deep run but Eller is still at least a strong possession center. I would think about putting Ovechkin with Eller and Frank (then Leonard) as the best way of mixing strengths and weaknesses. That may be the best way for Strome to have a better shot of producing 5v5 as well. They could do that with a Nelson or ROR I guess but to what extent would systems unfamiliarity and lack of reps neutralize paper gains? That's the big question for me. Options like Laughton are a grass is greener thing. Not an upgrade. Not worth the disruption and better suited for LW and pure insurance if anything. As an aside, Josh Norris intrigues me if he's really available...

Why move Ovi away from Strome and then have two lines you need to give favorable deployments to instead of 1? Eller is a good defensive player still, let him play to that strength and give you three lines that are extremely capable in matchup minutes and allow you to put Ovi/Strome out there together in search of offense.

 

[qc14]

I'm going out on a limb. I think we should trade Lindgren. He's having his worst of 3 seasons. Holding onto him you will get nothing, unless a team is willing to trade for his rights. This is supposed to be his contract year, and he's not performing well enough to warrant the rumored $3+ million per year that he might be seeking. I know he's a great locker room guy, but if the rest of roster gets effected negatively if Lindgren is traded, then I question the motivation of the players. To me I don't see the positive of giving a now backup goalie a $1.9+ million raise for playing worse in a contract year. Replacing him for cheaper backup help with experience is not such an issue in my mind. There are other goalies to be had. My reasoning on this? I'm still not particularly fond of goalie coach Scott Murray helping our goalies get out of slumps(for me I'm seeing too many bad habits from Lindgren that he wasn't showing last season). I have to be honest, if for some reason LT goes down due to injury, I'm not really confident in Lindgren being our playoff goalie.

Having insurance for a playoff run is much more important than the 2nd (??) he would probably command. Move him and you're one play away from having Hunter f***ing Shepard in a playoff game which is completely unacceptable

 

[Langway]

Why move Ovi away from Strome and then have two lines you need to give favorable deployments to instead of 1? Eller is a good defensive player still, let him play to that strength and give you three lines that are extremely capable in matchup minutes and allow you to put Ovi/Strome out there together in search of offense.

How many teams can put out three highly formidable scoring lines, though? They need to worry more about dictating than handling an extreme amount of matchups. I'd be less concerned with deployments than finding a more favorable match-up for either Strome or Ovechkin. Because together it doesn't seem super tenable and especially doesn't seem to have much potential to operate at a high playoff pace.

I guess I get trying to goose the third line to help offset a likely limited second line and sort of quarantining 8/17 together. A Nelson-Leonard third line gives them a different flavor that could come at teams in waves and open things up for other lines. The East being wide open also should help them be open to being aggressive. Even with aspects of an underbelly remaining...why not them? Superior depth can go a way.

They can afford to give up their first and a Mateiko for Nelson. I wouldn't love it since it's likely a one-off but it'd be manageable. I'd probably prefer giving up one of their '25 seconds over Mateiko. Even with Boston's second trending earlier I don't think the depth is there.