OT: Capitals Cinema Club: TV and Movies

[Jags]

Perspective is funny though, you see the insiders seem to view this as a hatchet job against Vince now. I felt like the series was pretty down the middle…not too heavily slanted either way.

I thought it was very well made, and excellent for people that don't know McMahon's story at all. But even if you have a cursory understanding of his background -- I'm not a pro wrestling fan, but I grew up in the 80s when you couldn't escape it -- there's nothing new to discover. The most shocking moments are still the Stossel/Costas/Keteyian interviews and the gruesome demises of so many of the wrestlers in his stable. And all of that happened ages ago.

The recent stories surrounding the company were his pretty obvious affairs (not shocking because his fake affairs and storylines were more salacious), the typical fall of a titan as they lose the spotlight and power and become decrepit (Kraft, Cosby, Weinstein, and on and on), and the stuff with his version of Eric and Ivanka (also far more interesting in their on-screen personas written by 9-year-olds than in real life).

For the uninitiated, it's appointment viewing. Very well done. But if you know anything at all about WWE, there's nothing new.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I thought it was very well made, and excellent for people that don't know McMahon's story at all. But even if you have a cursory understanding of his background -- I'm not a pro wrestling fan, but I grew up in the 80s when you couldn't escape it -- there's nothing new to discover. The most shocking moments are still the Stossel/Costas/Keteyian interviews and the gruesome demises of so many of the wrestlers in his stable. And all of that happened ages ago.

The recent stories surrounding the company were his pretty obvious affairs (not shocking because his fake affairs and storylines were more salacious), the typical fall of a titan as they lose the spotlight and power and become decrepit (Kraft, Cosby, Weinstein, and on and on), and the stuff with his version of Eric and Ivanka (also far more interesting in their on-screen personas written by 9-year-olds than in real life).

For the uninitiated, it's appointment viewing. Very well done. But if you know anything at all about WWE, there's nothing new.

I mean come on if you’re not a pretty hardcore wrestling fan, you wouldn’t typically know much of what’s happened in that world unless you watched all the seasons of Dark side of the ring and read up a LOT lol….hell a lot of wrestling fans don’t know all that stuff. I didn’t. I learned a ton watching Dark Side of the Ring myself, especially the older years.

I think there’s plenty to enjoy from this series for the average fan.

Pretty sickening how Hogan dropped Belzer….I mean put him to sleep ok, but to drop him so his head hits was crazy…

 

[Jags]

I mean come on if you’re not a pretty hardcore wrestling fan, you wouldn’t typically know much of what’s happened in that world

Fair enough, but like you said, perspective is tricky that way. I'm not a wrestling fan at all, but I love sports. So I've watched sports news a ton since I was pretty young. The WWF was all over the place in the 80s, but McMahon shot to the forefront when they got sued by Stossel, which was a huge news story at the time, and Vince definitely makes an impression that lasts.

So over the years, when it happened over and over again pretty much every time he was interviewed outside of his wrestling bubble, those of us that live outside that bubble got pretty frequent reminders that, "That dude that owns wrestling is f***ing nuts." The Costas and Keteyian interviews made major headlines.

My point is that if you're not a wrestling fan but are a big sports fan, most of those stories were pretty common knowledge if you just followed sports news. Outside of being a fan, WWE's only claims to fame are the deaths, steroids, and crazy shit that happens outside the sport, most of which involved McMahon. I haven't seen the show you mentioned, but Gumble's HBO show covered the ongoing nuttiness at semiregular intervals, and there were a couple 30 for 30s.

Inside of pro wrestling, there were absolutely things I never heard. A couple behind-the-scenes things were interesting -- stuff like taking the belt from Hart -- but most of the stuff that was new to me were just things that illustrate how juvenile and often disgusting the "stories" are. Less interesting than just kinda f***ed up, y'know?

 

[RedRocking]

That one is just not going to unpack for some people. It's a very clear trans allegory (though you can also make a case for neurodivergence and it works, which makes it slightly more broad in appeal) and not heavy on narrative. It's constructed to play off the understanding of those feelings and struggles, so if you don't have them, it's going to be relatively hard to find an anchor.

Base level, it's a Buffy/Twin Peaks tribute film but it uses all that as flavor so it's not very narrative based in the sense that they don’t really engage with some known bad.

Spoiler: Overview

The story is really about Owen being Isabel and how they wrestle with that concept, escapism, denial, and ultimately the slow death of staying in what you know instead of being who you think you are.

Maddy feels the slow death and gets out, comes back actualized (or killed herself, it’s honestly not clear because Owen’s an unreliable narrator) and wants to get Owen to “the Pink Opaque” but it’s not the show so much as letting go of this “reality”. Maddy bringing Owen to the 50 yard line becomes a significant moment when you understand this, as does a lot of the Mr. Melancholy stuff. For trans people you really can die slow, die fast, or break out and seem pretty limited to those options.

I have friends in the experience which made it easier to spot those themes early but really if you distill it down to “the slow death of choosing not to live the life that would make you happy”, you can look at the ending with Owen suffering in this eerie isolation and apologizing for existing and that’s a lot more universal.

This is a really good analysis. I don’t have any real-life perspective - but, I was pretty sure it was a trans allegory when I watched it. Or, more broadly - extreme loneliness and isolation (for whatever reason) to the point where your very reality/existence feels alien to you. It was a while ago, so now I’m curious to re-watch with your detailed take in mind.

But, definitely not for everyone. If you don’t like Lynch-like avant garde stuff, that doesn’t have clear answers, then it’s probably not gonna land. Their other movie “We’re All Going to the World’s Fair” was also more of a disquieting psychological drama than horror movie.

 

[HTFN]

This is a really good analysis. I don’t have any real-life perspective - but, I was pretty sure it was a trans allegory when I watched it. Or, more broadly - extreme loneliness and isolation (for whatever reason) to the point where your very reality/existence feels alien to you. It was a while ago, so now I’m curious to re-watch with your detailed take in mind.

But, definitely not for everyone. If you don’t like Lynch-like avant garde stuff, that doesn’t have clear answers, then it’s probably not gonna land. Their other movie “We’re All Going to the World’s Fair” was also more of a disquieting psychological drama than horror movie.

It's a unique film because even I was sitting there going "okay, I get it but where is this going" and then suddenly the last 20-30 minutes or so just takes off. If you get what's going on a lot of those monologues hit way harder, a bunch of stuff clicks, and the final scenes with Owen are profoundly uncomfortable and riveting.

Spoiler: vague spoilers?

You're right though, in a broader sense this speaks to loners and people generally trapped in a state of arrested development due to any variety of inability to attack and approach the world around them, because Owen is definitively not taking steps forward. I found out after this that the scene on the football field is supposed to be representative of the "egg crack", which is the moment a trans person breaches the final hurdle of their self-identity and acknowledges that serious need for change, but Owen freaks out and bails (and it's the last time they see Maddy). Rejection of the self and dissociation is a part of it, although at a certain point the "dissociation" here is that the realities are inverted and it's clever how they make that flip work. The more you understand the metaphor of the Pink Opaque the more those lines blur and then resolve, and that part is very well done.

This whole thing ending with the main character essentially apologizing for existing and experiencing something is painfully moving and strikes me as genuinely good cinema, even if the whole film doesn't always hit that mark.

 

[HeyMattyB]

Just watched “I saw the TV glow” on HBO... It was a weird mix of poltergeist and Twin Peaks.

I'm sold.

That one is just not going to unpack for some people. It's a very clear trans allegory (though you can also make a case for neurodivergence and it works, which makes it slightly more broad in appeal) and not heavy on narrative. It's constructed to play off the understanding of those feelings and struggles, so if you don't have them, it's going to be relatively hard to find an anchor.

Base level, it's a Buffy/Twin Peaks tribute film but it uses all that as flavor so it's not very narrative based in the sense that they don’t really engage with some known bad.

Okay, I'm *extremely* sold.

If you don’t like Lynch-like avant garde stuff, that doesn’t have clear answers, then it’s probably not gonna land.

Seriously, why haven't I watched this yet?

It's a unique film because even I was sitting there going "okay, I get it but where is this going" and then suddenly the last 20-30 minutes or so just takes off. If you get what's going on a lot of those monologues hit way harder, a bunch of stuff clicks, and the final scenes with Owen are profoundly uncomfortable and riveting.

*Scrambles to watch this before the regular season starts, and what limited tv/film-watching time I have available becomes dedicated to watching the Caps*