Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2018-19 We Are The Champions Edition - Pt. 4

[Ridley Simon]

I think it's fair to classify that as calling him out. He straight up said "you're on the outside looking in unless you make me change my mind"

it is....but its different. its not personal, IMO. DSP's issues are about life choices. Thats more personal in that few witness it.

Bowey's play on the ice? Everyone can see that.

 

[txpd]

He's not "pretending its not". He's just not elaborating on it. There's a difference.

Not familiar with how he called out Bowey? Can you elaborate?

He is ignoring the specific reason he isn't ready. When the media can see the type of workouts he is doing and having people off the record telling them its conditioning, he is at best skirting the issue. He has been asked if he is injured and went to his default answer. Asked if its conditioning, default answer. Its disingenuous.

With Bowey, he said that he needed to eliminate the basic defending and defensive zone mistakes and clean up the details in his own zone before he can show some of the things in the offensive game that his skills allow. In short he said that he's making too many defensive zone mistakes and he needs to stop. It was very clear.

On the other side he has now said several times that Seigenthaler is in great condition. the best condition of his career. That he has worked on his skating. The combination of those two things have pushed him into the mix to make the team.

Just saw his comments on Shuk and from those things said, I would not expect to see him in the NHL for a good bit yet

 

[artilector]

I think Reirden is navigating the Bowey and DSP stuff pretty well. He's being very careful in communicating that they're not (yet) at the level needed to make the lineup -- but without throwing them under the bus.

 

[maacoshark]

I disagree that is calling him out, or disclosing internal matters that should be kept internal. Its a basic status report - he needs to be better than the starters and right now he's not. Its nothing like saying he's fat, or lazy, or problematic in any way. Its merely saying he hasn't earned his was onto the ice at the NHL level yet. I see nothing in that statement that should make Bowey upset for it being made public, nor anything that should have been kept private. Saying a guy is 8th and we keep 7 isn't calling him out. And I would expect that is exactly what he tells Bowey in private as well, so he's hardly being deceptive either inwardly or to the media.

Actually it is calling him out. There is no need to be telling the media this stuff. That should be between the players and coaches.

 

[txpd]

I think Reirden is navigating the Bowey and DSP stuff pretty well. He's being very careful in communicating that they're not (yet) at the level needed to make the lineup -- but without throwing them under the bus.

I think Bowey was under the bus. DSP was under the bus but everybody knew it and Reirden didn't need to say it out loud

 

[RandyHolt]

Maybe DSP and GMBM knew he was likely to show up out of shape and his contract terms reflect that. Devo, you showed up last year out of shape, but we want you back...

Any advanced coaching stats on the effectiveness of using the media TOI to motivate players?

TOI = time on internet

 

[kicksavedave]

Actually it is calling him out. There is no need to be telling the media this stuff. That should be between the players and coaches.

Baloney! I've heard 1000 coaches say these things 10,000 times. Its a simple, factual answer to a question of "where does this player stand" WRT making the team or the starting lineup. Nothing controversial, secret, personal, or confidential about those remarks one bit. Nothing.

What sort of beyond vanilla generic answer would you accept when an interviewer asks "what does Bowey have to do to crack the lineup"?

You want a Belichek answer like "play better" or a non answer like "we're always evaluating things all the time".

 

[kicksavedave]

I think Bowey was under the bus. DSP was under the bus but everybody knew it and Reirden didn't need to say it out loud

Throwing someone under the bus is NOT the same as factually reporting their status. Throwing someone under the bus is blaming them for a loss, or disclosing personal information that doesn't belong in the public domain. Saying a player isn't where he needs to be is NOT throwing them under the bus. Saying a player needs to improve to where its hard for me to play someone else is also NOT throwing them under the bus or disclosing dirty laundry. It just isn't.

There is no real fine line between candid and secretive, its a wide swath there. TR is saying things exactly how I want the HC to say things. Factually, but not personally, and not with malice designed to embarrass a player.

 

[artilector]

I think Bowey was under the bus. DSP was under the bus but everybody knew it and Reirden didn't need to say it out loud

I think you've thrown Reirden under some kind of bus, too.

 

[kicksavedave]

Here's TR giving his daily. He talks about DSP around 4:45. Then again around 8:05. Nothing but positive stuff. Very positive.

 

[artilector]

Maybe DSP and GMBM knew he was likely to show up out of shape and his contract terms reflect that. Devo, you showed up last year out of shape, but we want you back...

Any advanced coaching stats on the effectiveness of using the media TOI to motivate players?

TOI = time on internet

Great idea, advanced coaching stats are an unexplored gold mine. TOI, Peak F-words burst capacity, Pats on the back/60, Stare intensity in lumens, etc.

 

[txpd]

I think you've thrown Reirden under some kind of bus, too.

Maybe a short bus. I am not even sure I am criticizing him. In one case he told Bowey in the media that he needed to prove to him that he is better or he wasn't going to play. I have said that maybe that is the way they are trying to get his attention. In the case of DSP its more a comment on the ridiculous nature of NHL coaches and media.

A guy takes a slap shot off the hand. Doesn't return. Its a upper body injury and they will never admit it is his hand. Anyone there knows that DSP was being held out on his conditioning.

I think with Bowey Reirden's comments about Seigenthaler carry the most weight

Nothing against Reirden.

 

[Corby78]

For those who like pod casts or just want to listen to something cool, Capitals Talk had Blain Forsythe on Wednesdays pod cast. They went through some of the top goals of the playoffs and coach Forsythe broke down each play.

Funny thing, he missed DSPs game tying G5 goal, as he was drawing up 6v5 plays.

 

[RandyHolt]

Great idea, advanced coaching stats are an unexplored gold mine. TOI, Peak F-words burst capacity, Pats on the back/60, Stare intensity in lumens, etc.

Now we're talking. It's not easy to recognize a good coach from bad, short of winning cups / finals visits.

How often vets are benched, failed rates of prospects WRT draft position, sweat control, the frequency/effectiveness of red facial hues...

 

[kicksavedave]

Also have to track the ability to multi task, such as shaking head while rolling eyes.

 

[maacoshark]

Baloney! I've heard 1000 coaches say these things 10,000 times. Its a simple, factual answer to a question of "where does this player stand" WRT making the team or the starting lineup. Nothing controversial, secret, personal, or confidential about those remarks one bit. Nothing.

What sort of beyond vanilla generic answer would you accept when an interviewer asks "what does Bowey have to do to crack the lineup"?

You want a Belichek answer like "play better" or a non answer like "we're always evaluating things all the time".

Reirdon should keep that between Bowey and himself.

 

[shtorm2005]

I think season won't be a cake walk. Every team will be extra motivated to beat Caps.

 

[artilector]

Reirdon should keep that between Bowey and himself.

Nothing wrong with setting ironclad moral standards, but just for perspective -- how many Cup-winning coaches do you think have NEVER (even mildly) called out ANY of their players in public?

 

[RandyHolt]

Maybe Bowey was called out behind the scenes last year, and actually regressed. Reirden is a rookie coach, and may be saying more than he wants to. Or, may want to be vocal early in his career in the hope it puts others on notice. Who knows.

Its a young coach and a young kid. I see nothing wrong with a little verbal kick in the.... hockey pants. GYST!

 

[g00n]

It depends on the player. Some will respond to public shaming some will go the opposite direction.

And there's a difference between motivating vs scapegoating. Coaches like Oates would throw players under the bus. That's not the same as letting a guy know through the media that he's on notice to step it up.

You would also hope that anything said publicly has already been expressed and explained privately first, preferably more than once.

 

[TRASHCAT]

We R good @ regular season

 

[searle]

Maybe a short bus. I am not even sure I am criticizing him. In one case he told Bowey in the media that he needed to prove to him that he is better or he wasn't going to play. I have said that maybe that is the way they are trying to get his attention. In the case of DSP its more a comment on the ridiculous nature of NHL coaches and media.

A guy takes a slap shot off the hand. Doesn't return. Its a upper body injury and they will never admit it is his hand. Anyone there knows that DSP was being held out on his conditioning.

I think with Bowey Reirden's comments about Seigenthaler carry the most weight

Nothing against Reirden.

I'm the same. I think he's calling him out, I think that's fine .

He's not throwing him under the bus he's just publically saying he needs to take an extra step.

In my books that's fine, and not a criticism.

 

[txpd]

I'm the same. I think he's calling him out, I think that's fine .

He's not throwing him under the bus he's just publically saying he needs to take an extra step.

In my books that's fine, and not a criticism.

Some people are only motivated by the underside of the bus. Some aren't even motivated there when its the last option

 

[maacoshark]

Nothing wrong with setting ironclad moral standards, but just for perspective -- how many Cup-winning coaches do you think have NEVER (even mildly) called out ANY of their players in public?

For one, Reirden is not a Stanley cup winning head coach and 2nd that was more acceptable in the past than it is now. That remark should gave stayed between Reirden and Bowey.

 

[maacoshark]

Some people are only motivated by the underside of the bus. Some aren't even motivated there when its the last option

And you have no clue what motivates any if these guys.