Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines/etc) | 2024-25 Summer Edition

[CapitalsCupReality]

He was so good last season and the playoffs. Its hard to figure out whats going on with him. The talent and skill is in him. Its hard to give up on that. I really want the coaches to get him going again.

We all do.

 

[Kazer]

I also think 1st+Lapierre is a bit much for a 3C, even if its elite 3C.

But what do you do with Lapierre if you trade for ROR? Theres no center spot for him the next 2+ seasons, so he’ll just tank his value in Hershey.

Id rather do Lapierre+ than a 1st for ROR.

I don't think we should trade for ROR (at least not while we have Eller.. maybe in the offseason), but ROR is not a 3C. He might be a 3C here by pure virtue of having Strome and PLD, but he would be a 2C on many (if not most) NHL teams and could probably be a fill in 1C on a team with weak center depth and/or injuries. Even on a very low-scoring Nashville team, ROR is on pace for 20+ goals and 50 points.

On a semi-related note, trading Lapierre before next season makes a ton of sense if the organization does not view him as a full-time NHLer in 25-26. Being in the AHL this year is disappointing but not unheard of. But if he's not on the team and contributing next year, his value is going to tank considerably (much more than it has).

Also, I agree completely with Wodka that Lappy was so good last year (arguably our second best forward in the playoffs after Wilson), but we're looking at nearly a full year of 'meh' level play. Was last year an anomaly? I would feel more confident in Lappy bouncing back if his D+2 and D+3 years were stronger or if he was dominating in Hershey (rather than playing at a mediocre level).

 

[Roshi]

He was so good last season and the playoffs. Its hard to figure out whats going on with him. The talent and skill is in him. Its hard to give up on that. I really want the coaches to get him going again.

i was superb high on him! The series against Rangers, the AHL playoffs, he had GAME. I was ready to give him 2C spot.

He def can turn it around again and we end up looking stupid to talking about trading him, but biggest problem with that suprisingly is we suddenly became too good to have the patience of letting him play through it. We are on the clock! The road looks rocky and the time is not on Lappys side after losing the 3C spot.

 

[Random schmoe]

Apologies if this is old news, but just perusing Frank Seravalli's Trade Targets board (updated today), I stopped to read a separate writeup on Jake Evans. In the 'Potential Suitors' section he stated:

"Believe the Caps were the team that tried to acquire Evans last summer at the Draft in exchange for a second-round pick, and that makes some sense. They’ve tried to fill that 3C role this year with Lars Eller, but Evans would be a better fit."

I'm not sure how relevant it is anymore, given their subsequent acquisition of Eller, but thought it interesting and enlightening.

 

[Calicaps]

I don't think we should trade for ROR (at least not while we have Eller.. maybe in the offseason), but ROR is not a 3C. He might be a 3C here by pure virtue of having Strome and PLD, but he would be a 2C on many (if not most) NHL teams and could probably be a fill in 1C on a team with weak center depth and/or injuries. Even on a very low-scoring Nashville team, ROR is on pace for 20+ goals and 50 points.

On a semi-related note, trading Lapierre before next season makes a ton of sense if the organization does not view him as a full-time NHLer in 25-26. Being in the AHL this year is disappointing but not unheard of. But if he's not on the team and contributing next year, his value is going to tank considerably (much more than it has).

Also, I agree completely with Wodka that Lappy was so good last year (arguably our second best forward in the playoffs after Wilson), but we're looking at nearly a full year of 'meh' level play. Was last year an anomaly? I would feel more confident in Lappy bouncing back if his D+2 and D+3 years were stronger or if he was dominating in Hershey (rather than playing at a mediocre level).

It's confusing bcuz a few posters who've watched him at times in Hershey have described him as "amazing" and "a man among boys" but the points just aren't there and he's playing down the lineup. And then he got hurt. I'm hoping the all-star break provided a reset for him and he'll be better coming out of that. Would be such a boon for him to find his form in time to join the Caps again this season. Solving problems from within > trading.

 

[Kolzilla]

Apologies if this is old news, but just perusing Frank Seravalli's Trade Targets board (updated today), I stopped to read a separate writeup on Jake Evans. In the 'Potential Suitors' section he stated:

"Believe the Caps were the team that tried to acquire Evans last summer at the Draft in exchange for a second-round pick, and that makes some sense. They’ve tried to fill that 3C role this year with Lars Eller, but Evans would be a better fit."

I'm not sure how relevant it is anymore, given their subsequent acquisition of Eller, but thought it interesting and enlightening.

Wouldn't be surprised if WSH targets Evans in FA this summer.

 

[Jags]

We all do.

Definitely. It's similar to what happened early in Vrana's career. We had this kid on the farm that seemed ready to go, but the Caps were pretty stacked, there wasn't an obvious spot for him, and the success of the team was more important than the potential disruption of trying to get him going.

We probably could have worked through Lappy's struggles early on, but the team went on a tear and sustaining that was simply more important. Sorry, kid. We'll check in with you when we need you, or we'll see you next year.

I don't think we should trade for ROR (at least not while we have Eller.. maybe in the offseason), but ROR is not a 3C. He might be a 3C here by pure virtue of having Strome and PLD, but he would be a 2C on many (if not most) NHL teams and could probably be a fill in 1C on a team with weak center depth and/or injuries. Even on a very low-scoring Nashville team, ROR is on pace for 20+ goals and 50 points.

True, but there's what a guy is in general, then what he is for this particular team. If we had blah wing talent outside our top 6, we'd probably be fine leaning on Eller. And Eller has played pretty well. He's just not a guy that's going to help a line perform offensively.

But we DO have wing talent to spread around, and we could also add a good one if we had a 3C that could leverage what they bring. So we could...

a) Add a TDL wing and hope he can overcome a 3C with lackluster offensive awareness.

b) Add a TDL center that can help leverage the 3W talent we already have, or...

c) Get both.

I don't see any reason that any of those options are off the table. If we think ROR can perform in line with the rest of his contract or be moved again, it's a good option that might not cost us big. Nelson and Evans also have more of that gear that Eller lacks.

On my phone, so can't look up the cap on a trade, but I think (maybe) we can make it work for futures and keep Eller and Mangiapane for the playoff run. ROR might click with Mangiapane/Leonard, might spark Miro or keep Frank going. Or we can swap around some top 6 wings, too. A center with offensive upside unlocks possibilities for us.

 

[twabby]

Since you punked him in this post, @twabby PLEASE post the individual player cards for Tuch vs CMM…..

Sure thing. Click the spoiler to show the cards.

Spoiler

CMM this year:

Last 3 years:

Tuch this year:

Last 3 years:

 

[Ridley Simon]

He's got 8 points in 9 games now, and he's got 2 goals in his last 4 games. Hell, he's inside the top 80 forwards in the league for points and top 60 for goals. He is that borderline first line player you're looking for.

We get it. You don’t want to trade him. I’m concerned this is his peak, as I still really couldn’t tell you what he truly excels at. I’d admit same w Lapierre. They ARE good players, but they aren’t special in any way.

Protas, you could see it
Leonard, you can see it
Cristall (IF he’s not too small, and now that he can skate better), you can see it
Hutson, you can see it.

I don’t see it w Lappy or CMM. I like them, but I certainly dont think that they can’t upgraded on for Ovy’s last 2 runs.

Maybe you do w CMM. It’s ok to disagree man

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

I’m fine with moving CMM but needs to be for a player with some term IMHO.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Totally, agree. But I similarly don't believe in the TDL arms race narrative. The Canes did it, the Rags did it, so must we do... something. In all this analysis of McMike, I think it was overlooked that our LINES were hot the first half of the year. It wasn't specific guys spurring it all on, or one or two glue guys making it all work. The chemistry was insane, and continues to be.

It was EVERYTHING that Carbs said at his introductory presser last year. He kept stressing playing with pace, and in today's NHL that's cohesion and continuity, plain and simple. Feet moving, precision passing, go go go. Our team chemistry is as good as it has maybe ever been (stem to stern), and McMike isn't a passenger. He's been elevating others as much as they've helped him.

Upsetting that isn't something I'd do willy-nilly. And I know that's not what YOU are suggesting, but lotsa folks are champing at the bit to make a deal. I think we can all agree that "The Right Trade" is pretty much always a good idea, but it's hard to see what that would realistically look like when we continue to prove capable of beating anyone.



Sure, me too. And I'm sure you agree that the worst feeling is watching those young guys rise big time wearing someone else's sweater.

I've had enough of that shit. We won a Cup with a bunch of prospects stepping up in big moments, and without sexy TDL adds. I'm looking at our depth right now, the likely call-ups from Hershey, and Leonard, and I'm willing to bet that they can contribute when called upon.

I think Lappy, Protas, Miro, and McMike and might be able to chip in like Walker, Stephenson, Vrana, and Boyd did. And if you think of McMike as less of a prospect and more of a slow-developing tweener, remember that Burakovsky pretty much won us a Game 7 by himself. Ya never know when that blind squirrel's gonna pot a couple'a nuts.

So yeah, I'm all for "The Right Trade" but if that nebulous idea doesn't surface, maybe add a little depth and soldier on. I like our team.



Not that particular way, no. I like Tuch a lot, but I don't see the virtue in that specific trade idea. If that's the only way to get him, I'd pass and let Tuch's playoff legacy with us remain that one goal he DIDN'T score.

That’s a lot of words, even for you, good sir.

I think Tuch can take over and win games. And not in the “blind squirrel can find a nut” type way.

Do you know plays the most minutes for the forwards in Buffalo?

Do you who only has 10% of his 40pts, from the PP?

Do you know who leads his team — by a long shot — in plus/minus?

Sure — these aren’t your basic boxcar stats, but they show the value he brings to a team.

He’s still just 28, he’s defensively responsible, he’s a PITA to play against, he’s an all situations RW, and is flatly a much better all around player than CMM is …..right now. I think it’s a REALLY safe wager, that he will also be a lot better than CMM next year (yeah, my crystal ball is out), too.

This is maximizing Ovy’s window. I very much think Tuch could be the difference between long runs and not. It’s all fine lines in the playoffs.

So again, I’d deal Tuch, their late 1st, and a
B level prospect (I said Sudzalov) for Tuch. In a heartbeat.

Sure, he may not be available. “Wishing will not make it so” . Yeah no shit. I’m 55 dude. I learned that lesson a long f***ing time ago

 

[alphabetical]

We get it. You don’t want to trade him. I’m concerned this is his peak, as I still really couldn’t tell you what he truly excels at. I’d admit same w Lapierre. They ARE good players, but they aren’t special in any way.

Protas, you could see it
Leonard, you can see it
Cristall (IF he’s not too small, and now that he can skate better), you can see it
Hutson, you can see it.

I don’t see it w Lappy or CMM. I like them, but I certainly dont think that they can’t upgraded on for Ovy’s last 2 runs.

Maybe you do w CMM. It’s ok to disagree man

I think there's a big difference between you and me. You seem focused on getting Ovechkin another cup, and I am more focused on making sure the team remains good after he's done. On that, we just won't see eye to eye, and it goes a long way towards helping me understand why you and a few others want minor upgrades swapping younger for older players.

You can say someone's not special, but that's not a meaningful complaint to me. I'm sorry, but I just don't place any value in what you think is special. I guess we'll have to disagree on the merit of your eye test, too.

CMM is a player that's found another level of offensive production. You seem to see it as an aberration, and I see it as part of the development that's expected from young players. Again, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one for the time being, but time will invariably tell whether this whole season is just a statistical aberration for CMM. I expect CMM's abilities and trade value to improve in the next few years as he approaches his peak performance around age 27 or 28, just like most forwards in the NHL.

 

[Langway]

For me the thing with McMichael is what sort of secondary value does he provide when not scoring? Does he at least check with some conviction? He does not. He's still too soft. It's also partly why he's so streaky. While he's crafty and can finish I'd hesitate to invest long-term in that type when they have a more dynamic talent in Cristall and also any number of other developing wingers coming up. They could perhaps flip him even if extended but he does need to prove he's essential...

They bridged him before. I believe he'll have two remaining RFA years left when his current deal is up. I don't think they'll move him at the deadline but were he to sputter, not produce when it matters most and not elevate his competitiveness his status should be on notice. A well organized franchise maintains their standard and realizes even without Ovechkin that desperation is dangerous. In insuring a consistently high standard they need to value the true impact players and the stabilizers more than the secondary benefactors that don't drive play and sort of pitch in only in one area. I'm not sure I expect McMichael to become a play driver. It doesn't seem to be in his DNA as a player. The same definitely goes for Lapierre and a decision should be nearing on him. They're not dogged enough at the highest level, in part due to physical profile but it's hard to pin it on just that. I'm not sure Miro is explosive enough to drive player either but he at least provides traditional bottom six grit and craft around the net.

They're ahead of schedule in so many different ways. Time to reassess and crystalize how they can take that last and most difficult step. It's probably going to require Patrick's best work yet.

 

[Misery74]

For me the thing with McMichael is what sort of secondary value does he provide when not scoring? Does he at least check with some conviction? He does not. He's still too soft. It's also partly why he's so streaky. While he's crafty and can finish I'd hesitate to invest long-term in that type when they have a more dynamic talent in Cristall and also any number of other developing wingers coming up. They could perhaps flip him even if extended but he does need to prove he's essential...

They bridged him before. I believe he'll have two remaining RFA years left when his current deal is up. I don't think they'll move him at the deadline but were he to sputter, not produce when it matters most and not elevate his competitiveness his status should be on notice. A well organized franchise maintains their standard and realizes even without Ovechkin that desperation is dangerous. In insuring a consistently high standard they need to value the true impact players and the stabilizers more than the secondary benefactors that don't drive play and sort of pitch in only in one area. I'm not sure I expect McMichael to become a play driver. It doesn't seem to be in his DNA as a player. The same definitely goes for Lapierre and a decision should be nearing on him. They're not dogged enough at the highest level, in part due to physical profile but it's hard to pin it on just that. I'm not sure Miro is explosive enough to drive player either but he at least provides traditional bottom six grit and craft around the net.

They're ahead of schedule in so many different ways. Time to reassess and crystalize how they can take that last and most difficult one. It's probably going to require Patrick's best work yet.

Move McMichael this Summer, unless, something crazy shakes loose with a non rental.

And, do we really think RyLo will be here in April? I’m starting to get heart palpitations.

 

[wickedwitch]

For me the thing with McMichael is what sort of secondary value does he provide when not scoring? Does he at least check with some conviction? He does not. He's still too soft. It's also partly why he's so streaky. While he's crafty and can finish I'd hesitate to invest long-term in that type when they have a more dynamic talent in Cristall and also any number of other developing wingers coming up. They could perhaps flip him even if extended but he does need to prove he's essential...

I'm not CMM's biggest defender or anything, but I think his two-way play is actually one of his strengths. You don't have to be incredibly physical to play good defense. So I'm pretty confused by the whole "he doesn't provide value when no scoring" argument.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Sure thing. Click the spoiler to show the cards.

Spoiler

CMM this year:

View attachment 974222


Last 3 years:
View attachment 974224

Tuch this year:
View attachment 974228

Last 3 years:
View attachment 974230

I dont know fancy charts much but CMM D ranking is much higher then I thought it would be

 

[Langway]

I'm not CMM's biggest defender or anything, but I think his two-way play is actually one of his strengths. You don't have to be incredibly physical to play good defense. So I'm pretty confused by the whole "he doesn't provide value when no scoring" argument.

The player cards twabby posted and the analytics disagree. He's poor. He passes the eye-test more than Vrana I guess or a Burakovsky. He's not completely clueless without the puck. But even going back to junior he'd cut corners away from the puck and not put in the work to recover it. Little has changed.

It's less McMichael in isolation being untrustworthy. The coaching staff has still managed to find time for him. He's surprisingly played two seconds more per game than Wilson 5v5. But it's the veracity of the fit in a top six that already features a couple of underwhelming athletic and general off-puck forwards in Ovechkin and Strome. Come playoff time I doubt half of their top six can afford to be either indifferent or incapable of winning pucks back.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I think there's a big difference between you and me. You seem focused on getting Ovechkin another cup, and I am more focused on making sure the team remains good after he's done. On that, we just won't see eye to eye, and it goes a long way towards helping me understand why you and a few others want minor upgrades swapping younger for older players.

You can say someone's not special, but that's not a meaningful complaint to me. I'm sorry, but I just don't place any value in what you think is special. I guess we'll have to disagree on the merit of your eye test, too.

CMM is a player that's found another level of offensive production. You seem to see it as an aberration, and I see it as part of the development that's expected from young players. Again, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one for the time being, but time will invariably tell whether this whole season is just a statistical aberration for CMM. I expect CMM's abilities and trade value to improve in the next few years as he approaches his peak performance around age 27 or 28, just like most forwards in the NHL.

I will correct you on something — I want another Cup, period. I waited 40yrs our first, I simply don’t have another long period to wait.

To that end, I think having Ovechkin on the team gives them their “best” chance at achieving it in my remaining lifetime.

But that’s just me.

Whomever believes each others assessments of players isn’t relevant at all. So no big deal there. What matters most is what the brain trust thinks, and I have been an apologist for them, for years. And it’s proven me correct.

So, I will await what happens, however it’s a message board, so?

 

[zappa4ever]

I've been in the 'prove it' camp on McMic the last cpl years and I think he's developing like a fledgling
Trying to fledge from n00b > established Top-6 NHL'er hasn't been linear, but he continues to improve overall

I think he fully realized last summer that he needs to beef up and get stronger and faster and hungrier to compete in The Big League and 1st 25gms this year he looked great and confident, faster and stronger; since, he's obv regressed... I suspect conditioning* and the team flying under the radar for 20+gms as big factors, now we're getting everybody's best game it seems
* not disparaging, just surmising that last year he was in fair condition, this year is pretty good condition, but next year he needs to get to that next level of 99th percentile conditioning to show that the 1st 25gms this year weren't an aberration and he can maintain a top level all year

If he's got that Beagle in him to be the hardest working man in show business he could be quite like a Captain Intangibles from CHI

 

[Silky mitts]

I will correct you on something — I want another Cup, period. I waited 40yrs our first, I simply don’t have another long period to wait.

To that end, I think having Ovechkin on the team gives them their “best” chance at achieving it in my remaining lifetime.

But that’s just me.

Whomever believes each others assessments of players isn’t relevant at all. So no big deal there. What matters most is what the brain trust thinks, and I have been an apologist for them, for years. And it’s proven me correct.

So, I will await what happens, however it’s a message board, so?

If you had to choose one of these deals which would you choose
CMM for Brock Nelson
2025 1st and future 2nd for Brock Nelson
Bruins 2025 2nd for Kyle Palmeiri
I’ve been thinking best forward for non 1st is always going to be the path

 

[crab]

The player cards twabby posted and the analytics disagree. He's poor. He passes the eye-test more than Vrana I guess or a Burakovsky. He's not completely clueless without the puck. But even going back to junior he'd cut corners away from the puck and not put in the work to recover it. Little has changed.

It's less McMichael in isolation being untrustworthy. The coaching staff has still managed to find time for him. He's surprisingly played two seconds more per game than Wilson 5v5. But it's the veracity of the fit in a top six that already features a couple of underwhelming athletic and general off-puck forwards in Ovechkin and Strome. Come playoff time I doubt half of their top six can afford to be either indifferent or incapable of winning pucks back.

He was really pushing the pace and seemed much more explosive at the start of the season. Not sure where that part of his game went.

 

[Kazer]

It's confusing bcuz a few posters who've watched him at times in Hershey have described him as "amazing" and "a man among boys" but the points just aren't there and he's playing down the lineup. And then he got hurt. I'm hoping the all-star break provided a reset for him and he'll be better coming out of that. Would be such a boon for him to find his form in time to join the Caps again this season. Solving problems from within > trading.

100% - I've always loved the talent level even going back to his cup of coffee in 21-22. While he was over-matched at the time, there is a certain talent level he showed that you cannot teach. The problem seems to be reaching that level with any sort of consistency. Consistency is an underrated factor in being a good NHL player.

@Jags - I completely agree that RoR would be a good fit here and a significant upgrade. The problem is what then do you do with Eller? Does he join the 4th line? Does he get benched? I really don't like Eller's game as a 3rd line winger at all. So while I agree with basically everything you said, the underlying issue is not anything to do with RoR but with Eller. ROR makes a ton of sense to me as an off-season 2025 addition if the brain-trust wants to go that direction.

I would rather grab a winger (any top 9 level) simply because if you grab a 3C you immediately create a second issue that then needs to be addressed. This same logic applies to other C options unless they are a good fit on the wing. That's why I'm a fan of Donato as he would immediately and comfortably fit in the middle six. I just wish he shot right.

 

[qc14]

If you had to choose one of these deals which would you choose
CMM for Brock Nelson
2025 1st and future 2nd for Brock Nelson
Bruins 2025 2nd for Kyle Palmeiri
I’ve been thinking best forward for non 1st is always going to be the path

25 1st and 2nd for Nelson and it's not particularly close.

Their first this year is pretty much guaranteed to be 25oa+ and while the top 10 is very strong this year there's a big lack of depth in this year's draft. Who knows when they're going to be this good again. Make the roster as good as possible this year and go for it.

 

[895]

CMM for Brock Nelson would make the team worse today and in the future.

 

[Langway]

I’ve been thinking best forward for non 1st is always going to be the path

I'm not sure they'd be as hesitant this year not to move the first. It's going to be in the 27-32 range probably in what's a below average draft. They can well afford to not have it after this past draft class.

Donato would be my main value rental target. He's a Mass guy and still somewhat young. I don't believe he'd require retention, unlike some others. He's already almost at 20-20 this season (granted, on a shitty team). He's sort of a Connolly type...maybe slightly better. Donato-Eller-Leonard is the ticket if they want to go cheap. Of course, they probably ought to be aiming to upgrade the top six but if not...

Beyond that I could see Pageau with retention not costing a first in a slim sale scenario for the Isles. Gourde probably doesn't cost a first with his injury and the Caps could afford to stash him on LTIR for most of the remaining regular season. Other options like ROR, Laughton, Schenn, Marchand and Tuch would cost more. I'd be prepared to pay reasonable prices. I definitely wouldn't hesitate to move their 2025 picks and any prospect(s) deemed expendable.

Thanks to Carbery they should be on a quality path through any transitions. This is perhaps the last best hope for the 8/74 era and they definitely need to act like it. Not recklessly. They need to be as clinical as they were in the off-season. But by all means they ought to be strategizing a way to scalp another savage top sixer to give them possibly the finishing piece of the puzzle.