News Article: Canucks taking a Closer Look at Western Canada Prospects

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Look, I hate Delorme as much as all of you.

But let's not lose sight of the fact that we're getting rid of Harold "we drafted Evan Fuller to protect those Euros!!!" Snepsts. That alone is a positive.

 

[Scurr]

Scouting is a very hard thing for us to judge. We really have no idea how hard our WHL scouts have pushed and for what players. Ultimately they can't pull the trigger to draft anyone, it isn't their call.

 

[I in the Eye]

If he's the best, one can only imagine the rest of the lot.

You're our best scout, Ron... That's why we're counting on you to draft in the late rounds... Our best scout has the best chance to draft the best late round steals... We don't need our best scouts to determine who to draft in the early rounds... We only need great scouts for this... It would be a waste of our best talent, for you to focus on the early rounds...

 

[pitseleh]

Scouting is a very hard thing for us to judge. We really have no idea how hard our WHL scouts have pushed and for what players. Ultimately they can't pull the trigger to draft anyone, it isn't their call.

While I agree with that, what we do know based on past picks suggests that Delorme is an awful scout. It's possible but exceptionally unlikely that the players the Canucks have picked out of the WHL based on his recommendations are just an unrepresentative sample of players he liked.

That said, it's possible that the Canucks have changed their process for scouting, reducing the subjectivity of the scouting process. I can see how in that circumstance it might make sense to keep him around.

 

[Scurr]

While I agree with that, what we do know based on past picks suggests that Delorme is an awful scout. It's possible but exceptionally unlikely that the players the Canucks have picked out of the WHL based on his recommendations are just an unrepresentative sample of players he liked.

That said, it's possible that the Canucks have changed their process for scouting, reducing the subjectivity of the scouting process. I can see how in that circumstance it might make sense to keep him around.

There has to be more to it than that. Mike Gillis isn't a dummy.

 

[Wisp]

The fact that they try to publicly assure the public this is not a demotion of Delorme says to me it is exactly that.

Saving face and all that.


Good news, though.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

The fact that they try to publicly assure the public this is not a demotion of Delorme says to me it is exactly that.

Saving face and all that.


Good news, though.

"We're not firing you Burkie, we're promoting you to a cushy senior advisor job".

 

[ItsAllPartOfThePlan]

There has to be more to it than that. Mike Gillis isn't a dummy.

Exactly. I remember that when Gillis was first hired, he said something to the effect that he was not pleased with the scouting criteria as opposed to the scouts themselves.

 

[Love]

Not me, I question his 'tool box'.

He has tools, and those tools are fantastic, but he I hate to compare anyone to Mason Raymond, but Bowey's puck rushing often ends in a dead play because he is unable to make a smart decision in the offensive zone.

Struggles to make the right reads defensively too.

I personally like Jesse Lees, he's smaller and less 'toolsy' but plays an awful lot like Tanev. Definitely in the running for a pick 3rd round or later for me.

On that topic, if Shaw is your television provider you can watch Kelowna play Portland tonight at 7pm.

Tons of high end prospects for this years draft and next (as well as Severson, who most wanted to draft in the 2nd last year).

Fair enough.

Obviously I see those issues you mentioned, but personally I feel that his upside outweighs those negatives.


Anyway Im going to the Rockets game game on March 2nd against Lethbridge and will be watching Bowey closely. Anyone else I should be looking at?

 

[Lard_Lad]

Not me, I question his 'tool box'.

He has tools, and those tools are fantastic, but he I hate to compare anyone to Mason Raymond, but Bowey's puck rushing often ends in a dead play because he is unable to make a smart decision in the offensive zone.

Struggles to make the right reads defensively too.

I like Bowey more than I liked Damon Severson last year, but that's a pretty accurate assessment. His most likely outcome is turning into something like Bret Hedican - great mobility for a defenceman, but nothing else that stands out at the NHL level.

Still, he's probably the best-skating defenceman in Kelowna since Duncan Keith (not saying he's at the same level, Keith's skating was one of a kind, but he's better than everybody since then.) That kind of skating isn't something you can't teach in the minors, so if the mental side of his game comes around, he could turn into a top-pair guy.

 

[arsmaster*]

I like Bowey more than I liked Damon Severson last year, but that's a pretty accurate assessment. His most likely outcome is turning into something like Bret Hedican - great mobility for a defenceman, but nothing else that stands out at the NHL level.

Still, he's probably the best-skating defenceman in Kelowna since Duncan Keith (not saying he's at the same level, Keith's skating was one of a kind, but he's better than everybody since then.) That kind of skating isn't something you can't teach in the minors, so if the mental side of his game comes around, he could turn into a top-pair guy.

What is your opinion of Severson this year?

-----

Bowey's skating is definitely incredible, but skating doesn't make hockey players. The mental is side is what separates good skating 3rd pair guys and top pair guys.

I'd pass on Bowey in the first, wouldn't be opposed to using a 2nd on him though, depending on who else is available.

 

[Royal Canuck]

The WHL has come a far way in production since the 90's.

 

[canuck4life16]

most of our WHL picks has been bust with exception of grabner......and of course Linden

 

[pitseleh]

There has to be more to it than that. Mike Gillis isn't a dummy.

I agree, though it's not as though he doesn't do dumb things from time to time. If there is anything I could see him making a bad decision based on, it's loyalty.

 

[Lard_Lad]

What is your opinion of Severson this year?

A little better than I expected, but the team's playing so well lately it's pretty hard for anybody to look bad. I still think he's headed for a bottom-pair NHL future, but right now that's looking better than what we seem to have gotten out of the second round.

 

[DustyMartellaughs]

Why are we eating money scouting the West??!! Name me more than 100 decent players that've come from that region in the past twenty years!
Asia. That's where we should be looking.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Michael Grabner is the last WHL pick we had (16th overall, 2006) that has amounted to anything. You have to look pretty far back to find another quality NHLer - as a matter of fact, you have to go all the way back to 1995.

2006:
Michael Grabner
Evan Fuller

2005:
N/A

2004:
David Schulz

2003:
Matthew Hansen

2002:
Rob McVicar

2001:
N/A

2000:
Nathan Smith
Nathan Barrett
Tim Smith

1999:
Ryan Thorpe
Kevin Swanson
Darrell Hay

1998:
Reagan Darby

1997:
Brad Ference
Ryan Bonni
Kyle Freadreich
David Darzugas
Matt Cockell
Rod Leroux

1996:
Josh Holden
Zenith Komarniski
Tyler Prosofsky
Clint Cabana

1995:
Chris McCallister
Peter Schaefer
Lloyd Shaw
Brent Sopel
Tyler Willis

From the time the Canucks selected Schaefer and Sopel in 1995 to the time we selected Grabner in 2006, we picked 20 players from the WHL (not including the 95 or 06 draft). Those 20 players played a combined 384 games, 250 which belonged to 10th Overall Bust Brad Ference.

Urgh. Whatever plan Gillis has in mind for scouting the Dub, I hope it's good.

 

[jigsaw99]

^ yup.
I think our QMJHL is just as bad if not worse.

I find OHL is best place to draft for us.

Our CHL drafting is so medicore.. why are we so bad at drafting Canadians.

 

[TheBleedingEdge]

I would like to know what scout genius had the balls to push for Mallet in the 2nd round...

 

[Bubbles]

Let's be honest, anything after the 3rd round is a crapshoot. Even the better drafting teams like Detroit and Nashville have way more duds than studs.

If anything we should be really focusing on the BCHL.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Maybe this means we will be open to drafting Curtis Lazar?

I fully expect to pick between 26 and 30, and I feel teams will like Lazar enough to take him from 12-20.

Sucks, kid is a beauty.

You guys hit on something here: At least we can now talk about Lazar as a possibility, where before you could dismiss the WHL altogether. IMO, this is what this move signifies: Re-opening the WHL to the Canucks once again.


One reason this makes more sense now is the type of players the Canucks are targeting: Bigger, more robust forwards. The WHL produces these types at a lesser scale than the OHL, but I think they're 2nd in line in perhaps the world... Haven't seen too many bigger forwards from the QMJHL translate to the NHL, but I could be wrong there.


Point being, if you want that type of player, you have to go to the regions this type of player is normally found. The OHL has these types, but it's the most heavily scouted region in the league. Odds are, you aren't getting this type of player in the late rounds from there. Then again, you could if you're BUF and take a chance on Foligno in the 4th round... Anyways, beyond those limited "steals", it's very difficult to stick to one region _and_ get the type of player you want. Enter the WHL. Where some of these types do carve out bottom6 careers in the NHL, and some even higher (Lucic), and it just becomes foolish to ignore that result.


We know Gillis controls the 1st round, so even if Delorme picks there it will have to be "ratified" by Gillis. So you won't get the big misses anymore at the most important position (could still get busts, but not Delorme type flops). In fairness, Delorme hit with Kesler and Umberger at a 1st round position so... Regardless, the best position to use Delorme is in the 3rd round and beyond, maybe even the 2nd. This way, you get his "eye" on the type of talent he was known to target even prior to Gillis coming on board. Then insulate Delorme with confirmation with other scouts you trust, and maybe you get production out of him that is better than anything he has provided before hand. If you don't, well then you have him and other scouts to question, but at least it doesn't completely flop your 1st round picks anymore.


I'm a big fan of this move.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I would like to know what scout genius had the balls to push for Mallet in the 2nd round...

I hated the Mallet pick at the time. I still think Severson would have been the better choice, as many do. However, you can see "why" they took him. Skating, Size, Defensive hockey IQ, good fighter, high production in his 2nd draft eligible year. You aren't likely to get that combination in the 2nd round of a weak draft unless you take an older player like Mallet, and the only place they could take him was the 2nd round.


Even though I dislike the pick, I can reason the "why", which is all one can expect when evaluating scouting.


Fast forward and Mallet becomes a 3rd liner with those traits, Severson becomes a 2nd pair guy with his traits, who do you take? You know Mallet is going to make the opposition's life a nightmare, while Severson is a more passive option.


The Canucks want to take the game to the opposition. Mallet helps that more than Severson does. The only question is the upside. Is Severson a top4? And of what quality?

 

[Ainec]

our scouts suck. period.

Bring up the Sedins, Hansen, Edler, Kesler, Schneider okay sure but that's not going to change my opinion. There have been some very questionable picks

I am impressed with the college scouting though, picking up Tanev etc

 

[Barney Gumble]

our scouts suck. period.

Bring up the Sedins, Hansen, Edler, Kesler, Schneider okay sure but that's not going to change my opinion. There have been some very questionable picks

Sedins......Europe
Hansen.....Europe
Edler........Europe
Kesler.......US
Schneider..US

See a country missing? No, I'm not going all Don Cherry on you but rather look at how many core guys we've drafted from Western Canada...

Not that our scouts outside of Canada are great; but they do seem to be better than our Western Canada, Ontario, and Quebec amateur scouts.

 

[vanuck]

Ontario lately has been looking good for us though.