Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Much Ado About Nothing

[arttk]

Exactly.
Canucks dont have to do anything, both are signed top tier assets teams should be scrambling to acquire asap. But we know gms be dumb.

Hold out for cozens & power, or mitts and ritchie etc , yeah there's drama but not really desperation.


Chinakov is meh, maybe becomes the next Kuzmenko but isn't anything special/desirable on a tocchet team.

See the price high for Petey and use that to drive the other team to Miller.

Also tell teams we are fine holding until offseason because it’s your season that’s on fire and that’s your problem and not ours.

 

[sting101]

Give me Kulich over Sillinger everyday of the week.

Yes well Kulich is gonna be a 1st line C.
And probably flirt with 40 goals Kid is a stud and i've been saying this before the 2022 draft.

Make the deal with Buffalo and get Cozens Kulich Byram for Pettersson Hoglander Lekkerimaki and laugh to the bank.

 

[MS]

I agree with all of that, but the fact he’s been trusted to play tough minutes from ages 19-21 says a lot too.

His first four years look a lot like Sean Couturier’s (tough comp, mediocre defensive results) and you hope Sillinger can break out in the same way.

But you are also taking risk with the player that the offence never comes, like a Manny Malhotra. Which is why I’d want another high end piece coming back if you’re trading Pettersson for him.

Malhotra at the same age range was scoring 10-15 ES points/season. Sillinger is in his second season in the 30-35 point range, which is pretty average for a 2C.

 

[Vector]

I agree with all of that, but the fact he’s been trusted to play tough minutes from ages 19-21 says a lot too.

His first four years look a lot like Sean Couturier’s (tough comp, mediocre defensive results) and you hope Sillinger can break out in the same way.

But you are also taking risk with the player that the offence never comes, like a Manny Malhotra. Which is why I’d want another high end piece coming back if you’re trading Pettersson for him.

What’s another piece on the Blue Jackets that would interest you?

 

[ManVanFan]

He's a -14 because he's a young C playing leverage minutes on a not-very-good team who has gotten unsustainably unlucky results with a 96.6 PDO and a .870 on-ice save%.

This is the complete list of U23 centers (drafted 2000 or later) who are on pace for 40+ points, will take 500+ faceoffs this year, and play more than 1:00/game on the PK :

Anton Lundell
Wyatt Johnston
Cole Sillinger
Logan Cooley

If you add 'on pace for 100+ hits' then it's just Sillinger and Lundell.

Very few players play the sort of role he's being asked to play at age 21. People are getting hung up on 'he's struggling a bit with those minutes' over 'he's an elite player at his role for his age to even be playing those minutes at all'. This is going to be a very good player for a long time at one of the positions/roles that are the very hardest for NHL teams to fill.

Is there anything showing that he is going to break out in that role though other than he is young?

 

[ahmon]

Brayden Schenn has a career shooting percentage of 13.4%. Cole Sillinger has a career shooting percentage of 7.7. Schenn hasn't been in single digits once. Cole has only got into double digits just barely in his first season.

Higher shooting percentage doesn't mean better shot.

shooting percentage could be a factor of like so many things like (quality of teammates, deployment, team strategy - where and when to shoot, quality of goalies faced etc).

 

[sting101]

Sillinger will be an excellent to elite 2C. The fact he's becoming so entrenched in playing as a middle sixer with tough defensive assignments will bode extremely well when he gets a spot with more talented wingers and PP time.

Great player to get back in a deal. Is basically a young Horvat with better defensive insticts

 

[BoHorvat 53]

He's a -14 because he's a young C playing leverage minutes on a not-very-good team who has gotten unsustainably unlucky results with a 96.6 PDO and a .870 on-ice save%.

This is the complete list of U23 centers (drafted 2000 or later) who are on pace for 40+ points, will take 500+ faceoffs this year, and play more than 1:00/game on the PK :

Anton Lundell
Wyatt Johnston
Cole Sillinger
Logan Cooley

If you add 'on pace for 100+ hits' then it's just Sillinger and Lundell.

Very few players play the sort of role he's being asked to play at age 21. People are getting hung up on 'he's struggling a bit with those minutes' over 'he's an elite player at his role for his age to even be playing those minutes at all'. This is going to be a very good player for a long time at one of the positions/roles that are the very hardest for NHL teams to fill.

Again, I question how unlucky those results are when he's on-ice for the most high danger chances against/60. PDO oversimplifies things, sure it could be a little unlucky but he's been largely out of his depth playing those minutes.

Sillinger is on pace for 38 points while all of those other guys are on pace to put up 50+ points, it's a little disingenuous to categorize Sillinger with those other 3, and the criteria for that is very oddly specific.

If he were putting up elite numbers in those minutes he wouldn't even be available, it's just concerning how bad those minutes have gone and for him to jump to the level you're talking about would be a very big jump. I think a Brandon Sutter type of career is much, much more likely in the cards for him - not someone you target for Pettersson.

 

[Bleach Clean]

How? Scoring a bunch of PP points?

High leverage two-way C >>>> creampuff scoring winger. Every day of the week.

Not when that creampuff has more talent than the C could ever hope to have.

CLB would be daft to value Sillinger the same or higher than KJ.

Have you seen him play this year?

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

Yes well Kulich is gonna be a 1st line C.
And probably flirt with 40 goals Kid is a stud and i've been saying this before the 2022 draft.

Make the deal with Buffalo and get Cozens Kulich Byram for Pettersson Hoglander Lekkerimaki and laugh to the bank.

I want Kulich, Byram and Peterka for Petey+. I really like Peterka he would basically replace Boeser. It would allow them to use assets they get from a Boeser trade to help them acquire a top six center.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Columbus really is the ideal team to garner a Pettersson trade return from, them and Anaheim.

 

[pitseleh]

Malhotra at the same age range was scoring 10-15 ES points/season. Sillinger is in his second season in the 30-35 point range, which is pretty average for a 2C.

Malhotra has 11 in 50gp in his D+3 and 13 in 72gp in his D+4 which is more like 15-20.

Sillinger also gets twice as much ice time and is playing in a higher scoring era. Malhotra was only getting 6-8 ES minutes / game, whereas Sillinger gets 13-14.

Edit: to add, Sillinger’s been around 1.7 P/60 the last two seasons. That puts him in the 120-140ish range for forwards who played 1000 minutes last year. So second line production is a fair assessment, though not quality second line production.

 

[pitseleh]

What’s another piece on the Blue Jackets that would interest you?

Voronkov and Mateychuk both seem like interesting pieces. Most of their other players seem like they’d be worth too much as a second piece or not enough.

 

[MS]

Is there anything showing that he is going to break out in that role though other than he is young?

He's playing high-leverage C minutes at age 21 and scoring at a 2C rate at ES at age 21.

Pretty much every player improves after age 21. Again, he's literally one of the 4 or 5 best U23 two-way Cs in the sport, and this isn't really debatable. Virtually no other young Cs in the NHL are playing the sort of role he's being asked to play at his age.

 

[Agent007]

Jackets fan popping by.

I’d personally prefer a Boeser trade to a Pettersson because of roster consideration and other factors.

If it is a Pettersson trade, you’re probably looking at a core of Sillinger + Chinakhov, which isn’t sexy but still probably one of your top bids. Especially since Columbus can easily take the full cap hit. Obviously a first would also be in there (whether our or Minnesota’s is debatable).

what do you think columbus would offer for boeser?

 

[MS]

Not when that creampuff has more talent than the C could ever hope to have.

CLB would be daft to value Sillinger the same or higher than KJ.

Have you seen him play this year?

I've seen about 5 CBJ games.

Prospect fans on prospect boards rate guys like Johnson higher. Actual NHL GMs rate guys like Sillinger higher. C and D have so, so much more value than one-dimensional wingers.

 

[ManVanFan]

Higher shooting percentage doesn't mean better shot.

shooting percentage could be a factor of like so many things like (quality of teammates, deployment, team strategy - where and when to shoot, quality of goalies faced etc).

It generally does.

Shooting percentage won't end him but players that don't have a high shooting percentage if they do end up being first line centers, have become yearly top selke players. Bergeron, Couturier. I don't think he's got that kind of elite defensive prowess in his game.

If he could raise it to 10% get closer to Sam Bennett, Joel Eriksson Ek, Nazem Kadri, Scott Laughton, Mikael Backlund, Lars Eller, Erik Huala examples.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I've seen about 5 CBJ games.

Prospect fans on prospect boards rate guys like Johnson higher. Actual NHL GMs rate guys like Sillinger higher. C and D have so, so much more value than one-dimensional wingers.

If there is any chance Waddell feels as you do and Kent has the same value as Sillinger, Allvin needs to move to get him.

More and more, this is becoming a talent driven league. Prospect board or not, GM tendencies or not, I'd bet on KJ sooner than I would Sillinger. 10 times out of 10.

You overvalue pedestrian talent so long as it has positional value, imo.

 

[sting101]

I think your underselling KJ.

 

[ManVanFan]

I've seen about 5 CBJ games.

Prospect fans on prospect boards rate guys like Johnson higher. Actual NHL GMs rate guys like Sillinger higher. C and D have so, so much more value than one-dimensional wingers.

You know they were in the same draft and Johnson was drafted 5th and Sillinger 12th right. So ACTUAL NHL GM's and scouts rated a guy like Johnson higher than Sillinger.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

EP and JT for Sillinger and KJ. Get it done, Pat.

 

[ManVanFan]

He's playing high-leverage C minutes at age 21 and scoring at a 2C rate at ES at age 21.

Pretty much every player improves after age 21. Again, he's literally one of the 4 or 5 best U23 two-way Cs in the sport, and this isn't really debatable. Virtually no other young Cs in the NHL are playing the sort of role he's being asked to play at his age.

He's really struggling in that role.

 

[ahmon]

It generally does.

Shooting percentage won't end him but players that don't have a high shooting percentage if they do end up being first line centers, have become yearly top selke players. Bergeron, Couturier. I don't think he's got that kind of elite defensive prowess in his game.

If he could raise it to 10% get closer to Sam Bennett, Joel Eriksson Ek, Nazem Kadri, Scott Laughton, Mikael Backlund, Lars Eller, Erik Huala examples.

No it doesn't.

Henrik Sedin career shooting percentage is like 12.9%

Daniel Sedin career shooting percentage is like 11.3%

Anyone who have watched them knows how bad Henrik's shot is, at times he looks like he sweeping the puck with a broken broom.

shooting percentage is not even a lazy way to compare shooting ability, its flat out wrong.

 

[MS]

If there is any chance Waddell feels as you do and Kent has the same value as Sillinger, Allvin needs to move to get him.

More and more, this is becoming a talent driven league. Prospect board or not, GM tendencies or not, I'd bet on KJ sooner than I would Sillinger. 10 times out of 10.

You overvalue pedestrian talent so long as it has positional value, imo.

I disagree completely. It's becoming more and more of a positionally driven and systems-driven league and the values GMs put on leverage D and C relative to scoring wingers reflect this.

Teams are built through the middle of the ice on leverage players. If you don't have two-way Cs who can play leverage minutes, you're f***ed. And these guys are nearly impossible to find.

Johnson is a nice player. He'd probably be a nice Boeser replacement. He'll probably have some 30-goal NHL seasons. But he isn't an elite talent or a superstar and Sillinger is the better asset.

You know they were in the same draft and Johnson was drafted 5th and Sillinger 12th right. So ACTUAL NHL GM's and scouts rated a guy like Johnson higher than Sillinger.

The non-season when Johnson was still playing C? Doesn't really have any relevance to right now.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

KJ is a much better player than Sillinger.

It’s not even close.