Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines/etc) | 2024-25 Summer Edition

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don’t even know what I’m reading right now. Trade three firsts for Alex Tuch who is a power forward and will be 30 in a season and a half when his contract is up? The same Alex Tuch that plays in Buffalo? The same Alex Tuch who has never been a great defensive player and whose goals dropped nearly 40% last season from the prior season? He has one 30-goal season and two 20-goal seasons in nine seasons and he’d get no PP1 time here.

There’s a big difference between hoarding your nuts and overpaying for the sake of making a move. Trading all of these assets for a guy who realistically might be our fourth best RWer next year behind Pro, Wilson, and Leonard is wild. And, even if you’re super high on Tuch and think he’d be better than all of Leonard, Protas, and Wilson — which is highly unlikely — he gets one full season with the team before he’s gone.

If you want to go after something big, look at LW and move CMM to 3C. LW depth is much thinner than RW depth.

Come on man…You know damn well they would acquire him with the intent to extend him given the cost. It would be a core addition.

That said, I’ve already made it clear that if I’m moving CMM it would probably only be for a bigger addition. Either that or I would need a lot of convincing that Tuch’s one 30g, near 80 pt (79) season wasn’t a unicorn…

 

[Ridley Simon]

IMO, Connor McMichael is still developing and growing. And the entire notion that we are debating trading what could very possibly be a 30 goal scorer, for an upgrade, who is signed only through next year, instead of holding onto CMM, and seeing how well he can develop him kind of just hurts my brain and soul. I don't think I can stress this enough, NHL level 30 goals scorers, do not grow on trees, and one's that are competent off the puck/capable two-way forwards are even less common.

Outside Alex Ovechkin the only the one the Caps have had in the past decade is a single season of TJ Oshie.

CMM has 5g and 13pts in his last 28 games.

I hope he’s a 25g scorer, much less 30g.

We ALL may need to pump the breaks here. Everyone wants to see the next 30g scorer for the Caps. I’d wager it won’t be CMM. Hence why I want to trade him.

 

[um]

I’d rather do CMM for JT MIiller.

Tuch is nothing special outside of his career year.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

IMO, Connor McMichael is still developing and growing. And the entire notion that we are debating trading what could very possibly be a 30 goal scorer, for an upgrade, who is signed only through next year, instead of holding onto CMM, and seeing how well he can develop him kind of just hurts my brain and soul. I don't think I can stress this enough, NHL level 30 goals scorers, do not grow on trees, and one's that are competent off the puck/capable two-way forwards are even less common.

Outside Alex Ovechkin the only the one the Caps have had in the past decade is a single season of TJ Oshie.

Who was acquired how? A successful trade!

Became an instant core piece and integral to winning the Cup. I think Rids is envisioning a similar impact with this acquisition. Players do tend to do well here after moving on from worse franchises, so that’s what you would hope to replicate with a Tuch add.

If he’s back to 30g, 70+ points for the next handful of years…..that’s enticing.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I don’t even know what I’m reading right now. Trade three firsts for Alex Tuch who is a power forward and will be 30 in a season and a half when his contract is up? The same Alex Tuch that plays in Buffalo? The same Alex Tuch who has never been a great defensive player and whose goals dropped nearly 40% last season from the prior season? He has one 30-goal season and two 20-goal seasons in nine seasons and he’d get no PP1 time here.

There’s a big difference between hoarding your nuts and overpaying for the sake of making a move. Trading all of these assets for a guy who realistically might be our fourth best RWer next year behind Pro, Wilson, and Leonard is wild. And, even if you’re super high on Tuch and think he’d be better than all of Leonard, Protas, and Wilson — which is highly unlikely — he gets one full season with the team before he’s gone.

If you want to go after something big, look at LW and move CMM to 3C. LW depth is much thinner than RW depth.

Holy Hyberbole brother. Who said 3 1sts? Anywhere?

I get that CMM WAS a first. But that’s ancient history. So was Vrana. Is he still considered “trading a first”? (As was LuJo, and Lapierre, and Samsonov, etc etc etc).

CMM had a GREAT first 16 games. 20pts. That awesome. Seriously.

However, since? He’s been a sub 40pt scorer over his past 28 games. 28! He was a 33pt scorer last year. So 33 to 38pts (his last 28games) makes sense to me. OBV he’s gets some hot pants on occasionally — hence his first 16g, when our entire roster was crushing it (his dip coincides w Ovy’s injury…. hmmmm….food for thought).

But he’s back to who he was. A solid 3rd line player, maybe able to elevate to the 2nd line where needed. But people calling him a 60pt scorer are going to be very disappointed. I hope he hits 50+. Even with his Hot Pant start.

Tuch is so much better than him. Look at his numbers. Just look. Total points AND goals.

A late first this year and a prospect like Sudz or Hofer or Rybinski isn’t going to hurt the teams future.

We can agree to disagree.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Im just not that impressed with the trade block right now. Hopefully we get more sellers.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I’d rather do CMM for JT MIiller.

Tuch is nothing special outside of his career year.

JT Miller makes 8m a year for this year and 3more. How would that work, exactly? Retention? How much would be have to add, to get that?

Not being a dick, I just don’t see a player of that contract being added. We don’t have the space (unless we dump Mangiapane and others).

 

[wickedwitch]

I will simply address the bolded.

If someone like CMM is NOT a part of a deal, then the futures lost will grow. Like a lot. Like a Miro or a Cristall (which I would be fine w, Cristall) or a Mateinko or someone worse.

A late first plus a Sudzalev type isn’t going to hurt the future of this team, IMO. Obv it’s ALL a crapshoot, right?

CMM could score more points than Tuch in the next 2yrs (doubt it, but it’s certainly possible). CMM could also have seen his peak scoring, his first 16 games this year (20pts!!).

CMM has 13 pts (5g/8a) his last 28 games!!

Let that sink in. He’s at less than a 40pt pace for the last 3rd of the season. That is NOT a small sample size.

Nobody is as good as they are when they're hot or as bad as they are when they're cold. 40 points for CMM would still be an improvement over last season -- and that's at his worst. So he's a) still improving and b) at his worst is a .5 point/game player. Plus, he's very good defensively (and improving in that too).

Also, everybody but PLD went cold offensively and this is a team sport. When other players go cold, it's going to hurt CMM's numbers too. Even people high on CMM don't expect him to be able to single-handedly drive the offensive.

And you're not suggesting CMM for Tuch 1 for 1. You're suggesting CMM+ valuable futures for Tuch.

(Who, again, is not going to be traded.)

 

[Calicaps]

I remain amazed by the total write-off of Lappy around here. Sure he struggled this year. But based on Carbs' comments, the organization is still aiming for him to be a Capital. Obviously if there's a trade to be made, anyone can be available, but I don't think the front office views him as a bust/AHL lifer.

 

[wickedwitch]

I’d rather do CMM for JT MIiller.

Tuch is nothing special outside of his career year.

There's 0% chance they trade for someone with known locker room issues who might screw with locker room chemistry.

 

[HTFN]

I remain amazed by the total write-off of Lappy around here. Sure he struggled this year. But based on Carbs' comments, the organization is still aiming for him to be a Capital. (Obviously if there's a trade to be made, anyone can be available, but I don't think the front office views him as a bust/AHL lifer.

we're a mercurial bunch when it comes to prospects in general, I can't explain that either

 

[Ridley Simon]

Nobody is as good as they are when they're hot or as bad as they are when they're cold. 40 points for CMM would still be an improvement over last season -- and that's at his worst. So he's a) still improving and b) at his worst is a .5 point/game player. Plus, he's very good defensively (and improving in that too).

Also, everybody but PLD went cold offensively and this is a team sport. When other players go cold, it's going to hurt CMM's numbers too. Even people high on CMM don't expect him to be able to single-handedly drive the offensive.

And you're not suggesting CMM for Tuch 1 for 1. You're suggesting CMM+ valuable futures for Tuch.

(Who, again, is not going to be traded.)

ONE valuable future. “Lesser” prospects get traded all the time. Come on.

And I do agree that Tuch *probably* won’t get traded. Which by itself says something about the player. This is not a Cammalleri or a Monaghan that gets traded every 18mo.

Anyway. We’d be foolish to not trade CMM and our 25 first for Alex Tuch (yes, plus a flier type prospect).

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

There's 0% chance they trade for someone with known locker room issues who might screw with locker room chemistry.

Yeah big pass on the tumor that is JT Miller.

 

[um]

JT Miller makes 8m a year for this year and 3more. How would that work, exactly? Retention? How much would be have to add, to get that?

Not being a dick, I just don’t see a player of that contract being added. We don’t have the space (unless we dump Mangiapane and others).

CMM (2.4M) + Mangiapane (5.8M)

 

[um]

There's 0% chance they trade for someone with known locker room issues who might screw with locker room chemistry.

We just did this with PLD.

 

[Ridley Simon]

CMM (2.4M) + Mangiapane (5.8m)

I think CMM is 2.1m, but point taken.

That’s a risky deal though. Leaves us one short of a fill lineup (we are worried about the 3rd line “holes”, as it is), and Miller is a douche.

So there are those parts

 

[g00n]

I am worried about scoring in the playoffs. Candidly. They have regressed towards the mean with their shooting %, and surprise!, their scoring is way down.

CMM and Strome in particular are going backwards. Protas and PLD seem to be steady, as does Chyrchrun.

Anyway, most know my feelings

I'm always worried about them scoring in the playoffs because they habitually fail at that, but the one time they really stepped up it wasn't because of TDL acquisitions it was because guys already on the team stepped up and outplayed their contracts.

I think that's leadership in the locker room (not going to be f***ing suck this year) and just general chemistry.

 

[wickedwitch]

We just did this with PLD.

PLD's issues were on ice. And doing a trade over the summer is very different than in season. Plus, the Caps (at the time) would probably have thought they were not going to be the top team in the league, so a high-risk/high-reward trade made more sense. Doing a high-risk/high-reward trade in season for the team with the best record (especially when that risk is locker room chemistry) makes no sense.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I'm always worried about them scoring in the playoffs because they habitually fail at that, but the one time they really stepped up it wasn't because of TDL acquisitions it was because guys already on the team stepped up and outplayed their contracts.

I think that's leadership in the locker room (not going to be f***ing suck this year) and just general chemistry.

Yeah maybe.

 

[kicksavedave]

but the one time they really stepped up it wasn't because of TDL acquisitions it was because guys already on the team stepped up and outplayed their contracts.

I think that's leadership in the locker room (not going to be f***ing suck this year) and just general chemistry.

This, plus a dash of cocaine too maybe?

 

[um]

I think CMM is 2.1m, but point taken.

That’s a risky deal though. Leaves us one short of a fill lineup (we are worried about the 3rd line “holes”, as it is), and Miller is a douche.

So there are those parts

It depends on how we feel about the reportings on JT Miller. I can't tell what's real or not, and I know the Canadian media likes to stir shit up. I know it worked out for the Pens when they took on the cancer called Phil Kessel.

If the reports of Miller are exaggerated he would immediately be the best forward on our team on a great contract.

 

[wickedwitch]

It depends on how we feel about the reportings on JT Miller. I can't tell what's real or not, and I know the Canadian media likes to stir shit up. I know it worked out for the Pens when they took on the cancer called Phil Kessel.

If the reports of Miller are exaggerated he would immediately be the best forward on our team on a great contract.

It's not just the media. A former teammate recently said he thought Miller was too hard on EP. Boudreau has also confirmed it.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Holy Hyberbole brother. Who said 3 1sts? Anywhere?

I get that CMM WAS a first. But that’s ancient history. So was Vrana. Is he still considered “trading a first”? (As was LuJo, and Lapierre, and Samsonov, etc etc etc).

CMM had a GREAT first 16 games. 20pts. That awesome. Seriously.

However, since? He’s been a sub 40pt scorer over his past 28 games. 28! He was a 33pt scorer last year. So 33 to 38pts (his last 28games) makes sense to me. OBV he’s gets some hot pants on occasionally — hence his first 16g, when our entire roster was crushing it (his dip coincides w Ovy’s injury…. hmmmm….food for thought).

But he’s back to who he was. A solid 3rd line player, maybe able to elevate to the 2nd line where needed. But people calling him a 60pt scorer are going to be very disappointed. I hope he hits 50+. Even with his Hot Pant start.

Tuch is so much better than him. Look at his numbers. Just look. Total points AND goals.

A late first this year and a prospect like Sudz or Hofer or Rybinski isn’t going to hurt the teams future.

We can agree to disagree.

Yes, I consider people saying we should trade CMM and other recent prospects (2-3 years ago, at most) as first round picks. And you’re creating a strawman — are you really comparing first round picks from 2013, 2015, and 2017 — to prospects drafted in the past few years, all of whom have met or surpassed their D+x years expectations?

A late first + C prospect isn’t going to get you Tuch if he’s as good as you say he is. And Tuch is a good player but he’s not a great player. He’s average defensively and he’s topped 50 points twice in his career. His performance has also been trending downwards the last two seasons. And again, Buffalo is not trading their assistant captain for a late first and a nothing prospect. It’s not happening. If you want to talk points, who is he displacing in our lineup so he’ll get RW1 and PP1 time? Usage and context matter as they relate to points and his usage wouldn’t be anything close here to what it was in Buffalo.

I like Tuch as a player and he’s got a great cap hit but he’s clearly a rental and he’s a rental at a position that the Caps have the most organizational depth in. It doesn’t make sense to push your chips in for a RW.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

I doubt the Rangers would trade with us midseason. But they have some players I would trade for. They could be the deadline wildcard.

New York Rangers Salary Cap, Cap Hit, New York Rangers Contracts | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

I could be talked into any of their top forwards for the right price.

 

[Misery74]

Yes, I consider people saying we should trade CMM and other recent prospects (2-3 years ago, at most) as first round picks. And you’re creating a strawman — are you really comparing first round picks from 2013, 2015, and 2017 — to prospects drafted in the past few years, all of whom have met or surpassed their D+x years expectations?

A late first + C prospect isn’t going to get you Tuch if he’s as good as you say he is. And Tuch is a good player but he’s not a great player. He’s average defensively and he’s topped 50 points twice in his career. His performance has also been trending downwards the last two seasons. And again, Buffalo is not trading their assistant captain for a late first and a nothing prospect. It’s not happening. If you want to talk points, who is he displacing in our lineup so he’ll get RW1 and PP1 time? Usage and context matter as they relate to points and his usage wouldn’t be anything close here to what it was in Buffalo.

I like Tuch as a player and he’s got a great cap hit but he’s clearly a rental and he’s a rental at a position that the Caps have the most organizational depth in. It doesn’t make sense to push your chips in for a RW.

Alex Tuch and is under contract for one more year.

Not for or against. But not a rental either.