Canucks off season, "go for it" or a painful rebuild.....ugh

[lawrence]

but IF Hughes is traded, would the expert posters still resist a rebuild? o

In short: Canucks fans aren't inherently opposed to a rebuild; many actively craved one recently. Their current skepticism stems from a deep-seated belief, based on years of evidence, that Francesco Aquilini simply will not green light or fully commit to the necessary of a rebuild. They see ownership as the primary barrier to that strategy, not the fanbase's appetite for it.

 

[FilHronek Orchestra]

Double digits! Let's gooooooooo

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Another thread where we can differentiate posters that either live in reality or want to play video games.

Imagine truly believing we need a tear it down rebuild because that's a good vision to win a Stanley Cup in the future.

Yeah.

What we are doing is obviously working.

We even make it to the playoffs once per decade.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

In short: Canucks fans aren't inherently opposed to a rebuild; many actively craved one recently. Their current skepticism stems from a deep-seated belief, based on years of evidence, that Francesco Aquilini simply will not green light or fully commit to the necessary of a rebuild. They see ownership as the primary barrier to that strategy, not the fanbase's appetite for it.

There is a small segment of fans who have been convinced that a rebuild is more dangerous somehow than being consistently the 14-20th best team in the league.

 

[bobbyb2009]

Double digits! Let's gooooooooo

How is there still 2?

 

[FilHronek Orchestra]

How is there still 2?

It's wild. It's like we are in the Coyotes or Kraken forum. I am so team little guy here. Gonna take this one to the moon.

 

[FilHronek Orchestra]

Please continue discussion here. Thank you.

Thread 'Canucks off season, "go for it" or a painful rebuild.....ugh'

Monday at 10:56 AM

kinda long lol

Let me preface saying I am a loyal Canuck fan and believe that EP40 is going to bounce back, but cannot comprehend how far we have fallen since last year. I mean the Canucks were seen as a top 10 team and a fringe contender, with upside and a winger or 2 away. Then wtf the hell just happened??? Demko injured and still out for a good chunk of the year (can he rebound to being a top 5 goalie in the league? I think he can), Dak has testicular cancer and was not the same player he was until about the last 15 of the year. EP40 a shell of himself (maybe injury and not training)...

• tanti9
• Replies: 79
• Forum: Vancouver Canucks

• 

 

[HairyKneel]

When the trade with Tampa happened, did anybody think BOZO JT Miller was going to become (the good) JT MILLER ?

There's a player or two out there whose team can't keep him, for various reasons, and is on the cusp of breaking out with us. Not to mention the pending talent from our (or someone else's) AHL team.

Our D & G, if healthy, are very solid.

Last year's shit storm has blown away. Some new and interesting team chemistry is on the horizon.

Is JT Derek Sanderson.... or Mike Walton?

 

[lawrence]

 

[HairyKneel]

There is a small segment of fans who have been convinced that a rebuild is more dangerous somehow than being consistently the 14-20th best team in the league.

I agree with people in taking a blowtorch to this thing. With competent management it could be turned around in a hurry. Like 3 - 5 years. It doesn't matter what I think. The STH base is as much to blame as the Italians. Luigi gave Fredo the keys to a Mercedes when he should be driving a station wagon with wood paneling. The guy is a jerk. Won't let folks work.

What a shitty owner. Regardless if he spends money. He can't stay out of his own way. I'd rather have Peter Pocklington orNelson Skalbania as owner.

Franklin is a Klown.

 

[racerjoe]

As long as we have a Norris caliber D and this 1-6 defense, blowing it up is insane.

You take the #1 out that leads the league in puck touches, I hate to say it, its time to aim for McKenna. Should Edm rebuild if 97 walks? 100% they should even if they have the 2nd or 3rd best forward in the world locked up. The drop off from Hughes to the current iteration of EP is a canyon. its still a valley if EP bounces back to 95 pt Selke guy. And Demko..... I am not optimistic. I think we are kidding ourselves that canuck fans want to just ice a Jets level playoff team. Without Hughes its moot to call Vancouver a contender in anyway looking at the pipeline coming up.

I just think there is too many variables. We may need to rebuild at that time... maybe we don't who knows. Asses where the team is at that time.

 

[StreetHawk]

There is a small segment of fans who have been convinced that a rebuild is more dangerous somehow than being consistently the 14-20th best team in the league.

Nothing is assured in a rebuild. Could end up with the talent that the Wings got when they were terrible in the early 2020's. Seider, Raymond, Edvinson, Kasper, Danielson, ASP. A couple of very good to great players but no one elite.

Carolina has been consistently good for like 6-7 years now. But, still lack elite talent to get into the finals and even be very competitive in the final 4.

 

[Fatass]

kinda long lol

Let me preface saying I am a loyal Canuck fan and believe that EP40 is going to bounce back, but cannot comprehend how far we have fallen since last year. I mean the Canucks were seen as a top 10 team and a fringe contender, with upside and a winger or 2 away. Then wtf the hell just happened??? Demko injured and still out for a good chunk of the year (can he rebound to being a top 5 goalie in the league? I think he can), Dak has testicular cancer and was not the same player he was until about the last 15 of the year. EP40 a shell of himself (maybe injury and not training) and his "feud" with JT Miller, Hoglander drought and not playing better until the last 15 games or so, Hughes injuries (if he was not injured I believe the Canucks still make the playoffs). Also, bringing in players that were to slow for the game eg. Desharnis.

I do believe that EP40 is going to bounce back as will Dak and Hoggy, but is that enough? I do believe that the Canucks (if they keep their team together) are a playoff team but far away from a Stanley Cup contender. After this years mess I cannot fathom that top UFA's like Ehlers, Marner (not saying we need them) want to come to Vancouver at this moment. Canucks have a solid defense and possibly one of the best goalie tandems in the NHL but are probably at least 3 top 6 forwards away from contending, yikes. I believe management (JR has alluded) this upcoming year will dictate if Hughes will want to resign long term here ( I do not believe that him playing the next year will impact the price teams will pay for him next year). There are so many IFs to make Canucks a powerhouse Stanley Cup contender again. A rebuild would be painful and not always a for sure way to go but looking in the far future if we rebuild now maybe when young players like Bedard and Celebrini are possible UFAs we can entice them to sign here. As much as I want the Canucks to "go for it" every year, I do not see a path to bring the Cup here. Here is a possible roadmap of what they could do:

1. Trade Key Players​

• Pettersson, Demko and Hughes: Trading these stars would be the first step. Pettersson, despite his struggles, still has significant trade value. Hughes, being a top defenseman, would attract substantial offers as would a healthy Demko. The Canucks could aim for a mix of high draft picks, prospects, and young NHL-ready players in return (you could possibly add in Hronek and Graland as well)

2. Focus on Draft Picks​

• Accumulate Picks: The Canucks should prioritize acquiring first-round picks. This would help them build a strong foundation through the draft. Scouting and selecting top talent will be crucial, with the players listed above the Canucks could get a handful of firsts and seconds.

3. Develop Young Talent​

• Prospects and Young Players: the Canucks must keep investing in the development of young players like DPetey, Lekkerimaki and Mancini will be essential. The Canucks need to ensure these players get ample ice time and proper development resources and with more draft picks you have the chance to hit on more.

4. Strategic Free Agency Moves​

• Target Young Free Agents: Instead of signing veteran players, the Canucks should focus on young free agents who can grow with the team, just like Debrusk. This approach helps in building a cohesive unit for the future.

5. Build a Strong Defensive Core​

• Defense First: With Hughes potentially leaving, the Canucks need to rebuild their defensive core. Acquiring solid, young defensemen through trades and drafts will be vital and the Canucks should be getting young players back as well and it is good that they do have some decent young players right now.

6. Leadership and Culture​

• Establish Leadership: Finding new leaders within the team is crucial. Players who can set a positive example and drive the team forward during the rebuild phase will be important. I believe this is crucial, the Canucks need a team identity and have team cohesion unlike the past year.

7. Patience and Long-Term Vision​

• Commit to the Process: Rebuilding takes time. The Canucks must commit to a long-term vision and avoid quick fixes. Patience from management, players, and fans will be key as this will not be easy but is becoming more likely the outcome.

I have always been a Canuck fan but am becoming a realist of where we are at the moment and it sucks because we have arguably the best Canuck ever in Hughes, it's just that we have so many holes to fill offensively and I know we have a strong dcore and possible elite goaltending. While this roadmap outlines a potential strategy, the success of the rebuild will depend on effective execution and a bit of luck in player development and draft selections. What are your thoughts on this approach?

This owner will never hire a POHO and GM with the direction to rebuild.

 

[Luongos Knob]

I say trade away Hughes, EP40, Hronek, Sherwood for at least 5 1sts in 26 and 27 and get the 1st overall both years. Then draft McKenna+Dupont. EZ

 

[lawrence]

Nothing is assured in a rebuild.

Our current situation highlights significant challenges. Over the past four drafts, we traded three first-round picks for four roster players—yet three are no longer with the team. With no guarantees of contention, pursuing an aggressive 'all-in' approach also carries substantial risk. A strategic retool offers a more sustainable path: prioritizing young talent would replenish our pipeline while stabilizing our future.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Nothing is assured in a rebuild. Could end up with the talent that the Wings got when they were terrible in the early 2020's. Seider, Raymond, Edvinson, Kasper, Danielson, ASP. A couple of very good to great players but no one elite.

And risk being back in the 12th - 20th best team like we are consistentlt?

What is assured in staying mediocre?

Carolina has been consistently good for like 6-7 years now. But, still lack elite talent to get into the finals and even be very competitive in the final 4.

Yup.

 

[credulous]

Our current situation highlights significant challenges. Over the past four drafts, we traded three first-round picks for four roster players—yet three are no longer with the team. With no guarantees of contention, pursuing an aggressive 'all-in' approach also carries substantial risk. A strategic retool offers a more sustainable path: prioritizing young talent would replenish our pipeline while stabilizing our future.

they traded firsts for lindholm, marcus pettersson, oconnor and hronek. i know lindholm is with boston now but what happened to two of the other three?

 

[lawrence]

they traded firsts for lindholm, marcus pettersson, oconnor and hronek. i know lindholm is with boston now but what happened to two of the other three?

OUR FIRSTS.

 

[credulous]

OUR FIRSTS.

no which 3 roster players did they acquire and then lose? i know lindholm is one of them but who are the other two?

 

[lawrence]

It

no which 3 roster players did they acquire and then lose? i know lindholm is one of them but who are the other two?

JT Miller, OEL and Elias lindholm

 

[credulous]

It

JT Miller, OEL and Elias lindholm

oh you're a year behind. the 2020 draft was 5 years ago

 

[Bgav]

Yeah.

What we are doing is obviously working.

We even make it to the playoffs once per decade.

They never respond when this is said out loud

 

[theguardianII]

kinda long lol

Let me preface saying I am a loyal Canuck fan and believe that EP40 is going to bounce back, but cannot comprehend how far we have fallen since last year. I mean the Canucks were seen as a top 10 team and a fringe contender, with upside and a winger or 2 away. Then wtf the hell just happened??? Demko injured and still out for a good chunk of the year (can he rebound to being a top 5 goalie in the league? I think he can), Dak has testicular cancer and was not the same player he was until about the last 15 of the year. EP40 a shell of himself (maybe injury and not training) and his "feud" with JT Miller, Hoglander drought and not playing better until the last 15 games or so, Hughes injuries (if he was not injured I believe the Canucks still make the playoffs). Also, bringing in players that were to slow for the game eg. Desharnis.

I do believe that EP40 is going to bounce back as will Dak and Hoggy, but is that enough? I do believe that the Canucks (if they keep their team together) are a playoff team but far away from a Stanley Cup contender. After this years mess I cannot fathom that top UFA's like Ehlers, Marner (not saying we need them) want to come to Vancouver at this moment. Canucks have a solid defense and possibly one of the best goalie tandems in the NHL but are probably at least 3 top 6 forwards away from contending, yikes. I believe management (JR has alluded) this upcoming year will dictate if Hughes will want to resign long term here ( I do not believe that him playing the next year will impact the price teams will pay for him next year). There are so many IFs to make Canucks a powerhouse Stanley Cup contender again. A rebuild would be painful and not always a for sure way to go but looking in the far future if we rebuild now maybe when young players like Bedard and Celebrini are possible UFAs we can entice them to sign here. As much as I want the Canucks to "go for it" every year, I do not see a path to bring the Cup here. Here is a possible roadmap of what they could do:

1. Trade Key Players​

• Pettersson, Demko and Hughes: Trading these stars would be the first step. Pettersson, despite his struggles, still has significant trade value. Hughes, being a top defenseman, would attract substantial offers as would a healthy Demko. The Canucks could aim for a mix of high draft picks, prospects, and young NHL-ready players in return (you could possibly add in Hronek and Graland as well)

2. Focus on Draft Picks​

• Accumulate Picks: The Canucks should prioritize acquiring first-round picks. This would help them build a strong foundation through the draft. Scouting and selecting top talent will be crucial, with the players listed above the Canucks could get a handful of firsts and seconds.

3. Develop Young Talent​

• Prospects and Young Players: the Canucks must keep investing in the development of young players like DPetey, Lekkerimaki and Mancini will be essential. The Canucks need to ensure these players get ample ice time and proper development resources and with more draft picks you have the chance to hit on more.

4. Strategic Free Agency Moves​

• Target Young Free Agents: Instead of signing veteran players, the Canucks should focus on young free agents who can grow with the team, just like Debrusk. This approach helps in building a cohesive unit for the future.

5. Build a Strong Defensive Core​

• Defense First: With Hughes potentially leaving, the Canucks need to rebuild their defensive core. Acquiring solid, young defensemen through trades and drafts will be vital and the Canucks should be getting young players back as well and it is good that they do have some decent young players right now.

6. Leadership and Culture​

• Establish Leadership: Finding new leaders within the team is crucial. Players who can set a positive example and drive the team forward during the rebuild phase will be important. I believe this is crucial, the Canucks need a team identity and have team cohesion unlike the past year.

7. Patience and Long-Term Vision​

• Commit to the Process: Rebuilding takes time. The Canucks must commit to a long-term vision and avoid quick fixes. Patience from management, players, and fans will be key as this will not be easy but is becoming more likely the outcome.

I have always been a Canuck fan but am becoming a realist of where we are at the moment and it sucks because we have arguably the best Canuck ever in Hughes, it's just that we have so many holes to fill offensively and I know we have a strong dcore and possible elite goaltending. While this roadmap outlines a potential strategy, the success of the rebuild will depend on effective execution and a bit of luck in player development and draft selections. What are your thoughts on this approach?

In a build from drafted players? Why this is such an anathema to some people is baffling. They love to talk about how good Hughes, Demko or the old EP40 are but neglect that they came from the draft.

The players you mentioned as trade bait could accelerate a rebuild by a few years.

But even with a rebuild it doesn't mean they would be as inconsistent as the last 10 years.

A rebuild conversation, unfortunately is pretty pointless because the ownership has shown over and over and over again, their decades that they refuse to do any proper rebuild, regardless of how bad the situations get.

Look at the benning era for proof of that concept, it’s never going to happen.

Even if Quinn Hughes is leaving in a couple years, they will trade him next season for a retool package

This ownership? Decades? This group has owned the team since 2004 - 2006. The first decade the team won two Presidents trophies and a cup final, rebuild time?

There is literally not a single franchise or owner in pro sports who would rebuild from the situation we're currently in. It's actually insane that video-game playing fans continue to bring this up as if it's some sort of realistic option. It's totally disconnected from reality and - as someone who hates Aquilini more than anyone - the owner is not to blame for having the team do the obvious thing that every other owner would do in the same position.

This situation? Okay they don't usually wait this long.
The Rangers sent out a letter to fans that they were going to rebuild.
Toronto made it clear they were doing a scorched earth rebuild.
While neither team has won the cup they have been in the show every season following 2 years or less of starting.

32 teams in the league and there are TWO that are made prime examples of a rebuild but most of the playoff teams are ignored.

Colorado did a rebuild and they were much like the Canucks, in the mushy middle, their GM stated the team wasn't good enough to win the cup so they did a rebuild and then won the cup.

For the 2 or 3 failures, that had many different reasons for those extended failures there are 2 or 3 successes. Winning teams are not used as examples of rebuilds because fans might realize their team just isn't up to par.
GM's don't like rebuilds because it could damage their resume's for winning records. Quite often GM's that start a rebuild aren't around to lavish in their success.
When Anaheim won the cup GM Burke gave the previous GM, Bob Murray, a lot of credit for rebuilding that team.
Many other examples, sometimes only a quick tank and then onward and upward.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

They never respond when this is said out loud

Honestly... the debate boils down entirely on lowered expectations.

 

[theguardianII]

Sometimes I wonder about just what are management types thinking? Are they that stubborn as believe they can "think" a group of players into winners? Is it just being snake oil salesmen to excite the FANATICS?

I look at the entire circumstances surrounding this team right now and really wonder what the hell they are thinking.
The room will still be divided, those that didn't like Miller going, those that didn't care and those that had some other opinion, so turmoil is likely and only being human, resentment at trading away a really good player and then expecting more from players that have never achieved those levels.
The likelihood of a Norris dman moving on, that might be remedied soon but if not on July1 then doubt.

Allvin looking like an ass and taking the entire management group down with him. His rookie GM years don't look very good right now.

The good news is the farm and 3rd 4th line and some Defence depth. That Abby is winning right now is great for them but the AHL Toronto Marlies were winners for years and TO sucked.

What I see is a perfect "out".

Announce that there will be short term pain.

That there is a mini rebuild or very short one.

IMHO this takes the heat off the players when losing close games and fans will not expect or be promised playoffs so hard work is more important that the score board.

Fans and media have all year of winning a lottery, some people do the "If I win the lottery" all the time so this could be similar.

It takes the sting out of losing games and future moves of players via trades because it is planned out ahead of time.

They can assume the position that everything was part of a plan to get to a rebuild.

They have a poor year and improve on next year's draft position.

They can target two or three really top level players to replace the core. Or might have another great draft like Gillis's staff did in 2014, the picks after Benning did his, Virtanen instead of Larkin.

IMHO if they come out and state that a rebuild is happening, for what ever reason, it lowers fan expectations, reduces outside pressure, eliminates most criticism of failure or doubt.

They will still be competitive, the defence is not bad and I doubt they will lose as much as in the past but fans will see that as a positive for a year or so, not a negative. it might even allow EP40 time to recover his mojo without being fried all the time for poor or indifferent play.

The two years also is the time when the OEL buyout is at it's highest.

Missing the playoffs will not hurt financially at the gate, if they use an internal cap for two years they can save the same as they would have received. Say they spend 100 million Canadian instead of 130+ million. That 30 million is more than the gate they get for one round of the show.

Of course a big hurtle is Dhali who will spout Twitter posts as being mainstream fan reactions. Most fans don't even use Twitter and it can be filtered. Think on it, there are likely close to 2 million fans in the province, maybe even more, but the 2K that Dhali follows are the most extreme. That's okay, it is his shtick, his being the "Howard Stern" of hockey media.

He/they/some will use the bad extremes as common examples and ignore the successes (3 or 4 to 1), "Oh it will take 8 or 9 years", maybe if never making trades and only building through the draft or making really bad trades as well, he will never admit that it is possible for a rebuild to be successful because then he can "lead" the mushrooms around by the nose.

In fairness the Canucks seem to have shut his show out of access.

But that doesn't mean he should bow down to trying to make every bad move look good or preach panic of a rebuild.

I really think doing a short rebuild (power retool) is the best for everyone, the players, fans and management and turns negativity into a positive in all forms of media. Long term it provides years of watching player improvement.

Most teams are in a rebuild, intentional one, for 2/3 years and back into the playoffs, most teams.