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ChilliBilly

Registered User
Aug 22, 2007
7,174
4,446
chilliwacki
I was offline most of yesterday afternoon so I couldn't comment sooner—but I really like the day that Vancouver had. Clear vision of what they are trying to accomplish. I really don't get the doom and gloom that twitter (Taj) is proclaiming. This July 1st and last July 1st were so refreshing compared to the clear and obvious mistakes that Benning used to make.

  • The term on DeBrusk is a risk, but as a young free agent, I think there is a ton of upside. Let's not forget that he had that success in Boston despite things not always going smoothly between him and the coaching staff nor always having a quality center. I think there is a lot of potential for him to explode in Vancouver playing alongside Pettersson and with Tocchet's guidance. There is a roadmap for him to elevate his game to the same degree that JT Miller did when he came over from Tampa/NYR.

  • Can't help but recognize that the cap hits of DeBrusk, Heinen, and Sherwood work out to nearly the same cap hit as what Guentzel would've required to sign here. Someone should track the number of points generated by our three signings against Guentzel + TB's 11th forward + TB's 12th forward (because let's face it, if we had signed Guentzel, we're probably filling out our 11th/12th roster spots with $775k players).

  • Love the Heinen and Sherwood signings. Heinen probably starts on Pettersson's other wing, but I really like how you can plug him in up and down the lineup. There is so much tenacity and forechecking available on every line now. I don't see anyone else in the west that will be as much of a pain in the ass to play every night.

  • I look at the moves as management calculating how they need to adjust to beat Edmonton next year in the playoffs. I think they recognize that any path to the Stanley Cup probably goes through them. It's clear to see that they aren't trying to compete in a track meet with the Oilers—not many can against McDavid/Draisaitl—but they believe the philosophy to defeating them next year is to wear them down and stop the puck before it gets up the ice. It's also clear that they made smart investments in the PK (Heinen, Forbort, DeBrusk, Joshua, Blueger) to try and limit the effectiveness of the Edmonton power play.

  • Not how I would've built out the defense corps, but you can clearly see that the organization has confidence that they can transform big, strong defensemen into outsized performers. We saw meaningful upgrades over career norms last year to Myers, Zadorov, Cole, and Joshua. Can't help but think that Foote, Gonchart, and Tocchet, and Canucks pro-scouting saw things that they liked in Desharnais and Forbort that they believe can make them more effective than what they've shown to date. And even if they don't quite achieve that—there will always be a trade market for big defensemen. It's why Erik Gudbranson is still in the league.

  • Like last year, I don't think this team is quite done with its roster construction. They may try and make a trade, or wait late into the summer for a discount free agent signing.

  • Wouldn't be shocked either if they invite a veteran former top-six forward caliber player or two to camp on a PTO: Hoffman, Pacioretty, JVR, Tatar, etc. 95% likely none of them would make the team, but will help create some internal competition in camp.

  • They won't be able to do it all—but areas they may choose to address before the TDL or as a discount summer signing:
    • Another established top-six forward
      • Premium—Ehlers, Laine, Necas, etc.
      • Budget—Sprong, Zadina, Olofsson, etc.
    • Another top-four defenseman, ideally RD
      • Premium—Andersson, Larsson, Gavrikov, etc.
      • Budget—Girard, Maatta, Savard, etc.
  • You have to give to get—five roster players most likely to be included in trades:
    • Nils Hoglander
    • Conor Garland
    • Pius Suter
    • Vasili Podkolzin
    • Noah Juulsen
You can not accrue cap space if you are using LTIR to keep you under the cap.
 

kanucks25

Chris Tanev #1 Fan
Nov 29, 2013
6,919
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Surrey, BC
Overall thoughts:

- Heinen and Sherwood appear to be very savvy depth signings, both will likely outperform their contracts.

- Debrusk signing is a bit risky considering the consistency issues that have plagued him his entire career, but if he plays to his potential it'll be fine.

- Not a fan of a Forbort - Desharnais 3rd pair but as I've said in other posts, I don't think management is done improving the defense (however we may start the season like this).

- I like the overall makeup and depth of the forward group but not as enamoured with it as some others. I think we're still missing a key forward in the top-6. I imagine this will be addressed at the deadline, and we should have the cap space to pull the trigger on it this time around.

Not expecting us to stay at the very top of the league like we did last season but would be disappointed if we weren't comfortably in a playoff spot for the most part.
 

StickShift

In a pickle 🥒
Feb 29, 2004
7,318
6,114
New York
You can not accrue cap space if you are using LTIR to keep you under the cap.
As far as I know they are under the cap now without LTIR? And depending on how they use waivers or waiver ineligible call ups they may be able to paper players up and down on off days to accrue even more cap space?
 

JT Milker

Registered User
Mar 24, 2018
1,569
1,648
As far as I know they are under the cap now without LTIR? And depending on how they use waivers or waiver ineligible call ups they may be able to paper players up and down on off days to accrue even more cap space?
They are under the cap right now by about $250k, they are not operating in LTIR space.

As a few posters have said, they probably need to move Poolman’s contract to really improve flexibility in-season/at the TDL, but they would accrue cap space with the current 23 man roster.
 

Burke's Evil Spirit

Registered User
Oct 29, 2002
21,621
7,872
San Francisco
  • They won't be able to do it all—but areas they may choose to address before the TDL or as a discount summer signing:
    • Another established top-six forward
      • Premium—Ehlers, Laine, Necas, etc.
      • Budget—Sprong, Zadina, Olofsson, etc.
    • Another top-four defenseman, ideally RD
      • Premium—Andersson, Larsson, Gavrikov, etc.
      • Budget—Girard, Maatta, Savard, etc.
  • You have to give to get—five roster players most likely to be included in trades:
    • Nils Hoglander
    • Conor Garland
    • Pius Suter
    • Vasili Podkolzin
    • Noah Juulsen

Good lists!

Given Ottawa's prudent moves yesterday, I'm less bullish on my "Tkachuk will ask out" pre-season prediction. If the Canucks can accrue cap space though, I would love to see the team swing a Konecny+Sanheim move at the trade deadline. Ship out Garland if you have to.

Not sure Suter will be dangled as trade bait but agree about those other names.
 

kanucks25

Chris Tanev #1 Fan
Nov 29, 2013
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Surrey, BC
So Carolina looks like an interesting situation right now. Roughly $18.5MM in key RFA contracts to sign (AFP estimates) and a lot less cap space available than that (~$12.5MM). Hard to imagine Necas returning.

Only way around it would be if they somehow dumped both KK and Kuznetsov.

Either way I don't think we're in the running for him.
 

TruGr1t

Proper Villain
Jun 26, 2003
24,112
8,437
As far as I know they are under the cap now without LTIR? And depending on how they use waivers or waiver ineligible call ups they may be able to paper players up and down on off days to accrue even more cap space?

Yes, and Allvin has repeatedly said they'd prefer to operate outside of LTIR to start the season. So I'd think short of some massive opportunity that has not yet presented itself, they are not adding salary above the point where they'd have to use Poolman's LTIR. They can paper some players down, though, to open up a little more. For example, they could sign a relatively cheap depth puck-moving defenseman and likely find a way to stay below the threshold.
 

Izzy Goodenough

Registered User
Oct 11, 2020
2,816
2,684
Not even considering the 7 pieces your Vancouver Canucks gave up to acquire them to play around 60 games total, they let 2 players go that are better than the ones they signed.

Forget the fact they went to their arch rivals who were Cup contenders even before their signings, if you view it as a trade, Boston got the best players and the Canucks got the most bodies.

How do trades like this usually turn out.
 

Just A Bit Outside

Playoffs??!
Mar 6, 2010
17,318
16,847
I don't understand how anyone can rationalize the Nucks July 1 as good in any way.

Ok? Passable? Understandable given circumstances? Sure. But not good.

They clearly had their money allocated for Guentzel. But that went out the window when Tbay traded for his rights.

I'm fine with DeBrusk. I don't like the term but I get that they had to do it to keep the AAV as low as possible. But I would have expected more upfront if they were allocating say $9.5M for Guentzel and turn that into DeBrusk ($5.5M) and Arvidsson ($4M). Team needs actual goal scorers. This was evident in the playoffs. DeBrusk is more of a "puts in a shift and goes to the right areas" rather than a pure scorer.

So from that perspective, they still need another goal scoring winger in the Top 6.

On defense, they have gone backwards. No way you can have an older Myers in your Top 4 no matter how he played last year. They need another Top 4 dman and preferably RHD.

I assume they had interest in Tanev, but much like the TDL, the price did not make sense. So they pivoted and went for depth instead.

But the backend is not good. People can state the Oilers backend sucks but they have the horses upfront to compensate for it. Nucks don't, especially if Demko continues to be plagued by injuries.

People state we can make trades. What are we trading exactly to acquire what this team needs? Willander and Lekk aren't going anywhere. Can't see them trading their 2025 1st right now either. So you have Hoglander, Pod and maybe Garland. Hoglander's contract makes him more valuable to the Nucks than other teams, Pod won't have much value at all and removing Garland creates a further hole upfront.

So I just don't see it.

And then the comments of "we will just pick up a player at the TDL"? Jesus. That's literally 8-9 months away. You cannot expect this team to play the way they did to start last season. What if they play the way they did in the 2nd half? You're screwed.

So as much as it was fine to do what they did to focus on depth after the Guentzel option disappeared, this team still needs more quality. Right now they have focused on quantity over quality and that will only get you so far.

Team is still a playoff team but they aren't close to contenders atm.
 
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kanucks25

Chris Tanev #1 Fan
Nov 29, 2013
6,919
3,748
Surrey, BC
Interesting note from Drance this morning:

Would we even want Girard? We saw what happened to Hughes in the playoffs, but he was still generally effective and I expect him to learn from it and be better in the playoffs next time. Girard is no Hughes.

And Colorado only has 5 D-men signed with Girard, and that includes the corpse of De Haan.
 
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ManVanFan

Registered User
Mar 28, 2024
510
513
Interesting note from Drance this morning:
Edmonton is over and hasn't signed Dylan Holloway.
Nashville is over at 21 players.
Islanders 1M cap space with 20 players
Ottawa to sign Pinto plus 3 others with 4.4M (a lot depends on Norris LTIR or not I'd guess)
Dallas right side D is Dumba, Lybushkin, Lindqvist LOL
Avalanche cap is complicated to say the least.

in hindsight, I would have done that trade for Walman. Walman could have carried Juulsen on the 3rd pair. He's the same price as Forbort and Desharnais and Canucks could have had a 2nd this year.
 

kanucks25

Chris Tanev #1 Fan
Nov 29, 2013
6,919
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Surrey, BC
People state we can make trades. What are we trading exactly to acquire what this team needs? Willander and Lekk aren't going anywhere. Can't see them trading their 2025 1st right now either. So you have Hoglander, Pod and maybe Garland. Hoglander's contract makes him more valuable to the Nucks than other teams, Pod won't have much value at all and removing Garland creates a further hole upfront.

So I just don't see it.

And then the comments of "we will just pick up a player at the TDL"? Jesus. That's literally 8-9 months away. You cannot expect this team to play the way they did to start last season. What if they play the way they did in the 2nd half? You're screwed.

Picks and prospects should definitely be on the table. Why not? Our window may not be open this year but it definitely will be in the next 2-4 years, not the next 5-7.

If you can get a controlled top-4 D-man or top-6 forward that fits the core age wise with a 1st + 2nd + prospect or something, you do it.

And going into the season with the roster currently as is wouldn't be ideal but I think we have enough depth and good systems play to keep us afloat, not to mention we (hopefully) won't be dealing with the injury issues we had late in the season.
 

kanucks25

Chris Tanev #1 Fan
Nov 29, 2013
6,919
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Surrey, BC
in hindsight, I would have done that trade for Walman. Walman could have carried Juulsen on the 3rd pair. He's the same price as Forbort and Desharnais and Canucks could have had a 2nd this year.

Walman has had one good year in his career and that was alongside Seider.

And he wasn't very good last year.

I'm sure management looked into it when he was made available and they decided he wasn't a fit.

Walman - Juulsen does not inspire confidence, not sure why that is the scenario you were hoping for.
 

ManVanFan

Registered User
Mar 28, 2024
510
513
Walman has had one good year in his career and that was alongside Seider.

And he wasn't very good last year.

I'm sure management looked into it when he was made available and they decided he wasn't a fit.

Walman - Juulsen does not inspire confidence, not sure why that is the scenario you were hoping for.
Because Forbort - Desharnais does?

Do you think if you put either Forbort or Desharnais on the first pair they would do better than Walman did?
 

kanucks25

Chris Tanev #1 Fan
Nov 29, 2013
6,919
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Surrey, BC
Because Forbort - Desharnais does?

Do you think if you put either Forbort or Desharnais on the first pair they would do better than Walman did?

They definitely don't but this way we're more flexible and have more options. Keeps the door open for other moves which I think are going to happen and some media have reported they are still trying to do.

And it doesn't really matter 'cause I wouldn't put any of them on our top pair.
 

pitseleh

Registered User
Jul 30, 2005
19,269
2,999
Vancouver
I don't understand how anyone can rationalize the Nucks July 1 as good in anyway.

Ok? Passable? Understandable given circumstances? Sure. But not good.

They clearly had their money allocated for Guentzel. But that went out the window when Tbay traded for his rights.

I'm fine with DeBrusk. I don't like the term but I get that they to do it to keep the AAV as low as possible. But I would have expected more upfront if they were allocating say $9.5M for Guentzel and turn that into DeBrusk ($5.5M) and Arvidsson ($4M). Team needs actual goal scorers. This was evident in the playoffs. DeBrusk is more of a "puts in a shift and goes to the right areas" rather than a pure scorer.

So from that perspective, they still need another goal scoring winger in the Top 6.

On defense, they have gone backwards. No way you can have an older Myers in your Top 4 no matter how he played last year. They need another Top 4 dman and preferably RHD.

I assume they had interest in Tanev, but much like the TDL, the price did not make sense. So they pivoted and went for depth instead.

But the backend is not good. People can state the Oilers backend sucks but they have the horses upfront to compensate for it. Nucks don't, especially if Demko continues to be plagued by injuries.

People state we can make trades. What are we trading exactly to acquire what this team needs? Willander and Lekk aren't going anywhere. Can't see them trading their 2025 1st right now either. So you have Hoglander, Pod and maybe Garland. Hoglander's contract makes him more valuable to the Nucks than other teams, Pod won't have much value at all and removing Garland creates a further hole upfront.

So I just don't see it.

And then the comments of "we will just pick up a player at the TDL"? Jesus. That's literally 8-9 months away. You cannot expect this team to play the way they did to start last season. What if they play the way they did in the 2nd half? You're screwed.

So as much as it was fine to do what they did to focus on depth after the Guentzel option disappeared, this team still needs more quality. Right now they have focused on quantity over quality and that will only get you so far.

Team is still a playoff team but they aren't close to contenders atm.
I think it’s just the disparity between winning UFA signings and building a winning team. Relative to what other teams have done, the team has probably broken even or had wins on every UFA signing/re-signing they’ve done. There are three or four UFA contracts I would have preferred to what the team did yesterday, and an order of magnitude more that I would not.

But to move to the next level this team needs to find millions more in surplus value. A roster full of fair value UFA deals would be a bad one, and even one where you win every UFA deal by small amounts isn’t a great one.

The team has lost ~$10 million in surplus value just from their re-signings compared to last season. They probably needed another $5-10 million to become a contender.

Some of that will come from the contracts they already have becoming more efficient under a higher cap limit. They probably recouped a few more million yesterday through efficient signings. But they’ve now raised the floor about as much as they can, it’s hard to see the upside with the current group to go much beyond that and hard to see where they will find a clear path to an upgrade.

Sherwood and Desharnais seem like interesting candidates to move up the lineup, but it seem unlikely they will become top level contributors. At this point the team’s best bet is likely to bring in as many projects as they can and hope one hits, like Florida has done so successfully of late.
 

ziploc

Registered User
Aug 29, 2003
7,222
6,004
Vancouver
It wouldn't make much sense to bring in another RD only to sit Desharnais on he bench. Myers and Hronek play every game and Desharnais played 78 last year. But I could see a LD to replace Forbort from time to time as he's had some injuries and performance concerns . It would push Friedman down to the AHL. I think they are more likely to bring in a cheap UFA as compared to trade. Who knows though.

I wanted an upgrade D too but I think this is what we're going with to start the year with. Unless they signed Forbort to be a sub. I hope they told him that if so.
There are some decent Left-handed, cheap, PMDs out there. Maybe that is still their plan.
 

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