Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines/etc) | 2023-24 Regular Season Edition

[Kazer]

One side of the Caps fanbase

The Cool Kids Table - lets make splashes this team has some fight in them, we see the young guys we do have are progressing, now add to it and rebuild on the fly like the Rangers have done.

Other Side

Tighty Whitey Wearers- Lets be suck, draft in the 8th-14th spot for the next 5 years and hope that in 10 years we make the playoffs. Untuck your shirt from your tighty whities guys come on....

Caps could just an easily become a team that's good enough to regularly make the playoffs and lose in the first round with no real shot at a cup. That's still purgatory. I appreciate the concept, but there's no sense in pretending that both approaches do not have a similar risk profile.

The approach only works if the right guys (Zegras/Sandin) are available. Otherwise, you're just re-arranging the deck chairs AND giving away major draft capital to do so.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Caps could just an easily become a team that's good enough to regularly make the playoffs and lose in the first round with no real shot at a cup. That's still purgatory. I appreciate the concept, but there's no sense in pretending that both approaches do not have a similar risk profile.

The approach only works if the right guys (Zegras/Sandin) are available. Otherwise, you're just re-arranging the deck chairs AND giving away major draft capital to do so.

You mean like almost every season of the Ovechkin era? We have only made it past the 2nd round once and that was 2018.

 

[stephenball]

I think it’s worth kicking the tires on Zegras. The team desperately needs offensive talent.

 

[MrGone]

I think it’s worth kicking the tires on Zegras. The team desperately needs offensive talent.

And its rare a move made out of desperation is a good one.

 

[Raikkonen]

If you cant get a guy like Lindholm then you have to use Strome-Lapierre as top-6 centers and CMM as 3rd.

That's not the end of the world for next season and then there will be a clearer picture for each one of them and a lot more money available.

Protas - I'd use him as W for the time being and C in a pinch if necessary, not making him 4C permanently. He could be a part of the effective line, from 1st to 3rd.

Dowd - I'd trade him if there is a taker. Dude is getting older fast enough. There is no future for him here, trade him for a team in win now mode.

Lindgren - I bet he regresses before Caps are going to compete seriously again, so sell him if there is a good opportunity. You can use DK and a young goalie next season. That won't be much worse for the season but should be better for the future.

Carlson - I doubt he'd want to move. So he's staying.

Jensen or TVR could be moved, but are there any takers? TVR did a lot of good, low maintenance guy, Id keep him. But they need someone to play PP2 instead of TVR, ofc.

Never overly liked Sandin... but he will stay obviously. AA deserves another season probably.

There is obviously a space to bring in new talented D. But it should be real top-4 D if so.

Wingers... GMBM will do something on that front too. Won't make any guesses. Sign Manta back ffs

 

[stephenball]

And its rare a move made out of desperation is a good one.

Generally yes, but this isn’t the desperation of trading Forsberg for Erat. Zegras is 23 years old and already has had two 60+ point seasons playing on an Anaheim team that had the fourth worst offense over those two seasons. That’s proven capability to drive offense, and would likely be for years to come.

I said kick the tires because I’m not saying break the absolute bank for him. I’m saying see what potential deal there could be.

 

[Raikkonen]

Also

Ovie is done as playoff performer obviously. no motor for that

And Wilson isn't looking like a player who can help them win the cup either, he will be too old for that soon enough

Id still entertain trading Tom

 

[HandsomeTom43]

If you can get Zegras for our first a little add to it you do it. That being said I don’t know what the asking price for Zegras is, but it seems to me the best use of our 1st this year is a similar trade to the Sandin deal if it can be found.

 

[usiel]

One side of the Caps fanbase

The Cool Kids Table - lets make splashes this team has some fight in them, we see the young guys we do have are progressing, now add to it and rebuild on the fly like the Rangers have done.

Other Side

Tighty Whitey Wearers- Lets be suck, draft in the 8th-14th spot for the next 5 years and hope that in 10 years we make the playoffs. Untuck your shirt from your tighty whities guys come on....

As a 34 year NHL watcher I appreciate the naivete (and its good to have that around here) but practically its about an impossible task to navigate that razor edge.

Also drafting 8-14th is not a rebuild. Thats doing what they did this season even slightly over achieving and getting in because the competing teams just sucked slightly more.

 

[Langway]

I'd tend to keep the first, even if someone from that top 13 group doesn't slide, in part because I'm not fully sold on many of the younger forwards completely panning out aside from Leonard. Others will be added and some are bound to be swapped out. Nonetheless...

For Zegras? Sure but for a more pedestrian type that's more hope than proven (like a Kaliyev) it's too rich a price. I'd do it for Chychrun as well. They need proven quality rather than a token scratch-off ticket that hasn't managed to establish themselves as consistent top 6/top 4. (I'd perhaps make an exception for a developing prospect yet to play NHL games but that's a rare opportunity.)

Maybe they could get someone like Marchenko for that pick that's somewhat established and due a raise. But they need such a mobility/tenacity/energy upgrade that I'd hesitate to be aggressive--at least in terms of future assets--merely to upgrade the wings. Better to use that ammo on more foundational positions, barring few exceptions. They need to be highly selective if these next few years are going to be more than a continuation of sort of isolated piecemeal value plays that don't particularly add up to a coherent team identity.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Why do we like Zegras so much on this board? Hes done the Michigan move a few times, But the Ducks dont want him and im not sure he can play D or do anything more then high level pick up moves here and there.

He did play with Sonny on the Ducks and they pulled off that trick play once.

If the Ducks go dumb and start giving away good players like we got in Strome and Sonny, Yes we need to jump. But i would not sell the house at this point for Zegras

 

[usiel]

I'm with Langs probably too rich a price to the current prospect pool that is still not where it needs to be.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Should Oshie come back next year?

Should he? No.

Will he? Yes.

 

[Lou Sassole]

some evening boredom had me wandering through some UFA options.

by division:

Atlantic:
DeBrusk BOS - eh
Olofsson BUF - nah
Kane DET - maybe?
Sprong DET - another round?
Reinhart FLA - meh, not a fan of paying for a career year
Stamkos TBL - old
Duclair TBL - possibly
Bertuzzi TOR - eh
If either Marner or B. Tkachuk shake loose they'd be targets

Metro:
Teravainen CAR - possibly
Guentzel CAR - maybe too expensive
Wennberg NYR - meh
Trade market could see Konecny, maybe Laine as a reclamation project

Central:
Pavelski/Duchene DAL - probably not leaving team, old
Beauvillier NSH - meh
Vrana STL - bridge probably burned
Toffoli WPG - possibly
Trade market rumors with Kyrou, maybe Colton from Col could be salary dump, Arizona probably not moving players now they're in Utah

Pacific:
Henrique EDM - old
Arvidsson LAK - possibly
Lindholm VAN - possibly, more center than winger
Marchessault VGK - old
Mantha VGK - polarizing
Trade market Zegras a name but doubtful, Mangiapane/Kuzmenko from Calgary short-term, Boeser/Garland from Vancouver from their salary cap issues

UFA forward market at the top end looks like Reinhart, Teravainen, Guentzel, Lindholm; second tier Kane, Stamkos, Bertuzzi, Marchessault

Duclair maybe too much of a rich man's Milano to fit, Arvidsson contract might be depressed by his injury but could be option, Teravainen seems a good fit if he wasn't Finnish. Doubt either Pavelski or Duchene have any interest coming East. Winger options from Calgary/Vancouver could be short-term fix.

Reinhart has more of a track record than I thought, but he's much more of an Oshie-type - best as your 3rd or 4th best forward, not your 1st or 2nd best. Paying him Oshie money in this cap environment is like 7mil a year, Nylander high-end comparable at 11.5, Timo Meier lower-end at 8.8. I wouldn't want to have his cap hit exceed Ovechkin's at 9.5.

We have room for UFAs this offseason, but after next year is the big reset - ~19mil in expirings next year in Backstrom, Oshie, and Kuznetsov's retention and nobody beyond Lapierre and McMichael with any sort of contract/raise. We'd have to punt on this offseason, but we could honestly sign both Marner and Draisaitl to full-market deals with all the space available after 24-25, while filling out the team.

Domi is also a UFA. He's got the skill/sandpaper mix i like that shouldn't be too expensive, depending on how the playoffs go.

 

[usiel]

Should he? No.

Will he? Yes.

How many kids does he have? Check...coming back.

 

[alphabetical]

How many kids does he have? Check...coming back.

He's been paid about 70 million dollars over his career. There's no way an extra 5 will make any difference.

 

[BondraEra]

Zegras discussion seems odd. I don’t get the feeling he’s all that available.

 

[bacchist]

He's been paid about 70 million dollars over his career. There's no way an extra 5 will make any difference.

I'm not sure you know what dollars are...

 

[DWGie26]

You mean like almost every season of the Ovechkin era? We have only made it past the 2nd round once and that was 2018.

This is kind of the point. In order to get OV, Backstrom, Carlson, etc, we traded away Bondra, Kolzig, Kono and completely tanked. Hit on our picks. And while it led to many high performance seasons only one Cup. Point is, tanking for picks and purposely hitting bottom doesn’t guarantee a cup (or success).

We have 2 more OV years and he wants to win. That was Ted’s promise, to be competitive. In a short period we have built assets and have cap space… first time in 15 years. Hell yeah I’m for adding a couple of top line players NOW.

 

[alphabetical]

I'm not sure you know what dollars are...

I don't think you understand how big a number 70 million is.

 

[usiel]

He's been paid about 70 million dollars over his career. There's no way an extra 5 will make any difference.

I hear ya it all depends on taking care of business. Smoken All talking with Chimera before the Edmonton game this season Al actually asked what Chimmer was doing these days and basically not working just taking his kids to whatever things, heh. Not denigrating that but for a job that takes a lot of attention through at least the 30s a good balance.

 

[alphabetical]

I hear ya it all depends on taking care of business. Smoken All talking with Chimera before the Edmonton game this season Al actually asked what Chimmer was doing these days and basically not working just taking his kids to whatever things, heh. Not denigrating that but for a job that takes a lot of attention through at least the 30s a good balance.

And Chimera only made about 20 million over his career compared to oshie's 70 million. Early retirement is really easy when you're worth millions like chimera or tens of millions like oshie.

 

[OV Rocks]

As a 34 year NHL watcher I appreciate the naivete (and its good to have that around here) but practically its about an impossible task to navigate that razor edge.

Also drafting 8-14th is not a rebuild. Thats doing what they did this season even slightly over achieving and getting in because the competing teams just sucked slightly more.

Cool - I am 29.

Yeah you are right, it isn't a rebuild it is worse, it is what leads to being Buffalo, Ottawa, Detroit, San Jose, or Philadelphia. Going on a decade or more of missed playoffs for some of those teams. It is a really frustrating question to ask - why are you ok being in no mans land? That is such a loser mentality. I don't think bottoming out is the right answer but it is a damn better direction than being stuck in the middle.

When has the bottoming out strategy worked for anybody? Crosby and the Penguins maybe? When has a team hit rock bottom, gotten the first pick, and won a cup in the first 5 years of the player - in recent memory no boomer references please?

The Caps have young pieces, the Caps made the playoffs with a historically bad ability to do what is the most important thing in the game of hockey and that is score. ADD to that and this team goes from being a good story to being a team that, hey if the Caps get hot and watch out they could go on a run. That is a huge difference compared to lets put our balls between our legs and look at us we are a funny story at -37

I am on record saying McMichael is our best tradable player, but if we don't trade him can you see a world where he gets 25 goals next year, yeah I can. Lapierre is bound to double or more his goal input, could he be a 20 goal guy next year, yeah why not. Can Sandin have 35 assists - yeah of course. Could Miro have 15 goals - why not? We can see continued pathways to growth on the young guys which means in theory this team can get better. Yes Ovi can regress goaltending can be a shell of itself, players don't improve I get that.


Even with all of that it isn't enough to change the mindset of our own fans that if you ADD to this team a 40 goal scorer heck maybe even 2 of those guys, younger guys stay in the lineup but in more appropriate roles, watch out.

Untuck Your Shirt From Your Tighty Whities @usiel

Oh Edited Point - You think Leonsis is fine with being in no mans land and not selling out his building like he did this year, yeah that ain't happening for a prolonged period of time.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Just for fun: Mitch Marner for Tom Wilson. Wilson goes home and Toronto gets beefier for the playoffs (with cost certainty thanks to Wilson’s extension) while Washington gets a top line forward and they are one of few teams who have the cap structure to extend Marner. Marner instantly becomes the Caps best forward.

 

[Hivemind]

When has the bottoming out strategy worked for anybody? Crosby and the Penguins maybe? When has a team hit rock bottom, gotten the first pick, and won a cup in the first 5 years of the player - in recent memory no boomer references please?

As you mentioned, Pittsburgh drafted Crosby 1st overall in 2005 and then won the Cup in 2009 (plus 2016 & 2017).
Chicago drafted Patrick Kane 1st overall in 2007 - then won the Cup in 2010, 2012, & 2013.
If you're willing to also accept 2nd overall picks, the Los Angeles Kings drafted Drew Doughty 2nd overall in 2008 and won the Cup in 2012 & 2014.
Tampa Bay had to wait longer than 5 years, but drafting Stamkos (1st overall) and Hedman (2nd overall) were key foundational pieces in their 2020 & 2021 Cups.