Canucks off season, "go for it" or a painful rebuild.....ugh

[racerjoe]

Yes my wording was an adequate Miller replacement. We never had Pettersson and Miller firing at 100% when it mattered, so if we can get Pettersson back to an 80-90 point pace and find say a 60 point center for the second line, basically an upgrade an Chytil, then that should be good enough to get us back working as a playoff team. Getting another peak Miller that could play happily at the same time as a peak Pettersson would make us a contender.

I would say a 60 pt centre, and another top 6 forward or re-signing Brock and we should be top 1/3 team. Like you said assuming Petey is Elite Pete again.

 

[Bourdon]

I would say a 60 pt centre, and another top 6 forward or re-signing Brock and we should be top 1/3 team. Like you said assuming Petey is Elite Pete again.

We need 3 top 6 forwards. One to replace Brock, a 2c, and a line driving forward. The reason why we could make due with what we had is because Miller was basically an elite 1c himself. People assume Pete just bounces back to 90pt player when healthy, but you underestimate how much having Miller aids in EPs production.

Miller outproduced EP in 5/6 seasons together. Helping out on the PP. Being able to split/draw opposition focus.

Hypothetically:
Debrusk - Pettersson - Brock
Suter - Nelson - Garland

That would be a heinous top 6. Compare that to any team in the top 1/3 of the league and tell me how it compares. People assume we got 90pts and it shouldn't be that hard to make a few additions and we're a surefire playoff team. It's just not how that works.

Good teams don't bother with bad teams down the stretch. And that many points off OT is not sustainable either.

 

[VanJack]

The Rangers offer a cautionary tale on a full-blown tear-down. In 2016, then GM Jeff Gorton wrote a letter to season-ticket holders, warning them of of the Rangers decision to 'blow it up'.

They stockpiled picks between 2016 and 2020 and looked to have one of the strongest prospect pools in the entire NHL. Then, slowly but surely, all the promise was traded or just trickled away. And today, they're left with an aging roster that's got nowhere to go but down.

I suppose they did win a President's Trophy a year ago and got to the Cup semi-finals. But well short of the ultimate prize. Now Gorton is in Montreal--trying to replicate the full tear-down and rebuild. He might succeed this time---but no guarantees.

So the full on detonation and rebuild in Vancouver is something fans should be careful what they wish for. There's absolutely no assurance your team isn't still going to be on the treadmill to nowhere, four or five years down the road.

 

[Bgav]

The Rangers offer a cautionary tale on a full-blown tear-down. In 2016, then GM Jeff Gorton wrote a letter to season-ticket holders, warning them of of the Rangers decision to 'blow it up'.

They stockpiled picks between 2016 and 2020 and looked to have one of the strongest prospect pools in the entire NHL. Then, slowly but surely, all the promise was traded or just trickled away. And today, they're left with an aging roster that's got nowhere to go but down.

I suppose they did win a President's Trophy a year ago and got to the Cup semi-finals. But well short of the ultimate prize. Now Gorton is in Montreal--trying to replicate the full tear-down and rebuild. He might succeed this time---but no guarantees.

So the full on detonation and rebuild in Vancouver is something fans should be careful what they wish for. There's absolutely no assurance your team isn't still going to be on the treadmill to nowhere, four or five years down the road.

Careful compared to what? 10 + years of dog shit? Gorton didn’t even get to finish the job, did amazing in New York and now is doing amazing in Montreal.

Give me a team with a plan to build a Stanley cup contender over a team trying to quick fix every hole on the roster.

Let’s keep missing the playoffs every year and not get any top 5 picks. It’s so awesome!

 

[hookshott]

There will be no rebuild.

Short term plans are the only thing allowed.

Especially when our Team President is in his mid-70's and has no interest in a rebuild as he will not be around when and if they become competitive again.

 

[lawrence]

The team has committed to go to for it while Hughes is here. Management have blown through the few years grace they had to build up the team. They are now in win or bust mode. The one thing they can't do is get stuck in nowhere land and waste another year. If they trade for some good players and win it will justify seĺling futures. If it's bust we get a rebuild one way or the other.

the Win or bust move got us 2 playoff appearances in 10 years, a ton of mediocre finishes, what a joke our ownership is.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Especially when our Team President is in his mid-70's and has no interest in a rebuild as he will not be around when and if they become competitive again.

He will leave in a year or two.

My prediction is his position wont be filled.

Under Aqua there will be no rebuild.

 

[FilHronek Orchestra]

I feel bad this thread doesn't really have any posts compared to the other. +1

 

[VanJack]

Careful compared to what? 10 + years of dog shit? Gorton didn’t even get to finish the job, did amazing in New York and now is doing amazing in Montreal.

Give me a team with a plan to build a Stanley cup contender over a team trying to quick fix every hole on the roster.

Let’s keep missing the playoffs every year and not get any top 5 picks. It’s so awesome!

Problem is, so many of the high first round picks the Rangers collected between 2016 and 2021 have mostly 'busted hard'. A lot of have actually been traded.

I suppose it's possible if Gorton had stayed around, they'd have developed some of these players better. But the point is, collecting a bunch of top-10 picks is still no guarantee you're going to find your way out of the wilderness.

 

[Ninjadude]

I'm going to agree that there is 0% chance of this happening.

However, I have 0 faith in this management group and they are going to mishandle Quinn Hughes and get pennies on the dollar next year if they need to trade him...yeah, I don't think he will resign with the team. I would rather just start selling our assets and getting high draft picks for next year's draft.

Since we are not trading him, i have a feeling that this management group will trade most/all of our young assets and draft picks to bring in veteran help, which will keep us in mediocrity for a long long time.

 

[FilHronek Orchestra]

Traction! This may turn into a contest yet.

 

[AzNightmare]

What I realize is that looking at the type of teams remaining in the playoffs, like Dallas for example, who are arguably quite stacked, is still not even able to compete against Edmonton. Florida is another strong contender that is in the window. And a few other teams that didn't go as far.

Canucks' roster is not anywhere even close, even with ideal moves here and there. If the only two big name players we have is EP (even giving the best case scenario he's a 100pt player), and QH, other top teams with a realistic chance have that too, plus much much much more.

Canucks are incapable with building a legit strong team that has a 3-5 year window of going deep where we can run it back. We're banking on what we did last year, and hope we PDO our way to the cup, then watch it all blow up in one season. Then wait for the next time it happens, like once every decade. And it's not like UFA's are flocking over to sign on this team.

 

[F A N]

What I realize is that looking at the type of teams remaining in the playoffs, like Dallas for example, who are arguably quite stacked, is still not even able to compete against Edmonton. Florida is another strong contender that is in the window. And a few other teams that didn't go as far.

Canucks' roster is not anywhere even close, even with ideal moves here and there. If the only two big name players we have is EP (even giving the best case scenario he's a 100pt player), and QH, other top teams with a realistic chance have that too, plus much much much more.

Canucks are incapable with building a legit strong team that has a 3-5 year window of going deep where we can run it back. We're banking on what we did last year, and hope we PDO our way to the cup, then watch it all blow up in one season. Then wait for the next time it happens, like once every decade. And it's not like UFA's are flocking over to sign on this team.

There really aren't that many teams who manage to make it to the Cup Finals two seasons in a row, nevermind 3 times in a roll. I wouldn't worry about competing with Dallas and Edmonton or even Florida based on how they look now.

The problem is that we lost Miller without a replacement and we're likely to lose Boeser. Will there be a replacement?

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

The only guy I think should be moved is Demko.

It's not because he's bad, it's to free up the cap space and his contract ends coming up.

Unless you are getting an unbelievable return I would not trade any of the following:

- Hughes
- Hronek
- Marcus Pettersson
- Elias Pettersson (D)
- Mancini
- Willander


Demko, this year's first and maybe Lekkerimaki would be my chips.

 

[Bobby Digital]

Problem is, so many of the high first round picks the Rangers collected between 2016 and 2021 have mostly 'busted hard'. A lot of have actually been traded.

I suppose it's possible if Gorton had stayed around, they'd have developed some of these players better. But the point is, collecting a bunch of top-10 picks is still no guarantee you're going to find your way out of the wilderness.

No matter what you do there's no guarantee. At the end of the day you have to do what gives you the highest chances. The consistent best teams over the last 20 years pretty much had all had top 5 draft picks leading the way.

 

[racerjoe]

We need 3 top 6 forwards. One to replace Brock, a 2c, and a line driving forward. The reason why we could make due with what we had is because Miller was basically an elite 1c himself. People assume Pete just bounces back to 90pt player when healthy, but you underestimate how much having Miller aids in EPs production.

Miller outproduced EP in 5/6 seasons together. Helping out on the PP. Being able to split/draw opposition focus.

Hypothetically:
Debrusk - Pettersson - Brock
Suter - Nelson - Garland

That would be a heinous top 6. Compare that to any team in the top 1/3 of the league and tell me how it compares. People assume we got 90pts and it shouldn't be that hard to make a few additions and we're a surefire playoff team. It's just not how that works.

Good teams don't bother with bad teams down the stretch. And that many points off OT is not sustainable either.

With what you are saying we would be an elite team... my comment isn't about being elite but being good. I also think you get to that top 3rd spot, then see what you can add in season... like we have the last two seasons.

While you address the need on fwd, your forget we have improved both in net and on defense.

 

[Raistlin]

Not this again.

Yes there are question marks with this team going into the off season, but also yes there will be a million more "what ifs" if they rebuild now. OP should listen to himself, be patient, when Hughes indicate he will leave, thats when you will rebuild, its likely 1 season away. Or, he stays, and this team is not far from the contenders with the right signings and trade. they need to take some chances like Washington with Dubois, or Fla with Jones... even Forsling! or offer sheets, look at STL's accelerated rebuild.

TBH, you're talking about the offseason, this is where the GM needs to outmaneuver other GMs, is our management team an elite one? I honestly dont think so. they are good not great. its hard to construct an elite team in spite of the talent of management unless a McDavid falls on you, I do believe Allvin works hard and has potential, this team with this management tops out as a good team capable of cinderella runs.

 

[AzNightmare]

There really aren't that many teams who manage to make it to the Cup Finals two seasons in a row, nevermind 3 times in a roll. I wouldn't worry about competing with Dallas and Edmonton or even Florida based on how they look now.

The problem is that we lost Miller without a replacement and we're likely to lose Boeser. Will there be a replacement?

I don't mean literally getting to the finals, but just being in the conversation of actually being realistic contenders. When a team has a window, they give themselves many chances to get there, as opposed to a team that's chasing cinderella runs, just "get in and anything can happen"

 

[F A N]

I don't mean literally getting to the finals, but just being in the conversation of actually being realistic contenders. When a team has a window, they give themselves many chances to get there, as opposed to a team that's chasing cinderella runs, just "get in and anything can happen"

But that's theoretical though. Teams may want to give themselves as many chances to win a Cup but windows can close quickly. Take our own last Cup run. Gillis started believing that the window was open in summer 2010. But even if we're generous since the Canucks were having a good 2009-2010 season by summer 2012 Gillis reportedly wanted to rebuild. That's like 3 seasons if we're generous and 2 if we're pragmatic.

 

[lawrence]

Not this again.

Yes there are question marks with this team going into the off season, but also yes there will be a million more "what ifs" if they rebuild now. OP should listen to himself, be patient, when Hughes indicate he will leave, thats when you will rebuild, its likely 1 season away. Or, he stays, and this team is not far from the contenders with the right signings and trade. they need to take some chances like Washington with Dubois, or Fla with Jones... even Forsling! or offer sheets, look at STL's accelerated rebuild.

TBH, you're talking about the offseason, this is where the GM needs to outmaneuver other GMs, is our management team an elite one? I honestly dont think so. they are good not great. its hard to construct an elite team in spite of the talent of management unless a McDavid falls on you, I do believe Allvin works hard and has potential, this team with this management tops out as a good team capable of cinderella runs.

There won’t be a rebuild. Hughes will be traded for packages which maybe includes a 1st round pick repacked into another trade to keep us competitive.

 

[Raistlin]

There won’t be a rebuild. Hughes will be traded for packages which maybe includes a 1st round pick repacked into another trade to keep us competitive.

i dont want to see that frankenstein team...

but IF Hughes is traded, would the expert posters still resist a rebuild? or are we talking about factoring in Aqua poo-pooing a rebuild of any sort even when the only semi-elite piece left is EP40?

 

[strattonius]

Another thread where we can differentiate posters that either live in reality or want to play video games.

Imagine truly believing we need a tear it down rebuild because that's a good vision to win a Stanley Cup in the future.

 

[Raistlin]

Another thread where we can differentiate posters that either live in reality or want to play video games.

Imagine truly believing we need a tear it down rebuild because that's a good vision to win a Stanley Cup in the future.

hypothetically, do we need a rebuild if Hughes is traded for say Mercer, Hamilton, Silayev 1st. (which is a fantastic return)?

 

[racerjoe]

hypothetically, do we need a rebuild if Hughes is traded for say Mercer, Hamilton, Silayev 1st. (which is a fantastic return)?

i dont want to see that frankenstein team...

but IF Hughes is traded, would the expert posters still resist a rebuild? or are we talking about factoring in Aqua poo-pooing a rebuild of any sort even when the only semi-elite piece left is EP40?

It is more than just what we get though and also where this team is. What if Pettersson bounces back and is a Selke level 110pt beast? Demko fines his form and wins a Vezina? Or any combination of other things.

Asses where the team is at that time then plan.

Just like right now we asses we have the best defenseman in the world, a really good defense and great goaltending... we just need to upgrade our forwards... and a bunch of them.

 

[Raistlin]

It is more than just what we get though and also where this team is. What if Pettersson bounces back and is a Selke level 110pt beast? Demko fines his form and wins a Vezina? Or any combination of other things.

Asses where the team is at that time then plan.

Just like right now we asses we have the best defenseman in the world, a really good defense and great goaltending... we just need to upgrade our forwards... and a bunch of them.

As long as we have a Norris caliber D and this 1-6 defense, blowing it up is insane.

You take the #1 out that leads the league in puck touches, I hate to say it, its time to aim for McKenna. Should Edm rebuild if 97 walks? 100% they should even if they have the 2nd or 3rd best forward in the world locked up. The drop off from Hughes to the current iteration of EP is a canyon. its still a valley if EP bounces back to 95 pt Selke guy. And Demko..... I am not optimistic. I think we are kidding ourselves that canuck fans want to just ice a Jets level playoff team. Without Hughes its moot to call Vancouver a contender in anyway looking at the pipeline coming up.