Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

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Acallabeth

Post approved by Ovechkin
Jul 30, 2011
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You honestly think Ovechkin being a little more physical at times or hustling a bit more here and there is going to make up for the deficiencies of all the other veterans severely underplaying their paychecks?
I'm not going to revive the stupid main board idea that Ovechkin is a poor leader, or suggest than our best scorer should also develop a great defensive game at 37, but a bit more hustle here and there from a couple or two of our top paid players could possibly help create a culture when the aformentioned top paid players' effort isn't systematically questioned.
Totally. I guess my point is that they should be open to moving popular players if need be.
A season like this again, and there will be fewer popular players anyway kekeke
 
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YippieKaey

How you gonna do hockey like that?
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I'm not going to revive the stupid main board idea that Ovechkin is a poor leader, or suggest than our best scorer should also develop a great defensive game at 37, but a bit more hustle here and there from a couple or two of our top paid players could possibly help create a culture when the aformentioned top paid players' effort isn't systematically questioned.

A season like this again, and there will be fewer popular players anyway kekeke

Our top paid players are all 30+, with most being 34-37 years old. And i would argue that Oshie and Ovi are amongst the hardest workers, but they work hard on offense and other stuff since they are wingers and are supposed to be the most offensively oriented players on the team.

When Hagelin and Craig Smith become 40+ goal scoring .ppg wingers then Ovi and Oshie can focus more on defense.
 

Roshi

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Feb 7, 2013
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23-24 couch GM edition

Ovechkin-Strome-Wilson
LW1-C2-Oshie
Milano-Backstrom-Brown @2,75
Protas-Dowd-NAK
Snively @ 0,8

LD1-Carlson
Sandin-Jensen
Fehervary @ 1,75 - TvR @ 1,75
Alexeeyev @0,9


Kuemper
Lindgren

67,6 / 83,5 m
Avaivable cap 15,9

Possible repcalement for Mantha via free agency;

Tyler Bertuzzi (more term and money that we would like)
James van Riemsdyk (old, but might take a reasonable contract to play with Trevor)
Alex Killorn (old)
Max Domi (meh)
Connor Sheary (meh)

via trade

Jesper Bratt RFA (around 7+)
Brandon Saad (4,5)
Joel Farabee (5)
Victor Olofsson (nah)
Alex Newhook cheapish RFA

Possible replacement for Kuznetsov via free agency;

Ryan O'Reilly (expensive? lots of competition)

via trade

Kevin Hayes (7,1m)
Pierre-Luc Dubois RFA (likely expensive and always unhappy)

Possible targets for LD via free agency;

Dmitry Orlov (long term big money)
Ryan Graves
Vladislav Gavrikov (more term more money than we would want)
Carson Soucy (lot of competition)
Erik Gustafsson (meh)

via trade

Sam Girard (5m)
Bowen Byram RFA
Joel Edmundson (3,5m)
Ivan Provorov (6,25m)

Suggestion 1;
Mantha + COL 2nd 25 + ? for Kevin Hayes
Kuznetsov for Sam Girard & Alex Newhook
RFa Newhook @2

Ovechkin-Strome-Wilson
Newhook-Hayes-Oshie
Milano-Backstrom-Brown
Protas-Dowd-NAK
Snively

Fehervary-Carlson
Sandin-Jensen
Girard - TvR
Alexeeyev

Suggestion 2, pipe dream;
Kuznetsov + for Bowen Byram --> RFA bridge Byram @4
Mantha ++ for Joel Farabee
Sign ROR 8x6,9 (2027 LTIR bound)

Ovechkin-ROR-Wilson
Farabee-Strome-Oshie
Milano-Backstrom-Brown
Protas-Dowd-NAK
Snively

Byram-Carlson
Sandin-Jensen
Fehervary-TvR
Alexeeyev

Realistic;
Mantha + for nothing
Sign JvR @ 4,5m
COL 2nd 25 + CMM overpayment for Joel Edmundson

Ovechkin-Strome-Wilson
Milano-Kuznetsov-Oshie
JvR-Backstrom-Brown
Protas-Dowd-NAK
Snively

Fehervary-Carlson
Sandin-Jensen
Edmundson-TvR
Alexeeyev
 

trick9

Registered User
Jun 2, 2013
12,587
5,748
23-24 couch GM edition

Ovechkin-Strome-Wilson
LW1-C2-Oshie
Milano-Backstrom-Brown @2,75
Protas-Dowd-NAK
Snively @ 0,8

LD1-Carlson
Sandin-Jensen
Fehervary @ 1,75 - TvR @ 1,75
Alexeeyev @0,9


Kuemper
Lindgren

67,6 / 83,5 m
Avaivable cap 15,9

Possible repcalement for Mantha via free agency;

Tyler Bertuzzi (more term and money that we would like)
James van Riemsdyk (old, but might take a reasonable contract to play with Trevor)
Alex Killorn (old)
Max Domi (meh)
Connor Sheary (meh)

via trade

Jesper Bratt RFA (around 7+)
Brandon Saad (4,5)
Joel Farabee (5)
Victor Olofsson (nah)
Alex Newhook cheapish RFA

Possible replacement for Kuznetsov via free agency;

Ryan O'Reilly (expensive? lots of competition)

via trade

Kevin Hayes (7,1m)
Pierre-Luc Dubois RFA (likely expensive and always unhappy)

Possible targets for LD via free agency;

Dmitry Orlov (long term big money)
Ryan Graves
Vladislav Gavrikov (more term more money than we would want)
Carson Soucy (lot of competition)
Erik Gustafsson (meh)

via trade

Sam Girard (5m)
Bowen Byram RFA
Joel Edmundson (3,5m)
Ivan Provorov (6,25m)

Suggestion 1;
Mantha + COL 2nd 25 + ? for Kevin Hayes
Kuznetsov for Sam Girard & Alex Newhook
RFa Newhook @2

Ovechkin-Strome-Wilson
Newhook-Hayes-Oshie
Milano-Backstrom-Brown
Protas-Dowd-NAK
Snively

Fehervary-Carlson
Sandin-Jensen
Girard - TvR
Alexeeyev

Suggestion 2, pipe dream;
Kuznetsov + for Bowen Byram --> RFA bridge Byram @4
Mantha ++ for Joel Farabee
Sign ROR 8x6,9 (2027 LTIR bound)

Ovechkin-ROR-Wilson
Farabee-Strome-Oshie
Milano-Backstrom-Brown
Protas-Dowd-NAK
Snively

Byram-Carlson
Sandin-Jensen
Fehervary-TvR
Alexeeyev

Realistic;
Mantha + for nothing
Sign JvR @ 4,5m
COL 2nd 25 + CMM overpayment for Joel Edmundson

Ovechkin-Strome-Wilson
Milano-Kuznetsov-Oshie
JvR-Backstrom-Brown
Protas-Dowd-NAK
Snively

Fehervary-Carlson
Sandin-Jensen
Edmundson-TvR
Alexeeyev
I don't really like these 'improvements' if you can call these improvements.

Conor Sheary has 31 points this season. JvR has 23 points. Why would we be paying 4,5 million to downgrade in that position? I think most here would be willing to walk away from Sheary @ 2 million. Do you want to pay twice as much for worse player because his brother plays here?

Our problems mostly this season: Old guys being constantly hurt.
Solution > Acquire half-retired Joel Edmundson, ridiculously overpay for often-injured JvR and acquire one of the worst contracts in the NHL in Kevin Hayes. He has scored 31 points in each of the last 2 seasons, is signed longer than Kuznetsov and has been healthy scratch this season because of lack of effort. If we want to dump Kuznetsov at any cost i wouldn't mind that Girard + Newhook -package but Sam Girard is signed for eternity and he's also made of glass so not sure that's the ideal target for me.
 
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Roshi

Registered User
Feb 7, 2013
2,081
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Finland
I don't really like these 'improvements' if you can call these improvements.

Conor Sheary has 31 points this season. JvR has 23 points. Why would we be paying 4,5 million to downgrade in that position? I think most here would be willing to walk away from Sheary @ 2 million. Do you want to pay twice as much for worse player because his brother plays here?

Our problems mostly this season: Old guys being constantly hurt.
Solution > Acquire half-retired Joel Edmundson, ridiculously overpay for often-injured JvR and acquire one of the worst contracts in the NHL in Kevin Hayes. He has scored 31 points in each of the last 2 seasons, is signed longer than Kuznetsov and has been healthy scratch this season because of lack of effort. If we want to dump Kuznetsov at any cost i wouldn't mind that Girard + Newhook -package but Sam Girard is signed for eternity and he's also made of glass so not sure that's the ideal target for me.

I agree. jvr+edmundson was the pessimistic-realistic version :)
 

Caps8112

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Aug 12, 2008
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wasnt for a rebuild but they started picking the scab at the deadline. Rather them dump Mantha anyway possible even if they take a loss (despise his existence on the team), kick the tires on moving Kuzy/Carlson. Things like that. A retool isnt going to do much but maybe deceive Ovi that they are trying to stay to competitive. They are right back where they were before the Niskanen/Orpik signing. They kind of sorta have the beginnings of a competent D with Sandin, Fever and some unknowns but they need two dmen in the above mentioned category of ready to play and contribute.
 

twabby

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Mar 9, 2010
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Nick Schmaltz, Coyotes

So here’s a 27-year-old center, averaging close to a point per game over the past two seasons on a cellar-dwelling team, at a $5.85 million cap hit. And the Coyotes, despite their best efforts, weren’t able to move him ahead of the trade deadline.

Why?

Some teams weren’t fond of a back-loaded contract that has $24.45 million total left on its final three years, starting next season. The AAV is $5.85 million, but the cash is an average of $8.15 million per year after this one. That being a problem is a reminder of how some NHL owners are still smarting from the pandemic. Cash is king.

What this situation needs is a deep-pocketed team that likes the player and the cap hit to swoop in come June in a value trade with a franchise feeling financial pressure to cut payroll.

(He’s more of a RW than a center now)

I really wish Schmaltz was a few years younger because he’s probably exiting his prime now and I’d hate for Washington to get him on his decline. Still to put up those types of numbers and impacts consistently in Arizona is impressive. Definitely a guy Washington should look at closely this offseason. 2.37 points per 60 at 5v5 the past 3 seasons puts him at #37 in the NHL over that time period. And given the above quote from LeBrun I think he could be had for a bargain.

Nikolaj Ehlers is another interesting trade candidate. I’m not sure I like him as much as Schmaltz because while he scores at a slightly higher clip he has a more concerning injury history and he’s one of the league’s worst defensive forwards. He has very similar impacts to Jakub Vrana before Vrana left DC. He’s worth considering but he wouldn’t be ideal.
 
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pman25

Registered User
Aug 29, 2009
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Could Schmaltz be had for the equivalent of the Bjorkstrand trade last year? Pure dump? A couple picks?

Mantha + a 2025 2nd for Schmaltz
 

AlexModvechkin8

At least there was 2018.
Sponsor
Feb 18, 2012
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Could Schmaltz be had for the equivalent of the Bjorkstrand trade last year? Pure dump? A couple picks?

Mantha + a 2025 2nd for Schmaltz
The problem with Mantha is the cash owed to him is about 10% higher than his cap hit. His salary is $6.5M next season while his cap hit is $5.75M so this is actually a bad financial deal for a team like Arizona trying to get to the cap floor while keeping actual cash expenses low.
 

pman25

Registered User
Aug 29, 2009
4,835
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Richmond
The problem with Mantha is the cash owed to him is about 10% higher than his cap hit. His salary is $6.5M next season while his cap hit is $5.75M so this is actually a bad financial deal for a team like Arizona trying to get to the cap floor while keeping actual cash expenses low.
Probably so but the upside is they ditch Schmaltz and the $24 million he is owed for the next three years so they still save a boatload of cash
 
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crazy8888

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Sep 8, 2010
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Brooklyn NY
wasnt for a rebuild but they started picking the scab at the deadline. Rather them dump Mantha anyway possible even if they take a loss (despise his existence on the team), kick the tires on moving Kuzy/Carlson. Things like that. A retool isnt going to do much but maybe deceive Ovi that they are trying to stay to competitive. They are right back where they were before the Niskanen/Orpik signing. They kind of sorta have the beginnings of a competent D with Sandin, Fever and some unknowns but they need two dmen in the above mentioned category of ready to play and contribute.
I could not agree more. Except i dont think they make any moves with sole purpose of pulling wool over Ovi's eyes. I do believe that they are trying to stay competitive and the whole notion that all the organization cares about is getting Ovi to 895 sounds very silly to me. Obviously this record is a one in a lifetime opportunity for him and the organization but at the same time i dont see the correlation between tanking and the record. In fact wouldin't a competitive team give Ovi a better chance at getting to 895 than playing on a bottom feeder? Sorry i digress.
Its funny, GMBM recently said how odd it felt to be selling because they are used to making a push every year and yet last year he didint really do anything either to help them down the sterch. Nothing impactful anyway. So thats two years in a row that management does nothing to help the team compete for the cup. Two years waisted. I hope that they do reload in the summer and use things picks and their own picks to try and build a good team. I just hope they do not continue to be as frugal as they have been the past few years.

As far as priorities go i think that getting rid of Mantha at any cost possible is priority number one. Beyond that i will piggy back off from your post and suggest they them a new Orpik and Niskannen at the deadline. That would be nice.
 

twabby

Registered User
Mar 9, 2010
14,165
15,701
Exactly….simple math…

While the long-term math is simple I’d rather not include Mantha in a deal to Arizona if another team would view Mantha in a more positive (or at least a less negative) light. Arizona will have other opportunities to sell Schmaltz and other ways to get to the cap floor.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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While the long-term math is simple I’d rather not include Mantha in a deal to Arizona if another team would view Mantha in a more positive (or at least a less negative) light)
Well sure….you make sure to maximize your assets.…if someone else is willing to pay more than “free to good home”….go for it.
 

Corby78

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Jan 14, 2014
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I could not agree more. Except i dont think they make any moves with sole purpose of pulling wool over Ovi's eyes. I do believe that they are trying to stay competitive and the whole notion that all the organization cares about is getting Ovi to 895 sounds very silly to me. Obviously this record is a one in a lifetime opportunity for him and the organization but at the same time i dont see the correlation between tanking and the record. In fact wouldin't a competitive team give Ovi a better chance at getting to 895 than playing on a bottom feeder? Sorry i digress.
Its funny, GMBM recently said how odd it felt to be selling because they are used to making a push every year and yet last year he didint really do anything either to help them down the sterch. Nothing impactful anyway. So thats two years in a row that management does nothing to help the team compete for the cup. Two years waisted. I hope that they do reload in the summer and use things picks and their own picks to try and build a good team. I just hope they do not continue to be as frugal as they have been the past few years.

As far as priorities go i think that getting rid of Mantha at any cost possible is priority number one. Beyond that i will piggy back off from your post and suggest they them a new Orpik and Niskannen at the deadline. That would be nice.
Two years they did nothing? All the way till a couple weeks ago, every decision they made was based off winning today. They did everything, even last off season to keep the team afloat. Lose brown out the gate, Wilson/Carlson out large quantities, Kuzy going back to bad Kuzy. Mantha not taking advantage of a second chance. The players/Coaches underperformed along with injuries sank the ship.

I’m not saying GMBM has been perfect, but I wouldn’t say he hasn’t done anything but waste the last two years.
 
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Caps8112

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I could not agree more. Except i dont think they make any moves with sole purpose of pulling wool over Ovi's eyes. I do believe that they are trying to stay competitive and the whole notion that all the organization cares about is getting Ovi to 895 sounds very silly to me. Obviously this record is a one in a lifetime opportunity for him and the organization but at the same time i dont see the correlation between tanking and the record. In fact wouldin't a competitive team give Ovi a better chance at getting to 895 than playing on a bottom feeder? Sorry i digress.
Its funny, GMBM recently said how odd it felt to be selling because they are used to making a push every year and yet last year he didint really do anything either to help them down the sterch. Nothing impactful anyway. So thats two years in a row that management does nothing to help the team compete for the cup. Two years waisted. I hope that they do reload in the summer and use things picks and their own picks to try and build a good team. I just hope they do not continue to be as frugal as they have been the past few years.

As far as priorities go i think that getting rid of Mantha at any cost possible is priority number one. Beyond that i will piggy back off from your post and suggest they them a new Orpik and Niskannen at the deadline. That would be nice.
all for exiling him to the wall in arizona but being a caps fan I fully expect the caps to be the first team to somehow get in trouble for dumping terrible/ dead contracts on the coyotes. It would be excellent punishment for sucking as bad as he has. It would be one thing if the effort was there but he looks as tho he is forced to play the game not paid
 
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crazy8888

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Two years they did nothing? All the way till a couple weeks ago, every decision they made was based off winning today. They did everything, even last off season to keep the team afloat. Lose brown out the gate, Wilson/Carlson out large quantities, Kuzy going back to bad Kuzy. Mantha not taking advantage of a second chance. The players/Coaches underperformed along with injuries sank the ship.

I’m not saying GMBM has been perfect, but I wouldn’t say he hasn’t done anything but waste the last two years.
What did they do last TDL? They added Johansson and Larsson (who is not even in NHL anymore) You call that signifcant additions? GM sat there and talked about how he didint feel the team had championship pedigree and they did nothing to help them down the stretch even though they were comfortably in a playoff position. How is that not waisting a year? This year i understand its a different situation but still. They were and are still within 2-6 points of playoff spot with what 15 games left. Other teams close in the standings are going for it (Buffalo, Ottawa, Islanders, Florida) and all fighting for PO'S and we gave up with so much time left. Maybe if Caps didint have to play with Irvin and Mclarth pairing they could get a couple more points and be closer in the standings. But instead they will be stuck in this mediocrity just so that they can pick what 15-10 at best. Not like they getting top 3 pick this year. So i dont know to me this year feels waisted as well.
 

crazy8888

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Sep 8, 2010
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Brooklyn NY
all for exiling him to the wall in arizona but being a caps fan I fully expect the caps to be the first team to somehow get in trouble for dumping terrible/ dead contracts on the coyotes. It would be excellent punishment for sucking as bad as he has. It would be one thing if the effort was there but he looks as tho he is forced to play the game not paid
Well to be fair Arizona usually prefers those injured players contracts, you know they pay them to get to the cap floor but never really see them on the ice. With Manthan they will get a player that still laces them up. Though i suppose they wont see much difference as he is invisible out there most of the time.
 

Ovechkins Wodka

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Dec 1, 2007
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Doubtful. Mantha has been bad for sure but he only has one year left before he’s a UFA. With the Caps looking like a bubble team at best over the next few years those picks could be pretty decent. He’s also fine as a 3rd liner and I think he could be better with a new coach.

The first half of the season he had strong underlying metrics and was on a 20-goal/45-point pace while playing on the third line with no PP time. He was in their top three for forwards in G/60 and even strength points per game, and he was one of their best defensive forwards analytically. He has completely fallen off a cliff the last 20-25 games. Some of it is confidence and some of it may be due to injury but I don’t see him as a pure cap dump.
I would rather buyout then trade picks

Dom’s model at The Athletic grades Vitek as a C, Sammy as a C+, and Copley as a C-. They’re playing for better teams so their records are better but their individual numbers are average to poor and they’re still the weakest link on their respective teams.

This does bring up an interesting point though… goaltending seems to be questionable this season for many teams. What contenders feel good about their goaltending? In the East you have Boston, NYI, Tampa, and…? Shesterkin is terrific but he’s very average this year. Carolina has three goalies they’re trying to work through. Toronto, Pittsburgh, New Jersey, Buffalo, Ottawa, and Florida all have shaky and inconsistent goaltending. In the West you have Dallas, Minnesota, and Winnipeg with solid goaltending. Georgiev is having a good season with Colorado but he’s far from a sure thing. Vegas, Seattle, LA, Edmonton, and Calgary all have average to weak goaltending.

Can’t remember a time when goaltending seemed like such a toss-up for this many playoff teams.
We gave Dracy a NTC but would he waive to not play for a shit team?
 

g00n

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Nov 22, 2007
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Irwin is inevitable.


I actually don't hate those lines if Mantha can focus on hockey instead of gnawing his mouthguard.

Milano and Wilson have enough energy to compensate for any speed issues for Backstrom, who can find ways to get them the puck as they step to open areas or the net.

Sheary needs to be on the 3rd line and Strome is going to have an advantage over most 3Cs, imo. Osh-babe brings the gritty presence.

4th line has been this team's strength for years and all those guys should be able to grind it out and maybe chip in a goal (or with NAK get some chances and maybe get lucky).

As for the D I think they're just trying things as the personnel seems to change daily and they need to get Fever back in. Not going to piss my pants over that.
 
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