Value of: Cap Space

[thestonedkoala]

A lot of teams are at razor thin margins this year with Colorado being the middle and having less than 200k in space. So if a team wanted to add a couple players and have a third team use their cap space as an asset how much is it worth? A first? A second?

Click to read more...

 

[gojetsgo]

2023 Trade Deadline Countdown: Which teams will be third-party money brokers?

It’s likely the final Trade Deadline of the flat-cap era, meaning buyer teams need all financial help they can get,...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

A lot of teams are at razor thin margins this year with Colorado being the middle and having less than 200k in space. So if a team wanted to add a couple players and have a third team use their cap space as an asset how much is it worth? A first? A second?

A 4th or 5th, as has been proven every time.

 

[thestonedkoala]

A 4th or 5th, as has been proven every time.

That's for a couple hundred though. A first apparently is over 800k.

 

[McJedi]

A lot of teams are at razor thin margins this year with Colorado being the middle and having less than 200k in space. So if a team wanted to add a couple players and have a third team use their cap space as an asset how much is it worth? A first? A second?

The Avs probably have +$6mm in cap space. Don’t plan on seeing EJ play again in the regular season.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

2023 Trade Deadline Countdown: Which teams will be third-party money brokers?

It’s likely the final Trade Deadline of the flat-cap era, meaning buyer teams need all financial help they can get,...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

That's for a couple hundred though. A first apparently is over 800k.

Seravalli forgot Marleau’s $3 mil signing bonus in that calculation. Carolina ate almost $4 mil for that pick.

Also, Vegas was responsible for 40% of Brassard for 18-19, which adds an additional $1.4 mil to his overall cash cost.

25% retention of Kane on deadline day, for example, costs a shade under 600k for the rest of the season. A 3rd is more in line for that. A team may try to reset the market by asking for a 2nd. The current prices feel pretty modest for a necessary component in certain trades.

 

[mouser]

That's for a couple hundred though. A first apparently is over 800k.

A 1st is over $4m.

 

[gojetsgo]

Seravalli forgot Marleau’s $3 mil signing bonus in that calculation. Carolina ate almost $4 mil for that pick.

Also, Vegas was responsible for 40% of Brassard for 18-19, which adds an additional $1.4 mil to his overall cash cost.

25% retention of Kane on deadline day, for example, costs a shade under 600k for the rest of the season. A 3rd is more in line for that. A team may try to reset the market by asking for a 2nd. The current prices feel pretty modest for a necessary component in certain trades.

25% of kane at the deadline will be around 166k in real cash

 

[mouser]

25% retention of Kane on deadline day, for example, costs a shade under 600k for the rest of the season. A 3rd is more in line for that. A team may try to reset the market by asking for a 2nd. The current prices feel pretty modest for a necessary component in certain trades.

Kane‘s salary this season is only $2.9m (he had a $4m signing bonus).

At the deadline a third party team at 25% is only paying $165k in real cash. That‘s a 5th round pick.

 

[mouser]

Very rough estimates on third team retaining 25% at the trade deadline on expiring contracts. This is based on recent historical examples:

All numbers are the real $cash$ retained, not cap hit retained.

3rd round pick: ~$500k
4th round pick: ~$250k
5th round pick: ~$125k
6th round pick: ~$65k

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

25% of kane at the deadline will be around 166k in real cash

Kane‘s salary this season is only $2.9m (he had a $4m signing bonus).

At the deadline a third party team at 25% is only paying $165k in real cash. That‘s a 5th round pick.

My bad. Ignored the structure of his contract.

 

[Djp]

Very rough estimates on third team retaining 25% at the trade deadline on expiring contracts. This is based on recent historical examples:

3rd round pick: ~$500k
4th round pick: ~$250k
5th round pick: ~$125k
6th round pick: ~$65k

This also factors in times before when more teams had space to help. Not so now.

thr other piece in the article thst is seemed to ignore is the actual money owed …not cap space. So ROR has a high cap hit but only $1M in salary.

why should Buffalo and Detroit help their playoff competitors improve by doing a pass thru unless the return was worth it? Like Washington or Pittsburgh adding a player…Detroit and buffalo are not helping them by getting say just a 5 th to pas through, instead they say a 2nd is what it costs.

a time it might not is when two teams thst has cap space and a high UFA to move helps each other out by being each other’s pass through to get higher return for each team.

My bad. Ignored the structure of his contract.

This is why it’s easier to move him that say Monahan whose actual salary is near double what kane got.

 

[mouser]

This also factors in times before when more teams had space to help. Not so now.

thr other piece in the article thst is seemed to ignore is the actual money owed …not cap space. So ROR has a high cap hit but only $1M in salary.

why should Buffalo and Detroit help their playoff competitors improve by doing a pass thru unless the return was worth it? Like Washington or Pittsburgh adding a player…Detroit and buffalo are not helping them by getting say just a 5 th to pas through, instead they say a 2nd is what it costs.

a time it might not is when two teams thst has cap space and a high UFA to move helps each other out by being each other’s pass through to get higher return for each team.


This is why it’s easier to move him that say Monahan whose actual salary is near double what kane got.

Doesn’t matter when retaining on expiring contracts. There will be over $300m in cap space available at the trade deadline for third party retention. Anaheim and Arizona are projected to have $140m+ combined.

 

[Djp]

Doesn’t matter when retaining on expiring contracts. There will be over $300m in cap space available at the trade deadline for third party retention. Anaheim and Arizona are projected to have $140m+ combined.

Missed my point.

in years past more teams had cap space to do pass thru deals lowering the market privpce.

in 2023 how many teams are going to do pass thrus? Less than before.

then you factor in who is involved snd who wants to help.

just like summer teams weren’t helping out over cap teams and taking their garbage for them. They forcEd them to pay a premium.

this has nothing to do with summer cap space.

 

[mouser]

Missed my point.

in years past more teams had cap space to do pass thru deals lowering the market privpce.

in 2023 how many teams are going to do pass thrus? Less than before.

then you factor in who is involved snd who wants to help.

just like summer teams weren’t helping out over cap teams and taking their garbage for them. They forcEd them to pay a premium.

this has nothing to do with summer cap space.

And my point is there will still be more than enough suitors with the free cap space to do third party 25% retention at the deadline on expiring contracts this deadline. Just like there have been more then enough suitors in every prior trade deadline.

The # of teams with free cap space looking for a pick will be larger than the # of trades seeking third team 25% retention.

For example, over half of the league’s teams could afford retaining 25% on Kane or Toews. Many of those teams will end up making the playoffs and not interested in brokering a deal, but there will still be at least 8-10 teams with the cap space. And that’s for the largest possible contracts out there in Kane/Toews. Even more teams could retain on smaller contracts.

 

[Djp]

And my point is there will still be more than enough suitors with the free cap space to do third party 25% retention at the deadline on expiring contracts this deadline. Just like there have been more then enough suitors in every prior trade deadline.

The # of teams with free cap space looking for a pick will be larger than the # of trades seeking third team 25% retention.

For example, over half of the league’s teams could afford retaining 25% on Kane or Toews. Many of those teams will end up making the playoffs and not interested in brokering a deal, but there will still be at least 8-10 teams with the cap space. And that’s for the largest possible contracts out there in Kane/Toews. Even more teams could retain on smaller contracts.

You only have 3 per team.

chicago And San Jose who have space also have roster players to use these on. Doing 2 per player starts to cut diwn significantly on the number of slots to use thus raising its price.

 

[mouser]

You only have 3 per team.

chicago And San Jose who have space also have roster players to use these on. Doing 2 per player starts to cut diwn significantly on the number of slots to use thus raising its price.

How common do you think third party 25% retention is? We’ve seen less than 10 cumulatively over the past 5 years. (Average of less than 2/year)

I’d be astounded if any team could use all 3 of their retention slots for 25% this trade deadline.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

A lot of teams are at razor thin margins this year with Colorado being the middle and having less than 200k in space. So if a team wanted to add a couple players and have a third team use their cap space as an asset how much is it worth? A first? A second?

Lots of teams will likely end up using LTIR space.


Like Colorado. They only have $200k in cap space, but Erik Johnson will be put on LTIR and that will give them $6M in LTIR space to use.

Keep in mind as well $200k in space at the trade deadline means being able to add ~4x that amount in salary to still be compliant at the deadline.


Long story short, the values that have been well established from prior years will remain the same. ~$150k in real money retention is about a 5th round pick. $500k in real money retention is a 3rd round pick.


I dont think any expiring free agent contract this summer would come even close to $500k in real money retained(As a 3rd party) this year. Off the top of my head Sean Monahan might be the highest real money UFA contract this year at $6M. $4.5M of that will have been paid already by Montreal meaning $1.5M left. If a team retains 25% of that you're talking ~$375k which will be somewhere in between a 3rd and 4th round pick in value.