Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Playing out the stretch.

[sting101]

Letting Boeser walk......wait for it...wait for it......"we ran out of time"

Our PP is gonna be such a joke. No top line scoring talent a bunch of 170lb wimps

Why did they even bother trying to desperately fix the defence when we wont be able to score when things tighten up

Cant spend 8 million on a 65 pt player who scores clutch goals but we can spend 8.5 on O'Connor Joshua and Hoglander doing cardio from 3rd and 4th lines

 

[TruGr1t]

this is where I am fine with not trading him, if all that was being offered was a second just like what was reported, I don't trade him. Especially after we took less value on a Miller trade, you can't let yourself be pushed around, you have to show a hard line, and that is worth a late second from Carolina.

Very different circumstances with the Miller/Pettersson drama. Boeser it's just apparently the entire league sees the writing on the wall that the guy is a massive contract risk heading into his 30s and nobody was all that enthused about renting him based on year-to-date play at the deadline. I don't think you gain much by taking a hard-line stance on Boeser.

 

[Hansen]

Im gonna need Patrik Allvin face the music after this clusterf*** of a season. Media has to grill him about the roster coming in and the moves or lack thereof

 

[Hodgy]

boeser isn't going to be worth whatever contract he signs but vancouver's forward group is one of the worst in the league without him. it's a pretty big dilemma for management imo

We have one of the worst forward groups in the NHL with Brock Boeser.

I will argue, and did throughout the offseason, that it wasn't incompetence but a calculated risk that they'll be able to acquire the defencemen they need in-season and the offense and goaltending will be able to hold the fort until then. However, both their offensive centres showed up to training camp injured and determined to ruin the season, and then Demko and Joshua also came in to camp unable to play. It was a risk that backfired in the absolutely worst way possible.

And now the defence looks like a strength; personnel, structure, and cap hit-wise.

This is kind of just semantics though. The difficult part of managing a team in today's NHL is managing the salary cap and allocating the right amount of assets and cap space to each position so that you have a well balanced and competitive team. In doing this, a manager needs to weigh the risks and rewards of any decision in this regard. If you are poor at making these decisions then that in and of itself is incompetence to me.. Of course, this isn't to say its a Benning like level of incompetence, where even if you spend cap space and assets at a given position you still fail (e.g., OEL). But it also doesn't mean that it isn't incompetence.

And you can take this even further. Because the actual player personnel part is more of a professional scouting exercise, whereas decisions regarding cap allocation and assets among positions is squarely on the manager. And this is where Alvin screwed up. And it wasn't some unforeseeable screw up or anything - like half the posters on this board new the composition of the defense was going to be a big problem and it was. And this mainly because Alvin didn't allocate enough assets and cap space to defense. Instead, he spent money on players like Heinen, Debrusk, Forbot and Desharnais when that money could have gone way farther if it was spent on "two way" defensemen.

You were not the only one to say, but the decision to not trade Boeser, was just as much if not more based on the Canucks not getting their asking price.

This can be still debated if it was the correct choice, but still slightly different and should be mentioned.

I said it at the time, but it was a bit paradoxical of Alvin to essentially say he didn't trade Boeser because the offers weren't good...because the poor offers absolutely reflected Boeser's poor performance and the lack of impact Boeser was having on the ice. So, sure, you may have only got a second for Boeser, but you also weren't going to miss him much if he was traded. And that's exactly how it played out: we didn't trade Boeser but he also didn't have much of an impact on the ice for us, and to put it another way, the faith of this team wouldn't have been affected if Boeser was traded.

 

[arttk]

I'd love McTavish, but not sure the ducks are interested in moving him.

the only reason why they might even consider moving him is the contract ask. Guessing Carlsson and McTavish will both ask for 9M+ on their next contract.
Add to that Gauthier, Lacombe, Mintyukov will all need a contract soon and I think all of them will get like 7-8M each.

But I think they will be looking to move off Strome first before McTavish and if we have any chance to trade for him, it is because they think their RD depth suck shit and want to balance out the roster and have another center coming up to replace McTavish.

 

[racerjoe]

Very different circumstances with the Miller/Pettersson drama. Boeser it's just apparently the entire league sees the writing on the wall that the guy is a massive contract risk heading into his 30s and nobody was all that enthused about renting him based on year-to-date play at the deadline. I don't think you gain much by taking a hard-line stance on Boeser.

Also replying to @Hodgy

The why we were wanting to trade them was different, but that doesn't mean you can afford to keep getting pushed around in trades. You have to set your price and stay with it as much as you can. It is the sharks circling in this league.

I do think Boeser should have still held more value as a guy who has a track record, and the question should have been more about his health.

Look what he has done for us down the stretch the big goals, that could have really helped a team and someone should have paid up.

 

[arttk]

Letting Boeser walk......wait for it...wait for it......"we ran out of time"

Our PP is gonna be such a joke. No top line scoring talent a bunch of 170lb wimps

Why did they even bother trying to desperately fix the defence when we wont be able to score when things tighten up

Cant spend 8 million on a 65 pt player who scores clutch goals but we can spend 8.5 on O'Connor Joshua and Hoglander doing cardio from 3rd and 4th lines

we never ran out of time with Brock, we had no offers lol.

 

[sting101]

8 million in 3yrs will be the same as 6 million was last summer

I would have zero issues giving Boeser 7 x 8 if push comes to shove. Of course i would push for 6 and if 7 would try to get the AAV down to 7.5. Given Konecny got 64 million he's gonna get at least 50

Just structure the deal to be as buyout friendly as possible in the least year or 2 so it's moveable and he can have 5yrs of a NMC. this group cant be serious giving Lankinen 4.5 and O'Connor Joshua Hoglander 8.5 million and trading to fix our D with a player older than Boeser and then let him walk to go into free agency like Benning with a fist full of dollars about to get manhandled could they?

Could they?

Without Boeser can anyone tell me what our core top6 is and what that looks like league wide...ok i'll answer it.........HORRENDOUS

Just sign the guy and make other adjustments FFS this is stupid

 

[BoHorvat 53]

I’m not surprised on Boeser. Management needs to hit a home run and they only have a couple of swings.


I think you’re right on their thinking, but it was an incredibly risky approach when they were banking on three defenders in their thirties who are probably bottom pairing guys on a good team to maintain their level of play and the fourth guy was a 28 year old with one NHL season. And there was absolutely no depth behind them if anything went wrong, as it inevitably did. If not for Brannstrom clearing waivers it would have been even more ugly.

They also take the blame for not stopping the bleeding when it was clear from the get go things weren’t working as they hoped.

I'd rather them let Boeser walk and not double down on their mistake, so that is a good sign in itself.

I think this team's pro scouting has earned some leeway. Obviously along the way they made some mistakes like the Desharnais signing, but they also made some savvy bets that just didn't pan out (Heinen, Sprong) and some that actually did (Sherwood, Hronek, Pettersson). I actually have some level of confidence unlike in years prior that if we do trade our 1st round pick, it'll be for someone that will be an impactful player for years to come.

 

[ManVanFan]

55-60 point players are first line NHLers, the idea that they were "depth pieces" and we were somehow going to be able to find 2-3 of them in short order is what i took issue with. the only game breaking talent available (potentially) in this years UFA crop is Marner. I kind of doubt he gets to market though. PPG players are rarely available in trade absent a contract impasse or similar.

End of the day, we're going to have a difficult time finding first line players, elite gamebreakers or guys in the next couple of tiers down.

A 60 point forward would be on the very bottom edge of a first line player. The top 96 forwards are .72 ppg, which over 82 games is a 59 point player.

I'm very skeptical of paying Brock 8M a year even with the increasing cap. At 8m he would have the 55th highest forward cap hit in the league. He's 109th in PPG this year. Issue is Stl paid Buchnevich 8Mx6 and Terry 7Mx7

Over the last 5 years. 89th. Around Timo Meier, Val Nuchuskin, Toffoli, E. Lindholm, Terry.

If Benning wasn't so bad at his job, we wouldn't even be talking about this because he would been signed for another 3-5 years at a similar cap hit that he is now.

 

[sting101]

we never ran out of time with Brock, we had no offers lol.

this is BS.....you actually believe that?

they were never that serious about it and were trying to manipulate the negotiations

which in turn left a market not that serious about it. It's also stupid considering why they waited or just didnt take a Toffoli like package vs going to free agency and getting torched worse

Anyone with half a brain can see the cap increase the contracts given to fellow 2014-16 drafted players and this years UFA class and see were not getting deals unless Brock wanted to give them

 

[racerjoe]

8 million in 3yrs will be the same as 6 million was last summer

I would have zero issues giving Boeser 7 x 8 if push comes to shove. Of course i would push for 6 and if 7 would try to get the AAV down to 7.5. Given Konecny got 64 million he's gonna get at least 50

Just structure the deal to be as buyout friendly as possible in the least year or 2 so it's moveable and he can have 5yrs of a NMC. this group cant be serious giving Lankinen 4.5 and O'Connor Joshua Hoglander 8.5 million and trading to fix our D with a player older than Boeser and then let him walk to go into free agency like Benning with a fist full of dollars about to get manhandled could they?

Could they?

Without Boeser can anyone tell me what our core top6 is and what that looks like league wide...ok i'll answer it.........HORRENDOUS

Just sign the guy and make other adjustments FFS this is stupid

I generally agree, but without knowing what the plan is when we are heading tot he off season tough to say what our top six looks like and where it stacks up.

What if Lekk scores 30 next year and we sign both Bennett and Ehlers?

What if we trade for a guy?

What if Chytil stays healthy (that might be the most outrageous of these examples)

The point being we just don't have enough details yet. I want/ed to re-sign Boeser, but when you head to the offseason you still need to see what happens.

 

[Nick Lang]

No, but you also can't be paying 8 mil AAV for a 50-60 point player. It will be unfortunate if he goes, but the teams cap structure can't be wrecked that badly.

Yeah 100%. You can't or rather shouldn't just sign a player to an ugly long contract because you fear you may not do any better. That's setting oneself up to fail.

Not trading Boeser and going into the start of the season with the defense that was obviously an issue is all on Allvin. Those are his failures to own.

I have to disagree somewhat with all the posters that need to try to label this as an obvious failure. I mean it turned out poorly in hindsight and it was a known problem but you can't just fix everything at once either without massive risk. If Allvin would have thrown a bunch of money around on long term contracts we could have been worse with even less flexibility and assets. We didn't know for sure what it would look like and pigeon holing ourselves would have been very risky. We also didn't have the luxury of knowing a JT meltdown would provide us with that valuable 1st in order to address that very need.

Of course now in hind sight we should have traded our pick for Petterson at the start of the year. Even though to be honest I highly doubt Pens do that before they knew what the season would bring. There was nothing that could be done about Joshua getting cancer, Hronek hurt for half a year, or the fact that we had little assets and even less cap space. Demko not playing was huge too The Miller saga also crushed the team from the inside out. I for one was fairly aware that the season could go as it did. I think we're probably in a better position moving forward then if we would have went wild trying to fix the D last offseason. Now our defence is rock solid. Our goaltending is ample for a year. We just need to address the forwards.

 

[sting101]

I generally agree, but without knowing what the plan is when we are heading tot he off season tough to say what our top six looks like and where it stacks up.

What if Lekk scores 30 next year and we sign both Bennett and Ehlers?

What if we trade for a guy?

What if Chytil stays healthy (that might be the most outrageous of these examples)

The point being we just don't have enough details yet. I want/ed to re-sign Boeser, but when you head to the offseason you still need to see what happens.

Lekk scoring 30 is pretty presumptious given he cant even make traction right now

We've already discussed the likelihood of Bennett

Ehlers sure but he's gonna get 70-80 million and has been a ghost in playoff type hockey games injury prone 170lbs

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

8 million in 3yrs will be the same as 6 million was last summer

I would have zero issues giving Boeser 7 x 8 if push comes to shove. Of course i would push for 6 and if 7 would try to get the AAV down to 7.5. Given Konecny got 64 million he's gonna get at least 50

Just structure the deal to be as buyout friendly as possible in the least year or 2 so it's moveable and he can have 5yrs of a NMC. this group cant be serious giving Lankinen 4.5 and O'Connor Joshua Hoglander 8.5 million and trading to fix our D with a player older than Boeser and then let him walk to go into free agency like Benning with a fist full of dollars about to get manhandled could they?

Could they?

Without Boeser can anyone tell me what our core top6 is and what that looks like league wide...ok i'll answer it.........HORRENDOUS

Just sign the guy and make other adjustments FFS this is stupid

We're assuming he wanted to stay. The biggest mistake Allvin has made was not trading Boeser sooner because it did feel like he was a goner. His body language before and immediately after the Miller trade was shit.

 

[PavelBure10]

I would of been happy with a 2nd rounder for Boeser, Anything. To let Boeser walk without acquiring any sort of assets is brutal asset management by the Vancouver staff.

 

[racerjoe]

Lekk scoring 30 is pretty presumptious given he cant even make traction right now

We've already discussed the likelihood of Bennett

Ehlers sure but he's gonna get 70-80 million and has been a ghost in playoff type hockey games injury prone 170lbs

I mean sure... but my entire point is... we don't know yet. I hate that wait and see, but I think in the context you are bringing up we have to.

Yes our offence is currently not looking great, No one would say it doesn't need to be improved, but that doesn't mean keeping things status quo is right either.

 

[sting101]

We're assuming he wanted to stay. The biggest mistake Allvin has made was not trading Boeser sooner because it did feel like he was a goner. His body language before and immediately after the Miller trade was shit.

Can you imagine having your best friend line mate and the teams best player have to be moved because another so called friend can't get along with him. I mean that would require some time to adjust and wrap your head around the "team" wouldn't it.

To play with your father/best friend dying while the team is dysfunctional with wrists that are effecting your #1 weapon

To overcome a serious back injury then 2 wrist surgeries plus concussion while being a good person in the community and teammate and then getting chiselled in contract negotiations to then listen to the GM talk publicly about teams not wanting you

Nobody is gonna want to come here

 

[Canucks LB]

3.5 x 8 for suter lmao
Make it happen

 

[Vector]

3.5 x 8 for suter lmao. Make it happen

You "lmao" but I would seriously consider doing it. Would still probably not be enough to offset the upper end of his comparables.

 

[sting101]

Suter term?

He's averaged 37pts and is older and slower than Boeser

what is going on here

 

[Hansen]

Someone will give Suter 5M or close to it

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I hate the way we've gone around the whole Boeser situation. Awful PR and poor asset management.

That said, I do see a ton of risk with a high AAV term contract. Two-way game is below average and his skating was never strong. You always worry about these slow wingers hitting a wall once they reach 30. By age 30, guys like Phil Kessel and Steven Stamkos were already becoming liabilities 5 v 5 and were only propped up by being next to generational talents.

 

[sting101]

Hopefully not us

Soft slow teams do not need to break out big contracts to soft slow players that score as middle sixers approaching 30

I thought we learned these lessens before

And before we bring Brock into the conversation he has as many goals the last 2 yrs as Suter has points and Suter is shooting an unsustainable 6% higher than his career average and getting usage he wont maintain as the team you would think brings in better scorers

 

[Hughes Clues]

Someone will give Suter 5M or close to it

I'm not so sure