Confirmed with Link: Capitals to VA is dead. DC decides to pay $515 million dollars to upgrade capital one

[Midnight Judges]

Re: Amazon's traffic plan and minor in the grand scheme it was mentioned that the arena traffic plan would not interfere with it.

https://www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2024/02/13/potomac-yard-arena-deal-virginia-senate

Indeed the planners of this arena are willing to say anything.

They also claimed rush hour is strictly from 5-6 in an effort to downplay impacts. Weekday congestion on route 1 tends to range from 4:30 to 6:30 ish.

They also claimed the Wizards and Capitals combined will only have 27 games a year that impact rush hour.

They also claimed there would be no new taxes or state funding. That was misleading - they are planning to extract $100M from Alexandria, and Alexandria residents would also be on the hook for another $577M in funding if the gameday revenues don't fully materialize. State taxpayers match an additional risk in the same amount ($1.15B in risk altogether).

Additionally, city residents would be on the hook for paying for the additional police presence that Ted Leonsis claims Washington DC has shorted him on. So we foot the bill on that too. No idea what that costs or if there are even additional police resources available.

In other words, this deal was made in complete secrecy for a reason: We take all the risks while Ted makes all the money.

Mr. Youngkin says that no Virginia taxpayer money would fund the project. Even modest crowds would likely generate enough revenue to pay back the bonds. But if those crowds fail to materialize, Virginia taxpayers would be on the hook for up to $577 million, since the state is backstopping part of the loan. Alexandria residents would be responsible for another $577 million in the worst-case situation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/11/virginia-potomac-yard-sports-arena-dc/

 

[Ajax1995]

Indeed the planners of this arena are willing to say anything.

They also claimed rush hour is strictly from 5-6 in an effort to downplay impacts. Weekday congestion on route 1 tends to range from 4:30 to 6:30 ish.

They also claimed the Wizards and Capitals combined will only have 27 games a year that impact rush hour.

They also claimed there would be no new taxes or state funding. That was misleading - they are planning to extract $100M from Alexandria, and Alexandria residents would also be on the hook for another $577M in funding if the gameday revenues don't fully materialize. State taxpayers match an additional risk in the same amount ($1.15B in risk altogether).

Additionally, city residents would be on the hook for paying for the additional police presence that Ted Leonsis claims Washington DC has shorted him on. So we foot the bill on that too. No idea what that costs or if there are even additional police resources available.

In other words, this deal was made in complete secrecy for a reason: We take all the risks while Ted makes all the money.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/11/virginia-potomac-yard-sports-arena-dc/

Realistically, what do you see the odds of ‘modest’ crowds not attending the games? I see it as next to nothing and thus not even worth considering. But of course the funding math has to be based on something and thus technically if people don’t show up somebody has to pay for it. But that is pretty much always the case.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Realistically, what do you see the odds of ‘modest’ crowds not attending the games? I see it as next to nothing and thus not even worth considering. But of course the funding math has to be based on something and thus technically if people don’t show up somebody has to pay for it. But that is pretty much always the case.

The risk should be on the person who stands to benefit - that's how capitalism is supposed to work. This idea that taxpayers take risks while billionaires get the benefits is a perversion of logic.

As for attendance, it has been amazing during the Ovechkin era. I remember what it was like to go to games in the 90s and early to mid 2000s - lots of empty seats.

 

[Kazer]

The risk should be on the person who stands to benefit - that's how capitalism is supposed to work. This idea that taxpayers take risks while billionaires get the benefits is a perversion of logic.

As for attendance, it has been amazing during the Ovechkin era. I remember what it was like to go to games in the 90s and early to mid 2000s - lots of empty seats.

The risk to me is even higher with Wizards games. The last time the Wizards were in the playoffs in a non-covid impacted season was 2017-18, and they averaged 17,973 fans per game (against a basketball capacity of 20,356). I could see that going much lower in Alexandria. The team is drawing 16,679 per game this season.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Win and they will come. The

Indeed the planners of this arena are willing to say anything.

They also claimed rush hour is strictly from 5-6 in an effort to downplay impacts. Weekday congestion on route 1 tends to range from 4:30 to 6:30 ish.

They also claimed the Wizards and Capitals combined will only have 27 games a year that impact rush hour.

They also claimed there would be no new taxes or state funding. That was misleading - they are planning to extract $100M from Alexandria, and Alexandria residents would also be on the hook for another $577M in funding if the gameday revenues don't fully materialize. State taxpayers match an additional risk in the same amount ($1.15B in risk altogether).

Additionally, city residents would be on the hook for paying for the additional police presence that Ted Leonsis claims Washington DC has shorted him on. So we foot the bill on that too. No idea what that costs or if there are even additional police resources available.

In other words, this deal was made in complete secrecy for a reason: We take all the risks while Ted makes all the money.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/11/virginia-potomac-yard-sports-arena-dc/

New arena will be a draw for the first few years regardless of record.

I expect the standard political negotiations will eventually occur. Progress won’t be stopped.

 

[usiel]

Potomac Yards is definitely closer to me even now at 6:40pm its 18 minutes including current traffic. That said it is not too much longer to go straight up 395N into DC for the Cap One arena.

Even if it doesn't end up working out and they stay in DC I don't think the bridges really will be burned. Maybe attempt to do a major reno like what they did at Madison Square Garden. Ok I just checked that renovation was a billion dollars ouch.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Jim Van Stone MSE President on the Junks…..says they’re confident of the next vote in 4 weeks.

 

[Eirikrautha]

I love the "secrecy" complaints. Sure, broadcast your intention to plant a large stadium near X and then watch all the people near X buy up land and jack up the purchase price. I imagine the same people scandalized now would be perfectly fine if the politicians gave a heads up to their relatives and friends to buy up the land and channel the money back to them (as if they don't do that now)...

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I love the "secrecy" complaints. Sure, broadcast your intention to plant a large stadium near X and then watch all the people near X buy up land and jack up the purchase price. I imagine the same people scandalized now would be perfectly fine if the politicians gave a heads up to their relatives and friends to buy up the land and channel the money back to them (as if they don't do that now)...

It’s all part of the Billionaire’s evil plot!

Seriously…..feels like a few people use that here to make it all sound nefarious instead of just business.

 

[usiel]

The House version passed so its up to the interested parties to work with the VA Senate.

 

[usiel]

 

[Midnight Judges]

I love the "secrecy" complaints. Sure, broadcast your intention to plant a large stadium near X and then watch all the people near X buy up land and jack up the purchase price.

Firstly, the people who own the land (JBG Smith) were in the discussions to begin with.

Secondly, for the surrounding land owners, what difference would it make? Maybe the value goes up upon speculation or after they announce. Either way it's impacted by an announcement. Sooner, later, what difference does that make?

 

[usiel]

Firstly, the people who own the land (JBG Smith) were in the discussions to begin with.

Secondly, for the surrounding land owners, what difference would it make? Maybe the value goes up upon speculation or after they announce. Either way it's impacted by an announcement. Sooner, later, what difference does that make?

I mean even for the lame ass del ray NIMBYS this going through would only help home values. being that close to a new entertainment area.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I mean even for the lame ass del ray NIMBYS this going through would only help home values. being that close to a new entertainment area.

The things you've been posting were created by one side that stands to make a lot of money. It'd be about like asking a Chevrolet dealership salesman if Chevrolet makes good cars. You might not get the most objective opinion from them.

NIMBY is more suited for coal plants or paper mills or sewage treatment facilities - things that everyone needs but nobody wants nearby.

Washington DC wants the stadium. Alexandrians generally don't as far as I'm aware. We're not foisting it on someone else, we just know that DC stands to benefit more than we would. The people of Washington DC appear to agree with the people of Alexandria on this.

I live in Rosemont - near Del Ray. My home value has increased by ~ 40% since I bought it in 2011 (and it was expensive to begin with). We don't need a stadium for home values.

You know who does? Washington DC.

That's the problem here. People are touting "economic output" of Alexandria as if that is something to give a shit about. It isn't. We have no lack of economic output. Our household incomes are among the best in the country. Our unemployment rate is rock bottom and relatively consistent even during recessions.

Nevermind that this isn't a gain in economic output for the DMV, it merely moves it 4 miles down the road from a place where it's desperately needed to a place where it isn't needed. So it's actually a net nothing if not a net loss considering how bad it's going to be for China town.

Our traffic f***ing sucks. Our economic output is exceptional. For an Alexandrian to oppose the deal is logical.

The deal doesn't make sense for the DMV as a whole.

 

[g00n]

"Secretly" working without the public and press being up your ass? Meh.

"Secretly" working a back-channel deal to move your business without fully trying to address your concerns with your current business partner? A bit sketchy.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The things you've been posting were created by one side that stands to make a lot of money. It'd be about like asking a Chevrolet dealership salesman if Chevrolet makes good cars. You might not get the most objective opinion from them.

NIMBY is more suited for coal plants or paper mills or sewage treatment facilities - things that everyone needs but nobody wants nearby.

Washington DC wants the stadium. Alexandrians generally don't as far as I'm aware. We're not foisting it on someone else, we just know that DC stands to benefit more than we would. The people of Washington DC appear to agree with the people of Alexandria on this.

I live in Rosement - near Del Ray. My home value has increased by ~ 40% since I bought it in 2011 (and it was expensive to begin with). We don't need a stadium for home values.

You know who does? Washington DC.

That's the problem here. People are touting "economic output" of Alexandria as if that is something to give a shit about. It isn't. We have no lack of economic output. Our household incomes are among the best in the country. Our unemployment rate is rock bottom and relatively consistent even during recessions.

Nevermind that this isn't a gain in economic output for the DMV, it merely moves it 4 miles down the road from a place where it's desperately needed to a place where it isn't needed. So it's actually a net nothing if not a net loss considering how bad it's going to be for China town.

Our traffic f***ing sucks. Our economic output is exceptional. For an Alexandrian to oppose the deal is logical.

The deal doesn't make sense for the DMV as a whole.

Your hostile stance makes a lot more sense now. I wouldn’t want this in Loudoun a few miles from my house that’s gone up 45% either….

 

[usiel]

The things you've been posting were created by one side that stands to make a lot of money. It'd be about like asking a Chevrolet dealership salesman if Chevrolet makes good cars. You might not get the most objective opinion from them.

NIMBY is more suited for coal plants or paper mills or sewage treatment facilities - things that everyone needs but nobody wants nearby.

Washington DC wants the stadium. Alexandrians generally don't as far as I'm aware. We're not foisting it on someone else, we just know that DC stands to benefit more than we would. The people of Washington DC appear to agree with the people of Alexandria on this.

I live in Rosemont - near Del Ray. My home value has increased by ~ 40% since I bought it in 2011 (and it was expensive to begin with). We don't need a stadium for home values.

You know who does? Washington DC.

That's the problem here. People are touting "economic output" of Alexandria as if that is something to give a shit about. It isn't. We have no lack of economic output. Our household incomes are among the best in the country. Our unemployment rate is rock bottom and relatively consistent even during recessions.

Nevermind that this isn't a gain in economic output for the DMV, it merely moves it 4 miles down the road from a place where it's desperately needed to a place where it isn't needed. So it's actually a net nothing if not a net loss considering how bad it's going to be for China town.

Our traffic f***ing sucks. Our economic output is exceptional. For an Alexandrian to oppose the deal is logical.

The deal doesn't make sense for the DMV as a whole.

Putting in that arena there in DC completely gentrified that area. That was two blocks from the old 9:30 Club and was basically a no go area for a caucasian suburban softie like myself back then. The Verizon Center did its job and completely upscaled that area. Now I have been down there since Covid days so no idea if suddenly the area is on a decline.

I don't really get this 'desperately needed' thing.

In that junky's video it was pretty obvious the desire for Monumental. 4 acres versus 12 acres. They did attempt to grill Stone about alternative sites. He was pretty careful not to take the bait.

For me it is a bit of a Virginian thing. I remember the failed attempt by JKC to build a stadium at the same location to see that get sunk also. But then Maryland got to have the team there.

If I could wave my magic wand I would love to see them build an arena in Tysons Corner. Perfect nexus of 495/66/toll road/silver line. The area from Tyco Road north to 267 seems like a bunch of options for redevelopment. No idea how many different land owners.

 

[Caps8112]

Putting in that arena there in DC completely gentrified that area. That was two blocks from the old 9:30 Club and was basically a no go area for a caucasian suburban softie like myself back then. The Verizon Center did its job and completely upscaled that area. Now I have been down there since Covid days so no idea if suddenly the area is on a decline.

I don't really get this 'desperately needed' thing.

In that junky's video it was pretty obvious the desire for Monumental. 4 acres versus 12 acres. They did attempt to grill Stone about alternative sites. He was pretty careful not to take the bait.

For me it is a bit of a Virginian thing. I remember the failed attempt by JKC to build a stadium at the same location to see that get sunk also. But then Maryland got to have the team there.

If I could wave my magic wand I would love to see them build an arena in Tysons Corner. Perfect nexus of 495/66/toll road/silver line. The area from Tyco Road north to 267 seems like a bunch of options for redevelopment. No idea how many different land owners.

just smells like weed everywhere you go, all the time.

that would effectively ensure I never go to a game again being in MD. that whole area is a traffic nightmare.

Can understand what MJ is saying with the Alexandria site tho. Route 1 is already a disaster and it certainly wont support game traffic. Dont see them upgrading the roads to support the stadium

 

[usiel]

just smells like weed everywhere you go, all the time.

that would effectively ensure I never go to a game again being in MD. that whole area is a traffic nightmare.

Can understand what MJ is saying with the Alexandria site tho. Route 1 is already a disaster and it certainly wont support game traffic. Dont see them upgrading the roads to support the stadium

Bolded I'm in NOVA and any highway these days I'm always getting the weed smell. Have no idea why people drive and smoke weed at the same time I mean its not like cigarettes. / ends rant.

 

[Brian23]

that would effectively ensure I never go to a game again being in MD. that whole area is a traffic nightmare.

But why? It seems like such a common sentiment from Marylanders and it seems like such a ridiculous stance to me. It's 5 miles south, and that's gonna hurt MD fandom? It's too far to traverse?

VA Cap fans spent years going into Maryland to see bad teams play. Commander fans have still had to go into Maryland to see their garbage team play, in a garbage stadium, with an awful walk too get their if they aren't parking in the awful parking setup.

And for someone who's had to go into DC for work often enough, DC traffic was already a nightmare. A bad day at the Yard isn't going to be any worse then a bad day in DC.

 

[dreadpirateroberts]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2024/02/17/wizards-capitals-leonsis-bowser-youngkin/

 

[Kazer]

But why? It seems like such a common sentiment from Marylanders and it seems like such a ridiculous stance to me. It's 5 miles south, and that's gonna hurt MD fandom? It's too far to traverse?

VA Cap fans spent years going into Maryland to see bad teams play. Commander fans have still had to go into Maryland to see their garbage team play, in a garbage stadium, with an awful walk too get their if they aren't parking in the awful parking setup.

And for someone who's had to go into DC for work often enough, DC traffic was already a nightmare. A bad day at the Yard isn't going to be any worse then a bad day in DC.

Is it really that hard to understand why driving to 40+ games a year, many during the week, would be significantly different than driving to 8 [mostly] Sunday games a year?

I'd also love to see stats on how many Virginians went to games regularly when it was over in Landover. I'm guessing it was not a big portion.

 

[Caps8112]

But why? It seems like such a common sentiment from Marylanders and it seems like such a ridiculous stance to me. It's 5 miles south, and that's gonna hurt MD fandom? It's too far to traverse?

VA Cap fans spent years going into Maryland to see bad teams play. Commander fans have still had to go into Maryland to see their garbage team play, in a garbage stadium, with an awful walk too get their if they aren't parking in the awful parking setup.

And for someone who's had to go into DC for work often enough, DC traffic was already a nightmare. A bad day at the Yard isn't going to be any worse then a bad day in DC.

I was referring to if it were moved to Tyson’s. That whole area is nightmare traffic. Barely go to dc anymore except for work. Haven’t gone to many games in the past couple years because that means you’re not getting home until 11 1130. Assume Tyson’s would be the same or worse. Actually got a hotel downtown, the last game I went too.
Not sure I understand the point about Va fans having to go to Md and dc all these years. Why would Md fans now want to do that

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

If 5 miles is going to make or break your fandom, then you were a fan largely due to convenience anyways. If this was going 5 miles the other way, I could give a damn, but Virginians did that already…..and still do for that craphole Fedex.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I was referring to if it were moved to Tyson’s. That whole area is nightmare traffic. Barely go to dc anymore except for work. Haven’t gone to many games in the past couple years because that means you’re not getting home until 11 1130. Assume Tyson’s would be the same or worse. Actually got a hotel downtown, the last game I went too.
Not sure I understand the point about Va fans having to go to Md and dc all these years. Why would Md fans now want to do that

It’s been that way for 25 years for me….I drive from Loudoun County….leave by 5 to safely arrive and park before a 7pm game. Some days traffic is moving and you’re there early enough to grab a quick bite to eat before, some days you’re rushing to get in before the anthem. Game ends by 930-10, home by 1030-11.

And Md fans probably don’t….but….tough. If that means you won’t be fan so be it. Some day I’ll retire away from this area and will NEVER attend games, but that won’t stop me following this team. Comes off as spoiled to me….