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Rumor: Canucks: Should I stay or should I go? Pete stays and Miller goes!

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Svechhammer said:
Floated this on the Canes board.

To Carolina
Miller (no retention)

To Vancouver
Kotkaniemi
Roslovic
Suzuki
pick (2nd, 1st is possible with an add from Van)

Suzuki is a very good prospect, will likely get NHL time in the very near future, but just for some reason hasn't been able to crack the code here in Raleigh.
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Nahhhhhh thanks.........I actually like the Rangers offer better.........
 
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Can't help but think if these are the offers that this gets revisited in the offseason when the salary will go up, especially since we know JT isn't being too picky with his NMC.
 
Svechhammer said:
Floated this on the Canes board.

To Carolina
Miller (no retention)

To Vancouver
Kotkaniemi
Roslovic
Suzuki
pick (2nd, 1st is possible with an add from Van)

Suzuki is a very good prospect, will likely get NHL time in the very near future, but just for some reason hasn't been able to crack the code here in Raleigh.
Click to expand...
Can’t see that being enough. Suzuki is not a “ very good prospect “ . I can see the Devils or Rangers offers beating that easily . It’s a soon to be UFA and a Meh/ crap prospect plus a Meh Kotkaniemi.
 
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Svechhammer said:
Floated this on the Canes board.

To Carolina
Miller (no retention)

To Vancouver
Kotkaniemi
Roslovic
Suzuki
pick (2nd, 1st is possible with an add from Van)

Suzuki is a very good prospect, will likely get NHL time in the very near future, but just for some reason hasn't been able to crack the code here in Raleigh.
Click to expand...
Rangers’ offer beats this.
 
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Eggtimers said:
Can’t see that being enough. Suzuki is not a “ very good prospect “ . I can see the Devils or Rangers offers beating that easily . It’s a soon to be UFA and a Meh/ crap prospect plus a Meh Kotkaniemi.
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I'm an Oiler fan that despises the Canucks and even I will say the offer you quoted is terrible for Vancouver.

If they're trading Miller for bits and pieces in-season they badly need to get a blue chip prospect in the package coming back, not a 23 year old AHL/NHL tweener and roster downgrades.
 
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ChaoticOrange said:
I'm an Oiler fan that despises the Canucks and even I will say the offer you quoted is terrible for Vancouver.

If they're trading Miller for bits and pieces in-season they badly need to get a blue chip prospect in the package coming back, not a 23 year old AHL/NHL tweener and roster downgrades.
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They're not going to get a blue-chip prospect back in a Miller trade. And I'm a Canucks fan.

People clearly don't understand league dynamics here. JT doesn't really have much trade value. He's going to be 32, has a large cap hit, has an NMC, and is a known toxic malcontent. Those are all detractors of his trade value.

They're going to lose the trade and management has already accepted that. The main "return" in a Miller trade is that he's no longer in their locker room. Brass decided six weeks ago they have to move him.
 
bossram said:
They're not going to get a blue-chip prospect back in a Miller trade. And I'm a Canucks fan.

People clearly don't understand league dynamics here. JT doesn't really have much trade value. He's going to be 32, has a large cap hit, has an NMC, and is a known toxic malcontent. Those are all detractors of his trade value.

They're going to lose the trade and management has already accepted that. The main "return" in a Miller trade is that he's no longer in their locker room. Brass decided six weeks ago they have to move him.
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He's a four time 70+ point scorer and most recently a 100 point scorer. Is he a toxic little manchild hated by his teammates that's been booted out of every locker room he's ever been in - yes, but he's a deeply talented one. VAN should get more than what is being offered here, but I hope they don't, because it'll be funny and make them worse.
 
ChaoticOrange said:
He's a four time 70+ point scorer and most recently a 100 point scorer. Is he a toxic little manchild hated by his teammates that's been booted out of every locker room he's ever been in - yes, but he's a deeply talented one. VAN should get more than what is being offered here, but I hope they don't, because it'll be funny and make them worse.
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I mean, yes. JT Miller is all of those things. He's also a very mediocre defensive player. But you're still choosing to ignore a ton of other factors that affect trade value (age, cap hit, trade restrictions). If you want to ignore those, alright then. It just shows you don't understand the league.

What team wants to add, in your words, a "toxic little manchild" and pay a premium to do it? No one! They're only adding JT if he comes cheap. Otherwise his antics, cap hit, and impending age-related decline are not worth it.

The Canucks will not get more than what is being rumoured. And again, I'm a Canucks fan. It's not really "funny". It's how the league is, and anyone with a brain should be able to recognize that.
 
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bossram said:
I mean, yes. JT Miller is all of those things. He's also a very mediocre defensive player. But you're still choosing to ignore a ton of other factors that affect trade value (age, cap hit, trade restrictions). If you want to ignore those, alright then. It just shows you don't understand the league.

What team wants to add, in your words, a "toxic little manchild" and pay a premium to do it? No one! They're only adding JT if he comes cheap. Otherwise his antics, cap hit, and impending age-related decline are not worth it.

The Canucks will not get more than what is being rumoured. And again, I'm a Canucks fan. It's not really "funny". It's how the league is, and anyone with a brain should be able to recognize that.
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I understand the league just fine. I just think it's interesting you're rushing to let your front office off the hook for a trade that they're going to lose and have started on damage control mode before it's even made.

Miller scored 100 points last year. It doesn't matter that he's old or a piece of shit, that is worth a lot. Particularly for a team starving for offense and star power. It wasn't that long ago that you lot had him in the same tier of player as Leon Draisaitl, and Miller has been a toxic POS for years now. That won't be news to anyone. You guys also said he was a bargain at his cap hit. His age won't matter to a team that wants to win now. That leaves... what, trade restrictions? Half the damn league has trade restrictions.

And yes, it's funny, as a fan of a rival team it's downright f***in hilarious. If it was us that this was happening to you guys would be downright cackling with glee. It's even funnier now that you're getting so worked up about it in a quest to justify your front office getting fleeced before they've even been fleeced.
 
ChaoticOrange said:
I understand the league just fine. I just think it's interesting you're rushing to let your front office off the hook for a trade that they're going to lose and have started on damage control mode before it's even made.

Miller scored 100 points last year. It doesn't matter that he's old or a piece of shit, that is worth a lot. Particularly for a team starving for offense and star power. It wasn't that long ago that you lot had him in the same tier of player as Leon Draisaitl, and Miller has been a toxic POS for years now. That won't be news to anyone. You guys also said he was a bargain at his cap hit. His age won't matter to a team that wants to win now. That leaves... what, trade restrictions? Half the damn league has trade restrictions.

And yes, it's funny, as a fan of a rival team it's downright f***in hilarious. If it was us that this was happening to you guys would be downright cackling with glee. It's even funnier now that you're getting so worked up about it in a quest to justify your front office getting fleeced before they've even been fleeced.
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No. You obviously don't understand the league. It's pretty clear. Your understanding of players doesn't go any further than looking at the points column on HockeyDB. You're not an informed person. That's fine. You don't have to be. Just stop pretending you are.

I've never valued Miller that highly. People on the Canucks board have taken issue with me for that in the past. I never wanted him re-signed. Looks like I was right all along.

I mean, I get it. You're an emotional fan and can't look at things objectively. Again, that's fine. It just means we can't have a logical or nuanced discussion.
 
bossram said:
No. You obviously don't understand the league. It's pretty clear. Your understanding of players doesn't go any further than looking at the points column on HockeyDB. You're not an informed person. That's fine. You don't have to be. Just stop pretending you are.

I've never valued Miller that highly. People on the Canucks board have taken issue with me for that in the past. I never wanted him re-signed. Looks like I was right all along.

I mean, I get it. You're an emotional fan and can't look at things objectively. Again, that's fine. It just means we can't have a logical or nuanced discussion.
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“I never liked miller so they should get rid of him for beans ha-ha I was right the whole time” proves not only do you not understand the league, you don’t understand sports in general or basic economics. Who’s getting emotional here?

Keep fighting the good fight for your management, oh Great League Understander. I started off rational, you got all flustered and confrontational, and now here we are. For the record, I hope you’re right. Losing Miller for nothing important or valuable would be a huge step back for your franchise.
 
ChaoticOrange said:
“I never liked miller so they should get rid of him for beans ha-ha I was right the whole time” proves not only do you not understand the league, you don’t understand sports in general or basic economics. Who’s getting emotional here?

Keep fighting the good fight for your management, oh Great League Understander. I started off rational, you got all flustered and confrontational, and now here we are. For the record, I hope you’re right. Losing Miller for nothing important or valuable would be a huge step back for your franchise.
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The emotional one is you. Laughably so.

You were never "rational" because you don't understand anything. By your own admission, your only means of evaluating this player is the points column. And you're only judging any trade returns by, again, your own admission, your own emotional fan bias.

Keep trying though.
 
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The wait till off season has some serious perks in it.

If Miller was traded, Pete would have that optic of being to sensitive follow his whole career.
They figure a way to play the season out and that story line fades to black.
Same goes for Tocchet/Miller.

Media has done nothing but attempt to drive value down by leaking Millers supposed limits on making a trade. This is why we see crap offers. Kyper has a legacy of smearing the Canucks and I never understood why. Maybe someone knows?
Not wanting to play in Canada but playing for a Canadian team.
Only on the East Coast well playing on the West Coast
Its to much at times.

We change the optics and value goes up.
Really not worth trading to make a trade if we get concussion cases and failed projects.
 
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