Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Playing out the stretch.

[thecupismine]

Fully agree that management deserves a big chunk of the blame this season. In my eyes, the season went something like this:

1. Implemented new offensive system. Team generates a lot more chances in the first 10 games, but gets continuously burned because the bottom 4 is terrible. Soucy/Myers are getting roasted to the point of being one of the worst statistical pairs in the league.

2. Forwards look great when playing with Hughes/Hronek, but get completely burned when playing with Soucy/Myers or the rotating cast on the bottom pair. Petey looks off to start the year, and it gets x10 worse because he's getting limited Hughes minutes. Old rifts start to open up. Hronek gets hurt, and they have to revert back to the old system because Silovs can't win a game unless its against the Hawks.

3. Team is struggling, so all the old buried conflicts from the Benning years start to rear their head. Petey/Miller can't stand each other, Miller goes off and has to be away from the team, Petey's play plummets after a brief rebound while Miller was out. Vibes are bad, and team effort wanes.

4. Miller dealt, and then they finally fix the d problem afterwards. Boeser's play falls off a cliff without Miller for 20 games, Hughes gets hurt, and the offense dissapears. Nothing happens at the deadline, and while the team's effort gets better, too many injuries/fatigue with Lankinen catch up with them.

If management had fixed the clear puck moving issue on the back end to start the season with a Petterson move, almost all this shit could've been avoided. Team can play to its new structure, the forwards aren't going insane when Hughes/Hronek aren't on the ice, and the beef doesn't explode between Petey/Miller because the team is winning games like last year.

Yes, a lot of shit went wrong this year on top of this with injuries, and you can argue the team should've been more resilient early on, but this whole fiasco started with the overestimation of our bottom 4 after Cole & Zadorov's departure and the fallout from it exploded out of control. They did good work around the edges, but this mistake killed the season.

Alvin & co can't make that kind of miscalculation again, or they're going to be looking for work next summer.

 

[Canucks LB]

It was expected, the Canucks want to look in a different direction, I can’t blame them honestly.

The bigger issue is the trade deadline and the mess up.

 

[quat]

The Pettersson/Miller situation was a black swan event.

Willander's decision to turn pro and how to do it - whether to burn a year by signing now vs signing with Abby now and with Vancouver in the new league year - is run of the mill stuff. His agent negotiating through their usual mouthpieces is as well.

Yes, but I think you forget we've been trained by Benning for eight years as well. Trade your favorite prospects for dreck? Check. Target one of the worst contracts in the league and then pursue with a mono focus for two years until satisfied.

Point being, Canucks fans have experienced enough insane moves through leaks that until a cup is won, that reflexive habit of being terrified by anything related to your best players and prospects is going to surface.

All season, posters have been talking about Hughes leaving. Over that last decade, about 70% of the moves on aggregate have been swans of a darker complexion.

Let's add the non trade of Boeser at the deadline to the pile.

 

[TruGr1t]

No surprises on Boeser, management has not seemed particularly interested at any point.

 

[jd22]

I maintain that this is going to be a big mistake unless the Canucks have some sort of Plan B lined up. This will make us immediately worse, and there aren't many lateral or upgrade options that will be available to us via free agency.

No, but you also can't be paying 8 mil AAV for a 50-60 point player. It will be unfortunate if he goes, but the teams cap structure can't be wrecked that badly.

 

[arttk]

there are a lot of "first line players" that are not close to PPG.

i was responding to this, are you going to argue 55-60pt players are gamebreaking talent.

Our pressing need now is game-breaking talent up front. And that need just gets even more glaring if we lose either or both of Boeser and Suter.

 

[credulous]

boeser isn't going to be worth whatever contract he signs but vancouver's forward group is one of the worst in the league without him. it's a pretty big dilemma for management imo

 

[Nick Lang]

Not sure why people are talking about trading Willander. The right side of the defence is thin past Hronek and an aging Myers. WIllander will be on the roster next season and Mancini will either be the 7D or developing in Abbotsford.

If they're trading a D prospect it'll be a LD, where there is a bit of a logjam now. If EP2 is untouchable (which he should be right now), that leaves Kudryatsev and Mynio as trade options to pair with the 2025 1st for a 2C.

I would say mainly value. I would venture a numerical trade value chart could be something like this:

Willander 82
D.Petey 50
Mynio 30
Kudryavstev 22

I mean EP25 has promising proven pro experience, although it's not nearly as high as some people think imo. He's on about an 82 game, 9 point, -12 pace. However, Willander has way higher pedigree and has had no bumps along his progression. If some team is going to over value EP25 and value them similarly than absolutely that's the right play for us to trade the LD compared to the right.

It would be a shame to mess with such a strong defence but I'd definitely consider trading Willander for one of U25 those players @Vector mentioned. Unfortunately we're so depleted at forward this would quite possibly be a smart re-distribution. It's far easier to fill spots if you don't have gaping holes everywhere.

 

[arttk]

I maintain that this is going to be a big mistake unless the Canucks have some sort of Plan B lined up. This will make us immediately worse, and there aren't many lateral or upgrade options that will be available to us via free agency.

Seems like Brock is looking for like 8m+ x 7 year, or like 56M total money contract. I mean yeah he should try to get that bag but I am not sure we should be the ones handing him that. He's a 60ish point player that can put up 30-40 goals if there is a perfect center for him and I don't think we have the perfect center for him.

The question is, can we pay two players each at around 6.5M and then get like 20-25ish goals from each of them like we did with Debrusk and those 2 guys are faster and can improve the team in different ways.

 

[Attack Vector]

Makes sense to move on from Boeser, he's not built for the direction the NHL is trending towards and that's speed. His skating has held him back and it's better to allocate those funds on a player that can produce the same output and actually have an extra gear when needing to defend.

The reason why no one gave a good offer for Boeser at the trade deadline is because you can just look up his edge NHL stats and see he's below 50th percentile on skating and his shooting percentage is hovering around 18%.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Goodbye Boeser. You were always one of my favorites but it's time to move on.

Wish we could have recouped something in value for him at the deadline so it wasn't all for nothing.

 

[supercanuck]

Makes sense to move on from Boeser, he's not built for the direction the NHL is trending towards and that's speed. His skating has held him back and it's better to allocate those funds on a player that can produce the same output and actually have an extra gear when needing to defend.

The reason why no one gave a good offer for Boeser at the trade deadline is because you can just look up his edge NHL stats and see he's below 50th percentile on skating and his shooting percentage is hovering around 18%.

Surprisingly to me, that's also a description of Suter. However, watching Suter play, it really doesn't feel that way this season. He also has a weak shot. I fear this is his peak and we will be paying for downturn with a big contract.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Fully agree that management deserves a big chunk of the blame this season. In my eyes, the season went something like this:

1. Implemented new offensive system. Team generates a lot more chances in the first 10 games, but gets continuously burned because the bottom 4 is terrible. Soucy/Myers are getting roasted to the point of being one of the worst statistical pairs in the league.

2. Forwards look great when playing with Hughes/Hronek, but get completely burned when playing with Soucy/Myers or the rotating cast on the bottom pair. Petey looks off to start the year, and it gets x10 worse because he's getting limited Hughes minutes. Old rifts start to open up. Hronek gets hurt, and they have to revert back to the old system because Silovs can't win a game unless its against the Hawks.

3. Team is struggling, so all the old buried conflicts from the Benning years start to rear their head. Petey/Miller can't stand each other, Miller goes off and has to be away from the team, Petey's play plummets after a brief rebound while Miller was out. Vibes are bad, and team effort wanes.

4. Miller dealt, and then they finally fix the d problem afterwards. Boeser's play falls off a cliff without Miller for 20 games, Hughes gets hurt, and the offense dissapears. Nothing happens at the deadline, and while the team's effort gets better, too many injuries/fatigue with Lankinen catch up with them.

If management had fixed the clear puck moving issue on the back end to start the season with a Petterson move, almost all this shit could've been avoided. Team can play to its new structure, the forwards aren't going insane when Hughes/Hronek aren't on the ice, and the beef doesn't explode between Petey/Miller because the team is winning games like last year.

Yes, a lot of shit went wrong this year on top of this with injuries, and you can argue the team should've been more resilient early on, but this whole fiasco started with the overestimation of our bottom 4 after Cole & Zadorov's departure and the fallout from it exploded out of control. They did good work around the edges, but this mistake killed the season.

Alvin & co can't make that kind of miscalculation again, or they're going to be looking for work next summer.

What's funny about this is quite a few could see our defence was a major issue going into the season. Sure enough look at the result.

Massive incompetence from management.

 

[M2Beezy]

Brock Boeser

 

[arttk]

Surprisingly to me, that's also a description of Suter. However, watching Suter play, it really doesn't feel that way this season. He also has a weak shot. I fear this is his peak and we will be paying for downturn with a big contract.

Well Suter is not going to cost your 7 years X 8-8.5M, that's a giant difference, you can live with limitation when you pay a guy like 3.5-4.5.

 

[Vector]

What's funny about this is quite a few could see our defence was a major issue going into the season. Sure enough look at the result.

Massive incompetence from management.

I will argue, and did throughout the offseason, that it wasn't incompetence but a calculated risk that they'll be able to acquire the defencemen they need in-season and the offense and goaltending will be able to hold the fort until then. However, both their offensive centres showed up to training camp injured and determined to ruin the season, and then Demko and Joshua also came in to camp unable to play. It was a risk that backfired in the absolutely worst way possible.

And now the defence looks like a strength; personnel, structure, and cap hit-wise.

 

[Attack Vector]

Surprisingly to me, that's also a description of Suter. However, watching Suter play, it really doesn't feel that way this season. He also has a weak shot. I fear this is his peak and we will be paying for downturn with a big contract.

I don’t think Suter will command that much in free agency. He’s a good 3C because he’s exceptionally smart but he’s not a top 6 forward on a good team.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

To me, the cardinal sin of this was bringing a bunch of slugs on D while simultaneously trying to open up the offense. Adding Desharnais, when you already have Juulsen and Soucy, while letting a really good two-way fit in Ian Cole walk, was a tragic mistake.

 

[Vector]

To me, the cardinal sin of this was bringing a bunch of slugs on D while simultaneously trying to open up the offense. Adding Desharnais, when you already have Juulsen and Soucy, while letting a really good two-way fit in Ian Cole walk, was a tragic mistake.

Yeah, I was perplexed by adding both Forbort and Desharnais. At the time I thought Desharnais made more sense than Forbort, although he can in double what I thought his cap hit should be.

 

[TruGr1t]

boeser isn't going to be worth whatever contract he signs but vancouver's forward group is one of the worst in the league without him. it's a pretty big dilemma for management imo

The issue is really twofold ... outside of raw goal totals he's not even a very good fit for the forward group, second, he's never been a burner to begin with and if his speed declines he could become relatively useless pretty fast heading into the upcoming years of that contract.

Not trading him at the deadline under the pretense of some phantom playoff chase that was never going to happen was monumentally dumb when I don't think they had any intention of signing him.

 

[Phrasing]

Not trading Boeser and going into the start of the season with the defense that was obviously an issue and is all on Allvin. Those are his failures to own.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

You don’t consider trading multiple 1st round picks, 2nds, and prospects as bold moves?

Not really.

Bold moves to me is moving legit roster players and blue chip prospects.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I do think Allvin managed to raise the floor of our forward group. Sherwood was an excellent signing, parlaying Heinen into O'Connor was solid as well. And hopefully Joshua is able to more fully bounce back with a full off season to train. And we've got some guys pushing from the bottom, too (Raty, Karlsson, etc.)

Our D and G should also be relatively stable as well, give or take a veteran like Forbort.

Our pressing need now is game-breaking talent up front. And that need just gets even more glaring if we lose either or both of Boeser and Suter.

The forward group overall is faster than it was when he took over in 2022. I'm not denying that.

The issue is dishing out contracts to players like Mikheyev, Lazar, Heinen and Desharnais who were simply bad targets (I was not a fan of Mikheyev aside from his speed). To his credit, Allvin was able to churn out the crap without too much damage.

I have a feeling this FA will play out differently though. The fact Allvin didn't target any college FA's is probably a sign he sees some options down in Abbotsford.

I maintain that this is going to be a big mistake unless the Canucks have some sort of Plan B lined up. This will make us immediately worse, and there aren't many lateral or upgrade options that will be available to us via free agency.

I suspect he knows where he's going and the book closed on re-signing once JT Miller left. Massive massive failure by Allvin not to at least get something back for him.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Not doing anything at the TDL, especially not trading Boeser for anything, is beyond idiotic.

There were some things mgmt could not control.

But there were lots of things this year they could and failed at most.

 

[ManVanFan]

if we end up trading Willander (I hope we don't), it's not because management thinks he's not worth betting on, it's more of a you need to give up value to get value and defense prospect is where we have depth.

I do wonder if they are showcasing Mancini now by playing him way more minutes than DPetey and Mancini is the guy we are trying to use as the trade chip.

Mancini is older and a righty. Most often asking D-Petey to play his off side or Forbort. Mancini last few games been tested out with Hughes as well.

Having strong defence is a good thing, ignoring offence to play defence only turns you into Nashville of a decade ago haha