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[supercanuck]

Multiple commentators have said it isn't "bullying" (Sat and Jannik Hansen most recently), and most say it isn't an isolated incident but basically a bunch of small things that have snowballed over time and made it untenable. While this is third-party information, obviously, this sounds like a lot of divorces I've seen in my life, honestly. It isn't always some overt thing, but growing resentment and then you just hate the person.

Now, I'll also say "bullying" is a pretty tricky term in hockey where you have a bunch of aggressive dudes playing a contact sport. I mean teammates fight in practice fairly regularly and stuff, so it's a pretty slippery term unless you have some sort of overt, repeated incidences.

Richardson was here for 14 games and he felt compelled to tell JT he needed to dial it down. Imagine what it's like dealing with that for 4 years. This fanbase is bending over backwards to victim blame and support the aggressor.

In fact, what Richardson suggested would happen if JT didn't stop is probably exactly what happened.

 

[theguardianII]

The funny part about this whole situation is JT and Pettersson both wearing A's, then we got management whispering in the medias ear. How does this make any sense? Canucks management is to blame for all of this, although I personally believe JT really does like it here and the media leaks were to try and force his hand to waive his NTM.

Allvin!
Rutherford doesn't run the team, Allvin decides on contracts and player selections for Tocchet.

Rutherford had to support Allvin or fire him.

This "must win a trade" is just coming from the media. The friggin team has only 18 RWs in 49 games with all these super stars playing.
All this chat about keeping Hughes here without any idea's of how. How do they make him decide to not play with his brothers on a cup contending team?
After 7 years how to make this team into Colorado in one year? Two years? But never any chat about how.

Players move on or retire, the team stays.
So what is better twist all the moves to try to create hope of re-signing Hughes or just build a contending team that last a decade or longer? How do they convince Hughes that all the heat of the last 7years is good? The record of the last 7 years doesn't mean anything?
OR
Is it better to make the plan for when he isn't here anymore? That can be done and if needed changed but having the plan for that day is certainty.

 

[Quinning]

Multiple commentators have said it isn't "bullying" (Sat and Jannik Hansen most recently), and most say it isn't an isolated incident but basically a bunch of small things that have snowballed over time and made it untenable. While this is third-party information, obviously, this sounds like a lot of divorces I've seen in my life, honestly. It isn't always some overt thing, but growing resentment and then you just hate the person.

Now, I'll also say "bullying" is a pretty tricky term in hockey where you have a bunch of aggressive dudes playing a contact sport. I mean teammates fight in practice fairly regularly and stuff, so it's a pretty slippery term unless you have some sort of overt, repeated incidences.

A bunch of the same people have noted, if it was overt bullying or sort of misconduct by Miller, the organization would have to handle it differently and in all likelihood the PA would get involved.

If someone publicly or behind closed doors chooses to single out one particular individual, scrutinize their performance to the nth degree, call them out in front of teammates, and grind them into the dirt for the sake of "holding them accountable" - that is bullying, plain and simple. It's chronic harassment at the very least. Managers do it all the time.

This type of behavior gets overlooked for the sake of productivity and winning at all costs. I've been on so many sales teams where it happens openly, people pick favorites and it escalates. High performers get away with f***ing murder in these environments. It only becomes a problem when the person being harassed notifies HR, and then suddenly it's a top priority because they've opened themselves up for a lawsuit.

I'm willing to bet that Tocchet was brought up playing on teams where this was not only acceptable, but encouraged for the sake of winning. That mindset is incredibly toxic and needs to go away forever. I see him as a contributor to things getting to this point, and to be perfectly clear, this should cost him his job. He failed to act and de-escalate this when it was a well known problem. The worst part is that Miller isn't even a manager, they just stupidly gave him an A and let him run the show without monitoring what was going on.

None of this is proven and who knows if it ever will be. It's my opinion

 

[I am toxic]

Not what I'm doing here - let me be clear, I'm sympathizing with Pettersson. Despite the money, he's a 25 year old kid in a foreign country who is likely getting abused by a sociopathic asshole that has never been held in check his entire life.

Thank you for clarifying your position.

 

[JT Milker]

Makes you realize (/remember) how gross "hockey culture" can be.

Who wouldn’t want to be anally probed for the sake of team bonding.

 

[ManVanFan]

No, I agree with you. Again, as I've been on my "management has refused to take any accountability" soapbox, here is another situation where management refuses to actually do anything to improve the situation. 100% Miller didn't actually do anything to improve himself, like therapy, during his LOA. And rather than letting the feud fester, management could actually bring in some external professional to deal with conflict management. Did they do that? Absolutely not. At the very least, Allvin/JR should be sitting them all down. But the official word we've heard from JR is that he wanted it solved by Miller barking at Petey even more.

Petey's boat ride interview with Friedman in the summer. Petey's mentions exactly what Tocchet and management want from him. He straight up says that it's not really who he is. He's working on getting better at the things they want from him. It's not going to happen over night or if you are being bullied into it.

 

[TruGr1t]

If someone publicly or behind closed doors chooses to single out one particular individual, scrutinize their performance to the nth degree, call them out in front of teammates, and grind them into the dirt for the sake of "holding them accountable" - that is bullying, plain and simple. It's chronic harassment at the very least. Managers do it all the time.

JT isn't even a manager, they just stupidly gave him an A and let him run the show without monitoring what was going on.

This is completely hypothetical, because you, nor I, has any idea. I just find it hard to believe this monster has been terrorizing the dressing room for X years and no one has filed a complaint, there has been no mediation, there has been nothing that would lead you to believe the situation is that sensational. In all likelihood, this is a lot more boring than people think. This has also included two entire front offices, and four vastly different coaching staffs. I also find it hard to believe all these people are complicit in covering up some huge degree of misconduct.

 

[ManVanFan]

Multiple commentators have said it isn't "bullying" (Sat and Jannik Hansen most recently), and most say it isn't an isolated incident but basically a bunch of small things that have snowballed over time and made it untenable. While this is third-party information, obviously, this sounds like a lot of divorces I've seen in my life, honestly. It isn't always some overt thing, but growing resentment and then you just hate the person.

Now, I'll also say "bullying" is a pretty tricky term in hockey where you have a bunch of aggressive dudes playing a contact sport. I mean teammates fight in practice fairly regularly and stuff, so it's a pretty slippery term unless you have some sort of overt, repeated incidences.

A bunch of the same people have noted, if it was overt bullying or sort of misconduct by Miller, the organization would have to handle it differently and in all likelihood the PA would get involved.

Chicago Blackhawks.

 

[Canucker]

This is completely hypothetical, because you, nor I, has any idea. I just find it hard to believe this monster has been terrorizing the dressing room for X years and no one has filed a complaint, there has been no mediation, there has been nothing that would lead you to believe the situation is that sensational. In all likelihood, this is a lot more boring than people think. This has also included two entire front offices, and four vastly different coaches. I also find it hard to believe all these people are complicit in covering up some huge degree of misconduct.

I think there are a lot of people around here projecting the narrative of a terroristic bully vs. poor innocent victim without any actual evidence, just hearsay and conjecture. It's pretty sad really.

 

[Quinning]

This is completely hypothetical, because you, nor I, has any idea. I just find it hard to believe this monster has been terrorizing the dressing room for X years and no one has filed a complaint, there has been no mediation, there has been nothing that would lead you to believe the situation is that sensational. In all likelihood, this is a lot more boring than people think. This has also included two entire front offices, and four vastly different coaching staffs. I also find it hard to believe all these people are complicit in covering up some huge degree of misconduct.

Because who the f*** would speak up against a guy like Miller? At his best, he is a very popular star that has the entire arena chanting his name. Imagine being a grinder on a 1 year contract knowing you might not get another one, and risking your ass to diffuse a complicated situation. We've seen multiple vets do it and then all of a sudden they're gone at the end of the year.

It takes someone of equal stature and respect in the room to stop this shit, and my hunch is that most of these guys are looking out for their own self interest without wanting to get involved or become another target for his bullshit.

 

[supercanuck]

This is completely hypothetical, because you, nor I, has any idea. I just find it hard to believe this monster has been terrorizing the dressing room for X years and no one has filed a complaint, there has been no mediation, there has been nothing that would lead you to believe the situation is that sensational. In all likelihood, this is a lot more boring than people think. This has also included two entire front offices, and four vastly different coaching staffs. I also find it hard to believe all these people are complicit in covering up some huge degree of misconduct.

I mean maybe JT didn't take him aside and start giving him the dreaded rear admiral but below from Brad Richardson tells you all you need to know. Maybe some expect him to "just take it" for 4 years but that's not reasonable.

‘You’re too hard on the kid,'” Richardson told Shane O’Brien on the latest episode of O’Brien’s Missin’ Curfew podcast.

“When you’re on him, on him, he’s going to shut it down,” Richardson said.

Ex-Canuck Brad Richardson: I told J.T. Miller he's too hard on Elias Pettersson

Brad Richardson revealed some details about the J.T. Miller-Elias Pettersson dynamic on a podcast this week. Find out more.

theprovince.com

 

[Dirtyclapper]

Not what I'm doing here - let me be clear, I'm sympathizing with Pettersson. Despite the money, he's a 25 year old kid in a foreign country who is likely getting abused by a sociopathic asshole that has never been held in check his entire life.

Soft. Getting paid 11.6, put your big boy pants on this is professional sports.

 

[I am toxic]

Soft. Getting paid 11.6, put your big boy pants on this is professional sports.

As I said, no surprise to see the victim blaming from the hockey world.

Quoted the garbage on the assumption that cowardice would lead to editing. Putrid.

 

[Canucker]

Because who the f*** would speak up against a guy like Miller? At his best, he is a very popular that has the entire arena chanting his name. Imagine being a grinder on a 1 year contract knowing you might not get another one, and risking your ass to diffuse a complicated situation.

It takes someone of equal stature and respect in the room to stop this shit, and my hunch is that most of these guys are looking out for their own self interest without wanting to get involved or become another target for his bullshit.

So what you are saying is everyone in the coaching staff and all the players are afraid to stand up to Miller? They're all cowards or complicit in allowing Miller to be some raging maniac who bullies EP mercilessly?

 

[TruGr1t]

Because who the f*** would speak up against a guy like Miller? At his best, he is a very popular that has the entire arena chanting his name. Imagine being a grinder on a 1 year contract knowing you might not get another one, and risking your ass to diffuse a complicated situation.

It takes someone of equal stature and respect in the room to stop this shit, and my hunch is that most of these guys are looking out for their own self interest without wanting to get involved or become another target for his bullshit.

That's a bit of selective thinking, in my opinion. Miller has by no means been universally popular here throughout his tenure, there were plenty of people that wanted Horvat kept over him, and he's gone through an entire season where most of the market was against him due to his behavior (the Delia situation was like two years ago). In fact, Miller has only really been universally popular, I'd argue, last season.

Management has also been rumoured to have tried to move him at least twice, if not more.

Chicago Blackhawks.

That was a sensational situation that has happened very few times. I'd say it's a bad comparison mainly because there was not material management or coaching turnover, and they were covering up something they were potentially complicit in. Given how much turnover has happened here, I fail to see how you draw that line, given there's been so much turnover among coaches and an entire front-office swap.

 

[Dirtyclapper]

As I said, no surprise to see the victim blaming from the hockey world.

Quoted the garbage on the assumption that cowardice would lead to editing. Putrid.

Victim blaming lol. Like I said. Soft

 

[I am toxic]

I think there are a lot of people around here projecting the narrative of a terroristic bully vs. poor innocent victim without any actual evidence, just hearsay and conjecture. It's pretty sad really.

When victim blaming is called out and fails, falsely claiming there is no evidence of a victim is the next step in the hockey culture playbook.

It's pretty sad really.

 

[theguardianII]

Soft. Getting paid 11.6, put your big boy pants on this is professional sports.

Pettersson is 26yrs old and will be 27 yrs old this year he is also a 7 year veteran

But it was okay that Miller needed a reset? He was only human. It was okay if he took a month off because he needed it. He had no issues dining out then.

Maybe he did put on his big boy pants and stood up in the room and challenged Miller's personality. For years he had to be "the boy wonder" to Miller's "Batman".

The 11.6 only supported his position and confidence to be heard in the room.

There are cliques, Miller, Garland and Boeser are close, maybe Hughes as well but now he is caught in the middle of those favoring Miller, those favoring Pettersson and those who aren't either.

 

[Quinning]

You can tell who is 45+ in this thread based on the responses.

I'm not going to engage further in it. Pointless to argue.

 

[TruGr1t]

When victim blaming is called out and fails, falsely claiming there is no evidence of a victim is the next step in the hockey culture playbook.

It's pretty sad really.

This is complete conspiracy theory territory, and probably doesn't belong on this board.

 

[I am toxic]

Victim blaming lol. Like I said. Soft

Doubling down, no surprise.

Quoted again for the same reasons. Looking for synonym for putrid now, will edit it in later.

 

[Tinhorn1]

I don't see why people just assume Pettersson doesn't stand up for himself. Conflict can be conflict without bullying, and more than one party can contribute to a toxic workplace.

 

[Jerry the great]

Holy shit, are people actually suggesting that calling out a teammate for their play is tantamount to bullying?

 

[I am toxic]

This is complete conspiracy theory territory, and probably doesn't belong on this board.

There is plenty of evidence.

It absolutely belongs on this board.

Unlike the victim blaming shit, which is allowed, but certainly doesn't belong.

 

[TruGr1t]

There is plenty of evidence.

It absolutely belongs on this board.

Unlike the victim blaming shit, which is allowed, but certainly doesn't belong.

You have no idea, and you're getting darn close to slandering JT Miller.