Proposal: Canucks-Penguins

[Regal]

I find it funny that you're accusing Penguisn fans of asking for too much when you're giving a comically biased interpretation of the Canucks assets being given up. Hoglander is a "young winger" with 5 points in 31 games this year, is currently on a 21 game pointless streak and hasn't even started a 3x3 extension yet. Desharnais is a "replacement defensemen" yet he's a #7 D signed for $2 million with term that Vancouver is actively looking to get rid of. Yet somehow those two are positive pieces for the Penguins to be getting for Pettersson?

Last deadline, Tanev was traded to Dallas for Grushnikov and a 2nd. D-man Elias Pettersson and a 2nd is about as apples to apples as you can get for that, and it doesn't involve the Penguins taking back a cap dump D or a struggling young forward with a questionable contract. If the Penguins aren't getting at minimum EP and a 2nd for MP, why would they bother trading him to the Canucks? Especially when Vancouver has to dump a shitty contract to make MP's deal work.

Tanev was probably a bit more coveted around the league, but EP and a 2nd seems about right

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

3 million a season isn't too far out of line for a bottom six player. Hoglander has been better than that until this year, too, so this is the lowest his value has ever been, and he's 24,

However, his value, even taking the new cap hit and current performance into account, isn't needing a 2nd round pick, and a bottom pairing D, and a promising prospect to get Marcus Pettersson. Fowler and Trouba just went for far, far less, and Jricek went for a little more then what's being asked for.

Yes, but we'd expect that 30+ year old defensemen on multi year deals having poor seasons would cost far, far less, wouldn't we?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tanev was probably a bit more coveted around the league, but EP and a 2nd seems about right

The defensemen market was also way better last year than it was this year. MP and Provorov are really the only rental top-4 D available, it's an unusually bad market.

Either way, most Penguins fans are expecting a 2nd and B prospect worth of value. That's why I think EP and a 2nd is about right, and I think something like Mynio and a 2nd could even be acceptable as well. But there really isn't much of a supply of top-4 D rentals this year so I think that could inflate MP's value, especially above what's being offered in the OP.

 

[kanucks25]

I think the reason this trade hasn't happened already is because the Canucks don't want an LD.

Wise or not they are content with Hughes - Soucy - Forbort - Brannstrom down the left side.

What they're likely targeting now is an RD upgrade over Desharnais, which is tough because as usual there are like a handful of other good teams looking for an RD upgrade.

 

[Cogburn]

Yes, but we'd expect that 30+ year old defensemen on multi year deals having poor seasons would cost far, far less, wouldn't we?

28 isn't far from 30 though, and it would be a bold argument to say that a rental is somehow more valuable to us then having a longer contract.

 

[Regal]

I think the reason this trade hasn't happened already is because the Canucks don't want an LD.

Wise or not they are content with Hughes - Soucy - Forbort - Brannstrom down the left side.

What they're likely targeting now is an RD upgrade over Desharnais, which is tough because as usual there are like a handful of other good teams looking for an RD upgrade.

With the way Soucy is playing, I think they’ll take what works. It’s not ideal with the Hronek injury but if a LD can stabilize Myers, whether it’s him or Soucy with a new acquisition, it really doesn’t affect the second pair much

 

[Cloudedthought]

I do not see a deal bigger than a second and a prospect level.
Desharnais doesnt need to be part of the deal, he can be dumped for a late pick to someone else thats rebuilding and needs a tall tree.

Hoglander is being squeezed by the coach. He has some holes defensively but think strangling his ice time is not helping him in any way. Strike it up to Tocchet tends to sour on guys and it drives their value down due to how he treats them.
This is a guy that has grind and offensive flashes mixed with a little pest.

I dont think the deal works for either side. Rather work a first for a higher skilled player on the backend. To be honest I dont want anymore Swedes.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

28 isn't far from 30 though, and it would be a bold argument to say that a rental is somehow more valuable to us then having a longer contract.

The diminished value of a 30+ year old having a bad year on a pricey contract beyond this season is because not only are they playing poorly now, but age suggests there's a greater chance of the player being on a downward slope, AND the acquiring team will be on the hook for years.

Pettersson is not only more attractive because of his age, and his better performance this season, but his expiring deal means there's no commitment beyond this year if he doesn't work out for whatever reason. It gives teams wiggle room.

A longer term deal is only more attractive if the player's likely to outperform his contract. Fowler and Trouba aren't. Pettersson is.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I’m surprised that this isn’t enough in your opinion. What are you looking for in a Pettersson deal if a 2nd + young player isn’t enough?

A young player pacing for more than 11 points on the season, presumably. Hoglander hasn’t produced a thing this year, he doesn’t have the value he would have if dealt in the offseason.

 

[Shocker]

Desharnais has no value and if Sullivan doesn't already play Pulju, why would he play Höglander.

Penguins rather trade Pettersson elsewhere alone.

 

[Three On Zero]

Remove VD and this is a really solid proposal

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Take Pettersson out and it might make sense.

 

[Cogburn]

The diminished value of a 30+ year old having a bad year on a pricey contract beyond this season is because not only are they playing poorly now, but age suggests there's a greater chance of the player being on a downward slope, AND the acquiring team will be on the hook for years.

Pettersson is not only more attractive because of his age, and his better performance this season, but his expiring deal means there's no commitment beyond this year if he doesn't work out for whatever reason. It gives teams wiggle room.

A longer term deal is only more attractive if the player's likely to outperform his contract. Fowler and Trouba aren't. Pettersson is.

Being more attractive by merit of being younger has to do with cost control/team control and potential though, and being very close to an arbitrary age that has an expiry date doesn't help his value either. Having no commitment being a selling point would be a plus if we were unsure we wanted him, or unsure if he will continue to play at the level he's playing at.

As an example, our rental players from last year, Zadorov and Lindholm, were made a priority to resign. We paid a great deal for Lindholm, but he had the chops for it, well above Pettersson. Zadorov cost us a 3rd and a 4th, and played the same role Pettersson would be expected to.

Trading three younger players and a draft pick to get a bottom pairing, or low minute second pairing, D makes no sense. If Pittsburgh doesn't value Hoglander, inspite of all the smoke from media, that's fine, but let's not pretend Pettersson is going to fetch a return like Jiricek did.

 

[3074326]

"Why won't you accept the deal that I want you to accept?"