Confirmed with Link: Canucks Trade W Vasily Podkolzin to Oilers for 2025 4th (OTT)

[Bleach Clean]

He doesn't read the game good enough to fit into the sea of PDG's style that Tocchet plays

You're right, Podkolzin does not provide the utility of PDG because he doesn't PK. Conversely, he has an offensive upside PDG does not provide.

But when you're on a 9 point pace in your 23 year old season, the offensive upside is really hard to see.

I think they should have kept Podkolzin because there was no future in PDG/Sprong, but I can understand why they walked away.

 

[RandV]

Oilers fans seem happy with Pods. It's not like they are complaining about Pods deployment alongside Drai. Reports out of Edmonton suggest that things are going well.

I would suspect there's some coping with how well Dylan Holloway is doing in St. Louis.

 

[Tables of Stats]

Podkolzin has a 30 point pace stappled to Drai's hip. If he was playing in our bottom-6 he'd be producing nothing, just like he'd done every other season after his rookie year.

 

[F A N]

The last line of your reply reminds me of a conversation I had a long time ago with @MS about if the canucks should have made room for Frankie Corrado. At the time I was taking your point of view. However you can’t always do that. Especially with first round picks. They get so much leeway to make the team, when they don’t it’s because they aren’t worth it.

I was thinking of the Corrado situation when I wrote that but there was a clear #6/#7 spot for him but Hutton's surprising play changed things. Corrado was suppose to be NHL ready at the time but IIRC he was even outplayed by even Biega. Regardless, that was a player the Canucks had making the team and when he didn't the Canucks tried to trade him and couldn't and then tried to sneak him through waivers and failed. I think there were moves that Benning could have made to keep Corrado and that was a source of anger among the fan base when he was lost to waivers. I do think there's a difference between making room for a younger player to make the team and ultimately waiving that young player when the young player failed to step up.

Last year at every point PDG played ahead of Pods… like that’s just a fact, even when he reverted… he was still played ahead of Pods.

So what? PDG was playing ahead of a lot of guys. At one point he was averaging more ES minutes than Petey. Is he really the difference between the Canucks contending and not contending? JR prior to last season said he prefers a retool to a rebuild: "I’d prefer to get younger NHL players that maybe didn’t work out in their entry-level contract and, you know, bring them in and give them a second chance." Allvin this past summer has talked about wanting to be a faster team. Pods is faster and younger and PDG has a limited NHL future. That's just a fact.

And yeah you have to earn the coaches trust… see Kure for what happens otherwise.

You have to develop players, and Pods had absolutely stagnated for 2 seasons. Now if you want to argue that was the Canucks fault for bad development… sure I can hear that.

Again oilers fans like him because he is rutable good kid, stands up for teammates, hits… that doesn’t mean he is good…

Podkolzin has a 30 point pace stappled to Drai's hip. If he was playing in our bottom-6 he'd be producing nothing, just like he'd done every other season after his rookie year.

Look at what the Kings did. They lost Lizotte and signed Turcotte to a deal that would make teams think twice about picking him up if he wasn't NHL-calibre. One of the players Turcotte had to beat was Studnicka (i.e. there was a legitimate chance for him to win a spot).

PDG at one point went 26 games without a single point and finished with 5 goals and 10 points despite some top 6 minutes. Let's not pretend that PDG is somehow so much better offensively than Pods that it makes a difference.

You're right, Podkolzin does not provide the utility of PDG because he doesn't PK. Conversely, he has an offensive upside PDG does not provide.

But when you're on a 9 point pace in your 23 year old season, the offensive upside is really hard to see.

I think they should have kept Podkolzin because there was no future in PDG/Sprong, but I can understand why they walked away.

I think PDG's PK utility is overrated in the grand scheme of things. Last season, Bluegar, Joshua, and Aman (when he was in the lineup) were all ahead of PDG. Suter and Petey too in the regular season (with Miller being close). We lost Lindholm but we signed Sherwood, Heinan, and Debrusk who all have PK utility.

Keep in mind that it's not like PDG was known for his penalty killing prior to joining the Canucks. I'm not aware of PDG being some sort of elite penalty killer over what the Canucks have.

He doesn't read the game good enough to fit into the sea of PDG's style that Tocchet plays

I think he does. Pods' issue is he has a tendency to lose confidence and overthink the game. In past comments, Tocchet doesn't talk about Pods needing to read the play better in terms of ability. He talked about Pods needing to play more recklessly and not overthink things.

 

[racerjoe]

I was thinking of the Corrado situation when I wrote that but there was a clear #6/#7 spot for him but Hutton's surprising play changed things. Corrado was suppose to be NHL ready at the time but IIRC he was even outplayed by even Biega. Regardless, that was a player the Canucks had making the team and when he didn't the Canucks tried to trade him and couldn't and then tried to sneak him through waivers and failed. I think there were moves that Benning could have made to keep Corrado and that was a source of anger among the fan base when he was lost to waivers. I do think there's a difference between making room for a younger player to make the team and ultimately waiving that young player when the young player failed to step up.


So what? PDG was playing ahead of a lot of guys. At one point he was averaging more ES minutes than Petey. Is he really the difference between the Canucks contending and not contending? JR prior to last season said he prefers a retool to a rebuild: "I’d prefer to get younger NHL players that maybe didn’t work out in their entry-level contract and, you know, bring them in and give them a second chance." Allvin this past summer has talked about wanting to be a faster team. Pods is faster and younger and PDG has a limited NHL future. That's just a fact.





Look at what the Kings did. They lost Lizotte and signed Turcotte to a deal that would make teams think twice about picking him up if he wasn't NHL-calibre. One of the players Turcotte had to beat was Studnicka (i.e. there was a legitimate chance for him to win a spot).

PDG at one point went 26 games without a single point and finished with 5 goals and 10 points despite some top 6 minutes. Let's not pretend that PDG is somehow so much better offensively than Pods that it makes a difference.




I think PDG's PK utility is overrated in the grand scheme of things. Last season, Bluegar, Joshua, and Aman (when he was in the lineup) were all ahead of PDG. Suter and Petey too in the regular season (with Miller being close). We lost Lindholm but we signed Sherwood, Heinan, and Debrusk who all have PK utility.

Keep in mind that it's not like PDG was known for his penalty killing prior to joining the Canucks. I'm not aware of PDG being some sort of elite penalty killer over what the Canucks have.


I think he does. Pods' issue is he has a tendency to lose confidence and overthink the game. In past comments, Tocchet doesn't talk about Pods needing to read the play better in terms of ability. He talked about Pods needing to play more recklessly and not overthink things.

You are making too big of a deal trying to prove he is better than PDG… fact is he wasn’t last year, and wasn’t good at the beginning of this year. And if he was it was marginally. Players like pods you can pick up in FA easily… see Heinen, Sherwood, or any countless other player that was available.

 

[tantalum]

You are making too big of a deal trying to prove he is better than PDG… fact is he wasn’t last year, and wasn’t good at the beginning of this year. And if he was it was marginally. Players like pods you can pick up in FA easily… see Heinen, Sherwood, or any countless other player that was available.

Yep.

And fact is, he is still only getting 13 minutes a night. He's still very much a bottom of the lineup player who gets some shifts in the top 6 because the Oilers have very few wingers with distinguishing ability. He has 8 points in his last 20 games...the same 30 point pace he has been on all year with most if not all those points coming with Draisatl. Essentially the same point pace as Brown, Perry, Skinner and Arvidsson. A who's who of replaceable parts. Their very own Sea of Granlunds.

 

[Tables of Stats]

Look at what the Kings did. They lost Lizotte and signed Turcotte to a deal that would make teams think twice about picking him up if he wasn't NHL-calibre. One of the players Turcotte had to beat was Studnicka (i.e. there was a legitimate chance for him to win a spot).

PDG at one point went 26 games without a single point and finished with 5 goals and 10 points despite some top 6 minutes. Let's not pretend that PDG is somehow so much better offensively than Pods that it makes a difference.

I'm not worried about PDG's scoring. I'm worried that Podkolzin isn't a great defender, is inconsistent physically, and has shown zero growth over the past few seasons. If you're interested, you can pick up a player of his calibre on waivers.

Also, the choice isn't and has never been PDG or Podkolzin, PDG was a placeholder. We made a gamble that Karlsson, Hoglander, Raty, Bains, et al. were ready to take that next step and that a 4th round pick was more worth it than playing Podz or risking him on waivers.

 

[F A N]

You are making too big of a deal trying to prove he is better than PDG… fact is he wasn’t last year, and wasn’t good at the beginning of this year. And if he was it was marginally. Players like pods you can pick up in FA easily… see Heinen, Sherwood, or any countless other player that was available.

We are paying Heinen $2.25M a year. We are paying Sherwood $1.5M and he's been an absolute steal. Neither of them are 23 with years of team control left.

Yep.

And fact is, he is still only getting 13 minutes a night. He's still very much a bottom of the lineup player who gets some shifts in the top 6 because the Oilers have very few wingers with distinguishing ability.

Nothing wrong with having Pods playing a bottom 6 role earning $1M AAV and supplying his energy.

I'm not worried about PDG's scoring. I'm worried that Podkolzin isn't a great defender, is inconsistent physically, and has shown zero growth over the past few seasons. If you're interested, you can pick up a player of his calibre on waivers.

Also, the choice isn't and has never been PDG or Podkolzin, PDG was a placeholder. We made a gamble that Karlsson, Hoglander, Raty, Bains, et al. were ready to take that next step and that a 4th round pick was more worth it than playing Podz or risking him on waivers.

Pods is a good defender. He has generally been a positive possession player, strong forechecker who doesn't give away the puck, and he throws a ton of hits. Like if we drafted a guy like that with a 4th round pick I would be thrilled.

 

[racerjoe]

We are paying Heinen $2.25M a year. We are paying Sherwood $1.5M and he's been an absolute steal. Neither of them are 23 with years of team control left.


Nothing wrong with having Pods playing a bottom 6 role earning $1M AAV and supplying his energy.



Pods is a good defender. He has generally been a positive possession player, strong forechecker who doesn't give away the puck, and he throws a ton of hits. Like if we drafted a guy like that with a 4th round pick I would be thrilled.

And how is his PKing which is a big prerequisite for this coaching staff?

 

[F A N]

And how is his PKing which is a big prerequisite for this coaching staff?

Pods' PKing looks pretty good. He's only logged a bit more than 30 minutes total this year but just looking at his GA/60, xGA/60, it's better than those who have logged more PK minutes on the Oilers. In comparison, PDG's GA/60 is better than Pods but Pods' xGA/60 is better. I think Sherwood has been better than Heinen.

It's not like Heinan and PDG, earlier in their careers, were utilized on the PK much. Like Heinen pretty much didn't play on the PK at all in Pittsburgh or during his first stint in Boston.

Personally, I think Pods' game makes him a good candidate to be a penalty killer. I believe he killed penalties at the KHL level as well. But really, unless you're a C, a lot of wingers are interchangeable.

 

[racerjoe]

Pods' PKing looks pretty good. He's only logged a bit more than 30 minutes total this year but just looking at his GA/60, xGA/60, it's better than those who have logged more PK minutes on the Oilers. In comparison, PDG's GA/60 is better than Pods but Pods' xGA/60 is better. I think Sherwood has been better than Heinen.

It's not like Heinan and PDG, earlier in their careers, were utilized on the PK much. Like Heinen pretty much didn't play on the PK at all in Pittsburgh or during his first stint in Boston.

Personally, I think Pods' game makes him a good candidate to be a penalty killer. I believe he killed penalties at the KHL level as well. But really, unless you're a C, a lot of wingers are interchangeable.

Comparing the early part of a 116th overall pick vs a 10 pick is pretty disingenuous. Top 10-15 picks are closer to what they will be when drafted, it’s why they are drafted so high. So talking about earlier in their careers is weird.

So far your argument has been mostly because he is younger…and I am just not seeing it.

The oilers are 21st in PK the Canucks are 12th.

 

[God]

The Canucks went from a team that picked 11th overall to one that was a game away from making the WCF, and that probably sealed Podz' fate. If they had squeaked into or barely missed the playoffs, the team would've probably been ok with not signing Heinen (for example) and being even more patient with Podz. They just couldn't afford to babysit him when the team is constructed to play low event grind-y hockey down the lineup.

 

[F A N]

Comparing the early part of a 116th overall pick vs a 10 pick is pretty disingenuous. Top 10-15 picks are closer to what they will be when drafted, it’s why they are drafted so high. So talking about earlier in their careers is weird.

Huh? Why is it weird? I'm comparing their NHL careers, not AHL or earlier careers here. I would expect a top 10 pick to get to the NHL quicker than a 116th overall pick, but once they get there I don't see how a later round pick would have some sort of longer runway in terms of developing PK ability. And since you mentioned 116th pick, I assume you're referring to Heinan here. Heinan made the NHL full time in his draft+3 year (age 22). In other words, Heinan became a full time NHL player quicker/similar to Pods.

Furthermore, I would expect that a later round pick who isn't a small skilled winger type to start off as a bottom 6 forward and be a PKer at the NHL level soon after getting to the NHL relative to a Top 10 pick.

For example, Petey (a top 10 pick) didn't start killing penalties until the 21-22 season despite being a C (coincidentally when he was 23, same as Pods).

Meanwhile, Motte (who was drafted 121st overall) killed penalties as a rookie (21 years old).

So far your argument has been mostly because he is younger…and I am just not seeing it.

Huh? You don't see Pods being younger?

The oilers are 21st in PK the Canucks are 12th.

Right so logically you would expect that a penalty killer on the Canucks who is a superior penalty killer to Pods would produce better results right? But Pods has a better GA/60 and xGA/60 than Heinan.

The Canucks went from a team that picked 11th overall to one that was a game away from making the WCF, and that probably sealed Podz' fate. If they had squeaked into or barely missed the playoffs, the team would've probably been ok with not signing Heinen (for example) and being even more patient with Podz. They just couldn't afford to babysit him when the team is constructed to play low event grind-y hockey down the lineup.

I think you made good points here except the "baby sit" part. Like I said, Tocchet's critcism of Pods is that he works too hard and has a tendency to overthink the game so Tocchet wanted him to play more recklessly. This sounds like the opposite of babysitting. Also, Pods does play a grindy game. Take last year, Pods was 3rd in takeaways per 60, 7th in giveaways per 60, 1st in hits per 60. Obviously, Pods also rank high in work ethic and motor.

I think the other thing as well is that the Canucks did pivot. They initially wanted commit money to elsewhere (e.g. Lindholm, Zadorov, Guentzel) which would have made Pods $1M AAV even more attractive.