Confirmed with Link: Canucks Re-Sign Dakota Joshua to 4y/3.25m Contract

[Nick Lang]

If they re-sign Zadorov the value in the contract will be based on projecting his future play based on his small sample size playoffs where he was a great number three defensemen. There is definitely risk, but Zadorov is also a giant, physical, good skating defensemen that can move the puck, who is 29. You can't just assume that he is done developing based on past defensemen (who are not comparable to him) that don't develop past 29. That's really the crux of it.

Possible but unlikely regardless of if he is big or hits hard, or is unique or whatever. He doesn't have a great hockey IQ. Ironically one of the best ways to get better though might be through Canuck coaching. Mainly Foote, who has clearly demonstrated this with Myers already.

100% not signing him as a #3 moving forward. That would just be super risky.

 

[David71]

i expected him to not return tbh, the team could have found a joshua type player via trade or F.A used the money to get a top 6 winger and possibly zadorov/dillion. but kudos to mangement for putting pen to paper.

 

[lawrence]

i expected him to not return tbh, the team could have found a joshua type player via trade or F.A used the money to get a top 6 winger and possibly zadorov/dillion. but kudos to mangement for putting pen to paper.

he was trending as a 24 goal scoring winger, at 6'3 205 lbs while playing on the 3rd line. It came down to.

does the coach like him? they really did
did the players like hiM? they do
did the management like him? they certainly did.

do you really really want him back? yes.

more importatnly does dakota want to come back? it also wanted to come back. he could have gotten the same thing on the free agent market and move back to the USA where he can live more exclusively.

I'm ok with him coming back.

 

[F A N]

i expected him to not return tbh, the team could have found a joshua type player via trade or F.A used the money to get a top 6 winger and possibly zadorov/dillion. but kudos to mangement for putting pen to paper.

I also didn't expect him to return but I'm not sure the team could have found a Joshua type player via trade or FA. Not the best version of him.

Forget even about the ability to acquire the player. Who are your comparables that make say less than $2.5M? Joshua was on pace for 23 goals 40+ points. Even if he is closer to a 15-18 goal 30ish point guy, who are his comparables? He also performed in the playoffs which is where players like Joshua earn their contracts.

Marcus Foligno is a comparable and he hasn't come cheap and has less goals and less career points in the playoffs than Joshua in double the games. Lawson Crouse has produced more offensively and also earns more.

 

[Hodgy]

No, that's not what my opinion is. I agree he could theoretically develop into more. I'm saying Allvin isn't going to pay him based on the theoretical possibility that he becomes a #3 after Soucy was ahead of him on the depth chart all year.

My opinion is that he's going to get paid a ~1.5M premium because of size, physicality and general menace. He wants to crush his enemies, see them flee before him and hear the lamentations of their women. That's why he's going to make way more than his on ice play is worth and on our team it'll probably be worth it in the playoffs.

It's easy to forget that a couple months ago the league believed his value at 3.75M to be a 3rd round pick aka the GM's in this league believed his cap hit accurately assessed his play at that amount.

Could he become a #3? He could become a #1 and score 30 goals next year, however unlikely. My opinion isn't that it's impossible, it's that he isn't going to get paid based on those possibilities. He's going to get a huge premium for being a massive physical menace and it'll probably be worth it.

Similarly, Joshua's physicality mitigates the risk his production declines. He doesn't have to have 3.25M production to be worth his deal when he's bringing a big physical element that we need and will pay a premium for.

I know you are painting the old GMs like brutes that make the boards go bang, and I’m not going to dismiss that we see that sometimes (e.g., Gudbrandson), but Zadorov was also just super effective in the playoffs.

But anyway, I don’t really have an issue with your post here. It’s all a matter of evaluating the possibility he becomes a number three.I had an issue with your initial post that implied he didn’t have a possibility of developing:

No one, not even Zad, thinks he's going to be a #3 moving forward.

 

[tyhee]

I just remembered the stretch where Joshua broke his hand and we looked so much softer and somewhat lifeless. He definitely raises the swagger of this team.

That's really the main reason they signed him.

A few weeks ago Tocchet came out and said the Canucks couldn't afford to lose both Zadorov and Joshua. Before that we'd heard Allvin talk of signing the next Dakota Joshua and pretty clearly considering the possibility that he might not be able to come to an agreement with either DJ or Zad.

The sandpaper aspect is also which gives Joshua the value he has. Generally speaking a 28 year old coming off a career year which is very, very much better than his second best season shouldn't get term and be paid on the basis of his one career year. Distinguishing features for Joshua, though, are:

-his toughness
-he's only been a professional for three seasons and has shown improvement from season to season
-having only been a professional for three seasons, his body doesn't have the wear and tear on it that would be the case if he had been playing, firstly a junior schedule as long as in the CHL and secondly the large number of games against North American pros that he would have if he'd turned pro at 20 the way most Canadian juniors do.

Obviously with Joshua, someone who Tocchet really lit a match under to get going, there is a risk in signing him to a four year term in that he could easily fail to produce what he just did in his best year by far. Despite that risk, in all the circumstances and with his toughness it would be pretty much unimaginable to let him go when you could get him at this price. Perhaps more important, in a very short time frame we've seen three players sign for what is less than what they'd expect if they waited a few days to get offers from elsewhere while a fourth player previously made it clear he'd take what he would consider a discount if it would allow him to stay. In a high cost high tax environment in which the coach is far from running a country club that has to be meaningful.

 

[mossey3535]

Toffoli and Lekk? Uh...no.

Toffoli is too slow and showed signs of decline last season. Lekk is not ready.

Willander is going to back to college.

With Joshua locked up, I think they should try him out in an expanded role (top-six, PP1) to try and maximize the surplus value out of his deal.

And there is always the connection with Blueger/Garland they can go with.

It baffled me that they broke the line up in the first place and then basically didn't go back to it. Lindholm had to be shoehorned in. It turned out ok in the playoffs but I wonder where the line would be if they had a whole season together.

 

[Aqualung]

Stop, I just had my vasectomy this morning. I can't handle this anymore.

Quick update: no longer the size of a large grapefruit and I can walk today.

 

[VanJack]

So Joshua and Myers are back; but Zadorov likely gone. In the NHL, 'size' still matters. And on the blueline, it's definitely a prized commodity.

The Canucks still need to bulk up imo. They'll be looking for some value signings and draft picks to hopefully get more sandpaper and grit into the lineup.

 

[Kryten]

So Joshua and Myers are back; but Zadorov likely gone. In the NHL, 'size' still matters. And on the blueline, it's definitely a prized commodity.

The Canucks still need to bulk up imo. They'll be looking for some value signings and draft picks to hopefully get more sandpaper and grit into the lineup.

Not a big enough savings having Joshua and the dumb giraffe costing 6.825 last year and 6.250 this year