Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | You incurred Vector's wrath and broke the site.

[andora]

Without a center like Horvat or Miller for Boeser, there isn't a real reason to re-sign him.

Or is suter his new center

 

[Vector]

Tocchet

• Until he is signed to an extension, there will be rumours
• Has not made a decision that he wants to leave Vancouver
• Has a representative named Steve Mountain; same agent as past Canucks and Craig Berube
• Will concentrate on coaching
• Mountain will negotiate an extension right now if the Canucks call
• Canucks have an option year for next season but Dhaliwal doesn’tbelieve Tocchet would be interested in playing under a one-year contract
• Has a good relationship with Allvin & Rutherford; mutual respect
• If he’s available, lots of interest in him
• Believes the Canucks will have to sell the team to Tocchet
• Has been told that “staying in Vancouver can be sorted out under the right circumstances”
• Wonders if Tocchet has already rejected a Canucks contract extension offer
• Sense he gets is that negotiations have been quiet
• If Tocchet leaves, then he’s pretty sure Foote & Gonchar will leave as well
• Would want clarification on the futures of Pettersson, Hughes, & Demko
• Has been a taxing year; was a soap opera at times; tire fires every week
• Some coaches would take less to coach in a more relaxed market compared to Vancouver or other Canadian teams
• Thinks the media has “got to him” at some point this year

Willander

• Contract talks won’t start until his season is over
• Lots of factors at play
• Willander and his family really value skill development
• Doesn’t believe there’s a rush to get him signed ASAP
• Doesn’t get the impression that a contract would have been announced immediately if his team lost yesterday
• Values education and doesn’t make rush decisions
• Pretty confident he will sign after his NCAA season is over; has never heard that he wants to return to college for a 3rd season
• His character is off the charts
• He might start in Abbotsford rather than the NHL

BCHL

• Was told that the budget for one of the BCHL teams is 1.5m
• Will become an older league and won’t get as many older commits
• Mayor of Chilliwack did not attend the press conference for Chilliwack’s WHL team
• Doesn’t seem to be an appetite to rejoin Hockey Canada
• Will still get scouts but less than before

 

[Vector]

Tocchet

• Highly regarded within the NHL
• Mentions the Rangers, Bruins, Blackhawks, and Flyers as teams that would be interested in him
• Is not a free agent nor a lame duck coach due to the club option
• Has been told, in definitive terms by a team source, that the Canucks view Tocchet as their coach for next season and will exercise their club option
• Tocchet doesn’t want his contract situation to be a story while they are in a playoff race
• Is being paid 2.75m and will get a raise on his next contract
• Canucks prefer to sign him to an extension rather than keep him on the club option for next season
• Organization intends to keep Tocchet in place

Willander

• Will try to sign him to an ELC quickly once his NCAA is over
• Seems ready to turn pro
• Canucks have been careful about managing the bonus structure in ELCs
• Usually, 11th overall picks get some performance-based Schedule B bonuses and
• According to a team source, Canucks’ prefer he plays in the AHL and participate in the Calder Cup playoffs
• Canucks’ feel confident they can get a contract signed quickly and have him go to Abbotsford
• Team believes the most beneficial path is to log major minutes in theAHL
• Canucks are confidence he could contribute in the NHL immediately but are already rotating between Pettersson and Mancini while fighting for a playoff spot; want him playing more than 15 minutes a night
• Goal for both sides isn’t for him to make his NHL debut as soon as possible but to be an NHL player next season

 

[Nick Lang]

Score adjusted 5v5, Mancini is running a 40% CF% but a 56% xGF since joining the team. In a small sample I’d bet on the CF% being closer to true talent but we will see.

Ok fair enough, I was misreading the data.

I still stand by needing to see more to commit to him as the starting #6 given the sample size and big variations between the two, but that’s a massive difference from what I first was seeing.

I don't follow the fancy stats at all but by the eye test and watching games there is absolutely no way he's a #6 next year. It's non-sensical. That would be crazy silly with so many other options. Mancini has been very meh and somewhat passable at best. D-Petey playing on his offside is a far better option, and I'm guessing Willander and his game style will be better immediately as well. A minimum wage vet would even be preferred. Mancini needs a year in the AHL and should hopefully be first call up. Forbort is playing his way into a multi year deal probably too rich for our blood. I would willingly pencil D-Petey in as a #6 if we can get a RD Forbort like player next season.

IF and when tocheet leaves. who would you want as the next coach. even though this "core" doesnt deserve another coach, 5th in 5 years or whatever. someone that can bring a bit of offense and defense like alain vignault during his tenure here. go outside the box and look at the swedish league? or recycled coaching carousal.

Sedin's lol? Seriously though I think this guy would be the most obvious for obvious reasons. I guess the Swedish league would be a real possibility. I really hope Tocchet stays though.

Mike Sullivan, Penguins​

Two-time Stanley Cup winner Mike Sullivan is far too talented of a coach to be stuck on a sub.500 Pittsburgh Penguins team. He also served as head coach of Team USA’s roster at the Four Nations tournament and has a great reputation in the league.

While Sullivan insisted in an interview with The Athletic on Tuesday that he wants to stay in Pittsburgh, I don’t buy it.

I don’t think Sullivan fits the timeline of a potentially post-Crosby Pittsburgh team. And Kyle Dubas, who took over as general manager two seasons ago, probably wants an opportunity to hire his own guy for a rebuild period.

Maybe the Penguins axe Sullivan, or maybe Sullivan walks away. I’m sure he’d be able to field offers from a variety of contending teams looking for a stronger voice at head coach.

Either way, it’s unlikely he’ll be staying as the Penguins coach for that much longer.

 

[F A N]

But is Suter "leagues better"

Well I suppose it depends on the definition of "leagues better" but I do think at this point Suter is much better than Domi and Laughton with the caveat that Domi is a better playmaker and would likely produce more points if put in a top 2 line situation for most of the season. But Suter is far better defensively. Laughton to me is an offensive version of Lazar.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

I'm willing to bet Pettersson vs Miller was never even close to as bad as it seemed, and the real drama was Tocchet vs. Miller. The team intentionally inflamed it to cover up what really happened. Some have speculated there was a serious physical altercation right before Miller was put on leave.

 

[Timmer44]

I'm willing to bet Pettersson vs Miller was never even close to as bad as it seemed, and the real drama was Tocchet vs. Miller. The team intentionally inflamed it to cover up what really happened. Some have speculated there was a serious physical altercation right before Miller was put on leave.

Lots of smoke supporting this.

Tocchet asks Miller and leadership group to start pressuring Petey
Miller takes it too far, Tocchet steps in, Miller turns on Tocchet
Miller gets sat for 10 games (internal suspension)
Miller moved
Petey still on the block, because they still aren't getting the most out of him.

 

[ManVanFan]

If the Canucks do keep Tocchet, they really need to get him some help behind the bench. Yogi isn't doing it. Need a Brad Shaw, Scotty Walker, Mike Yeo type coach that can create a game plan and some strategy that isn't the most basic shit anyone has ever seen.

 

[Hodgy]

It would be crazy to re-sign Boeser for his reported asking price. He doesn't make the team any better and his new contract would be a huge roadblock to getting better in the future. He's basically DeBrusk at this point but will command a premium because he was more productive early in his career and has a 40 goal season.

Suter should absolutely be the higher priority. He can play anywhere in the lineup and is a key PK forward. The UFA center market is worse than the winger market so they are unlikely to find an upgrade there. He'll be looking for a payday commensurate to his level of play, but he won't demand a premium.

Fun fact: Suter's 5v5 scoring profile is virtually identical to Boeser's over the past 2 seasons despite having significantly worse linemates.

Ya, I also wouldn't re-sign Boeser unless he takes a massive hometown discount. And I agree that I would prefer Suter. But the real problem is that we have a pretty massive weakness up front in terms of scoring, and our projected 13.3 million dollars in cap space, without Boeser, Suter or Forbort, and another league minimum forward (Raty?), is actually not very much cap space when you take into consideration how much cap space other teams in the NHL have and the resulting hyper inflation of free agent contracts we are likely to see. Posters just see the 13.3 million and think we are in a good situation based on historical contract prices that won't be applicable this summer.

Like I said, you've got like 11-12 million dollars for two forward positions. Suter is going to be, what, 4-5 million? If its five million, you've got like 6-7 million to spend on a winger, and that's going to get you an "impact" winger. It probably won't even get you Boeser.

While I don't think they will go this route, I'd probably rather they just took three games at 3-4 million dollars each, on "buy low" type forwards (whether through free agency or trade), and hope you hit on a couple.

 

[Hodgy]

I meant cheaper on his 2nd contract compared to if we didn't burn a year. 2nd contract after 2 full years of ELC vs 3 full years of ELC.

Are you not saying that the second contract would be cheaper if we burned a year and had a two year ELC?

Because I don't think that's actually. It sometimes ends up being true because the player signs a lower amount contract for term and it bites them in the ass, but again, the player could always just accept their QO and the average amount paid to them over their first "three years" is going to be higher than the three year ELC option, and then they are in the same spot at the expiration of that one year deal as the player that played out the full three year ELC.

 

[Ernie]

Ya, I also wouldn't re-sign Boeser unless he takes a massive hometown discount. And I agree that I would prefer Suter. But the real problem is that we have a pretty massive weakness up front in terms of scoring, and our projected 13.3 million dollars in cap space, without Boeser, Suter or Forbort, and another league minimum forward (Raty?), is actually not very much cap space when you take into consideration how much cap space other teams in the NHL have and the resulting hyper inflation of free agent contracts we are likely to see. Posters just see the 13.3 million and think we are in a good situation based on historical contract prices that won't be applicable this summer.

Like I said, you've got like 11-12 million dollars for two forward positions. Suter is going to be, what, 4-5 million? If its five million, you've got like 6-7 million to spend on a winger, and that's going to get you an "impact" winger. It probably won't even get you Boeser.

While I don't think they will go this route, I'd probably rather they just took three games at 3-4 million dollars each, on "buy low" type forwards (whether through free agency or trade), and hope you hit on a couple.

I don't think that will exist.

I do think that adding Lekkerimaki full time will make up for the loss of Boeser's scoring, particularly on the PP.

I just don't think that Boeser is a big enough difference maker to really make a contract worth it. I'd rather throw a bunch of money at a 30 something vet on a 1 year deal than commit to him long term.

 

[Hodgy]

I don't think that will exist.

I do think that adding Lekkerimaki full time will make up for the loss of Boeser's scoring, particularly on the PP.

I just don't think that Boeser is a big enough difference maker to really make a contract worth it. I'd rather throw a bunch of money at a 30 something vet on a 1 year deal than commit to him long term.

Again, I agree with you on Boeser. And yes, our best chance at improving offense next year is Pettersson and Hoglander returning to form and Lekkerimaki taking a big step forward. And then re-sign Suter (but that contract isn't going to provide much value) and add a 30s something vet like you say, but that player also isn't likely to provide much value or much offensive impact.

If we don't get pretty significant internal improvement upfront, and/or hit biggish on one or more forward acquisitions, this team ain't likely to make the playoffs next year and then you've got a Quinn Hughes problem.

 

[Peen]

Again, I agree with you on Boeser. And yes, our best chance at improving offense next year is Pettersson and Hoglander returning to form and Lekkerimaki taking a big step forward. And then re-sign Suter (but that contract isn't going to provide much value) and add a 30s something vet like you say, but that player also isn't likely to provide much value or much offensive impact.

If we don't get pretty significant internal improvement upfront, and/or hit biggish on one or more forward acquisitions, this team ain't likely to make the playoffs next year and then you've got a Quinn Hughes problem.

It should be said that if they were to figure out a way to add the top six forwards that they need.. they have unquestionably a top defensive group next year and goaltending partnership - assuming they don't shift out any of those guys.

 

[Hodgy]

It should be said that if they were to figure out a way to add the top six forwards that they need.. they have unquestionably a top defensive group next year and goaltending partnership - assuming they don't shift out any of those guys.

I think the highest potential forward line up for the Canucks looks like this:

Hoglander - Pettersson - Ehlers/Marner
Debrusk - Chytil - Garland
O'Connor - Bleuger - Sherwood
Aman - Raty - Lekkerimaki

Lekkerimaki could be switched with Hoglander depending on how each plays/develops.

But, the reality is, we most likely won't get Ehlers or Marner, so you will need to find another top line winger / impact winger.

I probably wouldn't re-sign Suter if we are going for high potential since I don't think he will represent great value

 

[Bgav]

I like how Tocchet's decision to avoid negotiating his contract during the season to prevent any distractions...... Literally the only thing you hear all day on 650

 

[Nick Lang]

They may sign both because they don’t have any better options, but then they are basically bringing back the same group. They’ve got 13.3 million. Take 900k off for Raty, and 1 million for your Forbort replace, and you are down to 11.4 million. And I am not even sure if that’s enough to re-sign both Suter and Boeser for. And you’ve lost Forbort so your PK/blueline is going to take a hit unless one of the young guys can pick up the slack.

A Demko trade could open up some cap space, but frankly, he’s not worth a ton, and 5 million in cap space isn’t going to go far this summer.

The reality is this team is probably going to just continue to struggle to score.

It would be crazy to re-sign Boeser for his reported asking price. He doesn't make the team any better and his new contract would be a huge roadblock to getting better in the future. He's basically DeBrusk at this point but will command a premium because he was more productive early in his career and has a 40 goal season.

Suter should absolutely be the higher priority. He can play anywhere in the lineup and is a key PK forward. The UFA center market is worse than the winger market so they are unlikely to find an upgrade there. He'll be looking for a payday commensurate to his level of play, but he won't demand a premium.

Fun fact: Suter's 5v5 scoring profile is virtually identical to Boeser's over the past 2 seasons despite having significantly worse linemates.

Ya, I also wouldn't re-sign Boeser unless he takes a massive hometown discount. And I agree that I would prefer Suter. But the real problem is that we have a pretty massive weakness up front in terms of scoring, and our projected 13.3 million dollars in cap space, without Boeser, Suter or Forbort, and another league minimum forward (Raty?), is actually not very much cap space when you take into consideration how much cap space other teams in the NHL have and the resulting hyper inflation of free agent contracts we are likely to see. Posters just see the 13.3 million and think we are in a good situation based on historical contract prices that won't be applicable this summer.

Like I said, you've got like 11-12 million dollars for two forward positions. Suter is going to be, what, 4-5 million? If its five million, you've got like 6-7 million to spend on a winger, and that's going to get you an "impact" winger. It probably won't even get you Boeser.

While I don't think they will go this route, I'd probably rather they just took three games at 3-4 million dollars each, on "buy low" type forwards (whether through free agency or trade), and hope you hit on a couple

For all these reasons I think they should not re-sign Suter. We can't keep spending money on bottom 6 players and then complain that the coach isn't coaching offence well enough. We simply don't have the $$ to sign an expensive Swiss army knife even if he's really good at it. The team should be setting it's sights higher even if it will be difficult. I'd rather sign a short stop gap or simply wait until the next TDL or later then commit to a weak plan because we fear we can't do any better.

Like you I definitely let Boeser walk unless he signs an incredibly, incredibly generous deal. I also like your plan of signing multiple cheaper guys who could hit 20 and hope we strike gold on a couple of those. One thing is certain is that they had better be coming up with one heck of a plan to be competitive sooner than later. Like within 2 years.

Are you not saying that the second contract would be cheaper if we burned a year and had a two year ELC?

Because I don't think that's actually. It sometimes ends up being true because the player signs a lower amount contract for term and it bites them in the ass, but again, the player could always just accept their QO and the average amount paid to them over their first "three years" is going to be higher than the three year ELC option, and then they are in the same spot at the expiration of that one year deal as the player that played out the full three year ELC.

This is a case where a high pedigree player potentially grows lineally and puts it all together in their 3rd year. Ideally in this case you would have then already signed them to a more modest deal. Say Willander gets 30 games and 5 points his first year, then puts up 60 games and 10 points his second year. Then in year three he plays 80 games beside Quinn and hits 29 points. In this situation you would have ideally signed him to a lower dollar value after his second "full" season. Otherwise if you negotiate after year 3 in this scenario you're looking at a pretty hefty deal.

 

[Ernie]

It should be said that if they were to figure out a way to add the top six forwards that they need.. they have unquestionably a top defensive group next year and goaltending partnership - assuming they don't shift out any of those guys.

Yeah, and that will have to be the identity going into next season. The team's scoring has improved dramatically since they upgraded the defence. I think they will have to be patient and wait for opportunities.

That said, if Marner or Ehlers fall into your lap, you make that move and don't look back.

 

[Ernie]

I like how Tocchet's decision to avoid negotiating his contract during the season to prevent any distractions...... Literally the only thing you hear all day on 650

As Drance made it clear, it's 99% noise. The Canucks would like to extend him but he still has another year on his deal so there really is no rush.

Local media is addicted to the drama.

 

[brock hughes007]

I hope if Tocchet does leave, it’s of his own volition. I really like him as a coach and most of my complaints about him can be applied to almost every other coach with sustained success in this league. He’s really come into his own and it’s clear the players respect and want to play for him.

We don't have the players that can play his dump and chase system that he likes.
Also his lack of a power play system is one of the worst.I have no problem letting him go..

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

We don't have the players that can play his dump and chase system that he likes.
Also his lack of a power play system is one of the worst.I have no problem letting him go..

He ran a good PP in Pitt, I think the problem with it is too many just try to have everything go thru Hughes and very little movement as a result of 4 guys relying on 1.

D&C is a perfectly good system when you have the foot soldiers. Most of the playoffs are played with D&C minus the skilled guys. Historically speaking. Even the Sedins D&C’d a fair bit during their peak because they were fantastic board players and Burrows/Hansen was money on puck retrieval.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I like how Tocchet's decision to avoid negotiating his contract during the season to prevent any distractions...... Literally the only thing you hear all day on 650

I think that's more for him and the team itself who likely aren't paying attention to the media blabbing about it on podcasts. Part of Pettersson's problem (of which there are many) is he was doing that. Or rather, had people telling him what everyone thought.

There's no need to push for contract talks with Tocchet, Boeser, Suter or anyone else while we're fighting for our playoff lives.

 

[brock hughes007]

He ran a good PP in Pitt, I think the problem with it is too many just try to have everything go thru Hughes and very little movement as a result of 4 guys relying on 1.

D&C is a perfectly good system when you have the foot soldiers. Most of the playoffs are played with D&C minus the skilled guys. Historically speaking. Even the Sedins D&C’d a fair bit during their peak because they were fantastic board players and Burrows/Hansen was money on puck retrieval.

The d &c like I was saying works when you have the players..i agree with what you said when you have the foot soldiers.
We don't have them .so in sense you need to adjust to a different style..He has not done so.Im not the GM..but I'm not a Tocchet fan either.But also realize the choices are limited.

 

[me2]

My iq drops 60 points everytime I sit through an intermission. I've only got 61 at the best of times.

 

[rypper]

Cars don't have antennas anymore, I'm guessing the new age equivalent would be...you grab that $90 Apple lightning charge cable and whip Moleman in the nuts with that.

Or just chuck a football at his groin and record it, you might end up winning a film award.

View attachment 1001195

I guess I'm just old fashioned.

 

[Wry n Ginger]

Given the Sabres internal cap since the owner bought the Bills, I wonder if there are some offer sheet potentials over there? They have quite a few RFA's this off-season don't they?