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[PavelBure10]

Well this is all starting to make sense now. The reason why Pettersson was stalling his contract negotiations, why his smile seemed to have disappeared, why hockey doesn't look fun anymore. It's freaking JT Miller.

Pettersson has taken a lot of flack as of late. Coming to work is probably miserable for him with JT in the lockroom. Pettersson plays better when JT is not around.

The puzzle is starting to come together.

JT has got to go.

 

[ManVanFan]

By days end, we should have Laffy.

 

[JT Milker]

By days end, we should have Laffy.

Fox’s bar might be the worst I’ve ever seen.

 

[ManVanFan]

Fox’s bar might be the worst I’ve ever seen.

They are floundering like the Canucks are this year. One guy leading the way by a margin and everyone else just struggling to keep up. If the parts lined up a little better, it would probably be a match made in heaven to shake up both clubs.

 

[racerjoe]

I think it was a matter of keeping the 2 best players. JT Miller was a 90 plus point center for us, Bo Horvat was never ppg.

I don’t know if Horvat ever gets to ppg, but he was always shafted on wingers.

 

[LemonSauceD]

By days end, we should have Laffy.

What the hell did Fox do.

 

[Diversification]

Bullies are often well-liked in a group. If you don’t personally draw their ire, it can be easy to rationalize away the complaints of just the few. It’s easier that way, especially in a team environment where players are often told that the solution is to play through it and block out everything.

It’s not difficult to envision a scenario where JTM isn’t being overtly aggressive and physical but just keeps riding Petey because he feels Petey has so much more to give and JT wants him to unlock his potential. Other players on the team might feel the same way that leads to a passive sort of tacit approval. That could easily lead to cliques forming in the room and Petey feeling isolated as a result.

But from Petey’s perspective, it’s not helpful and it’s perhaps even counterproductive. His recent offensive surge coinciding with Miller’s LOA would be consistent with this notion. Would that rise to the level of textbook bullying? It’s probably a gray area. But if that’s a large part of what’s driving this, then it’s difficult to empathize with Miller if all he needs to do is to just stop haranguing Petey.

 

[Hodgy]

Not never, Lafontaine for Turgeon off the top of my head. But your point stands on the rarity of it.


Lol we think alike.

Arnott for Niuendyk comes to mind.

What we do know is that JT did something egregious enough that the club had to tell him to get lost for a month and cool down.

Do we know that? I thought it was just speculation and did’t realize it was confirmed. For what it’s worth, I tend to agree with the speculation.

It's pretty hilarious that after all of the made up, pure fantasy, absolute frothing with rage dreamworld narrative that was conjured up around how EP just can't wait to bolt and has been setting the plate to leave in free agency for years............. he steadfastly wants to stay and is theoretically blocking trades to leave while he's slumping and the team sucks.

What a load of crap that narrative was and we had to endure years of it

I don’t understand why people need to be so polarized on this site. Like, there was a lot of evidence that Pettersson was potentially not happy signing long term in Vancouver with an incompetent organization that couldn’t win. He repeatedly talked about wanting to play for a winning team. And, like, it’s a very logical and reasonable inference that Pettersson was at least unsure as to whether to sign long term with the Canucks given how much of a tire fire the organization had been. No one was inventing some totally unbelievable narrative as you seem to suggest.

And the fact Pettersson now wants to stay, as is rumoured, isn’t even contrary to that narrative. Because he currently has no trade protection, so he’s weighing playing long term in Vancouver, for example, against being traded to Columbus or Buffalo. Go figure that he now wants to stay in Vancouver!

 

[Quinning]

TBF Miller want expected to be a1c by either side. A big 50-60 point guy was what both sides had in mind. Miller turning into gold was quite the bonus.

I'd take a 50-60 point Miller that gets along with everyone over a 90-100 point Miller that is an asshole.

 

[NYVanfan]

More I think about it, the more I think JR is just challenging them. Having concluded that the trade market for either of them is garbage right now, and that it’s probably the lesser evil to just be stuck with them for the rest of the year than make a bad trade… this is just saying this ain’t our fault, it ain’t the media’s fault, it ain’t the fans’ fault… so now everybody knows the score, and you can go down like a bunch of weenies or try playing like professionals.

 

[Diversification]

And the fact Pettersson now wants to stay, as is rumoured, isn’t even contrary to that narrative. Because he currently has no trade protection, so he’s weighing playing long term in Vancouver, for example, against being traded to Columbus or Buffalo. Go figure that he now wants to stay in Vancouver!

This is exactly what is going on. Management has a difficult task ahead of them.

It’s possible that Petey turns it around once Miller is gone. The team makes up and Petey sticks around with Hughes as the primary building blocks going forwards. But they won’t know that unless we deal Miller with the high likelihood that we get pantsed on the deal in-season and probably also resign yourself to missing the playoffs.

But if they wait until the offseason for a potentially better deal, you lose the opportunity to evaluate Petey free of Miller for the remainder of the season with his NTC kicking in in the summer.

So that opens the way to Petey having more trade value but that option IMHO is by far the most likely to end badly - lose the younger higher upside player for better but still lesser pieces and slow motion lurch towards a re-tool/re-build.

Tough decisions ahead.

 

[ManVanFan]

What the hell did Fox do.

Couldn't say. Minus 3 on the night. I saw some highlights of how good Carolina looks with Rantanen, some Rangers were in view at times.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the 4.1 Rangers gave Borgen. I'm at the conclusion that 4 is the new 3 for everyday 3rd pair D.

 

[Grub]

If we can get Powers + Cousins for Pettersson I would do it. Then move Miller as well. Not a Don Cherry but I would love to add some good Canadian boys.

 

[TruGr1t]

If we can get Powers + Cousins for Pettersson I would do it. Then move Miller as well. Not a Don Cherry but I would love to add some good Canadian boys.

I don't think you get that package for Pettersson alone, if you can get Power at all. Rumors are Cozens and Byram are on the table, but Buffalo is apparently looking for another piece aside from Pettersson for that package.

 

[arttk]

so like..............why did we sign Miller over Horvat

donnie and dhali made clear that the issues go back to Benning/Green's time. why have we doubled down only to end up here

There are good reasons to trade Bo instead of Miller.
Free up leadership spot for Quinn to take over.
Miller legit better point producer.

I think the miscalculation is Miller imploding the team after tasting success

 

[Grub]

I don't think you get that package for Pettersson alone, if you can get Power at all. Rumors are Cozens and Byram are on the table, but Buffalo is apparently looking for another piece aside from Pettersson for that package.

Only worry on Byram is his concussion history. I think Powers has the potential to he our Victor Hedman.

 

[Chiripa20]

By days end, we should have Laffy.

Was at the game and of course watched the Rangers players closely. Laff got my attention, he's much faster and skilled than I realized. Honestly, the Rangers did not play well, Carolina shut them down. I did not see much in the Rangers players and prefer Buffalo as a trade partner.

 

[mriswith]

Pettersson doesn't have any trade protection until after the season.

He isn't eligible this year for it; however, apparently part of signing his deal was an agreement he wouldn't be traded and he has the same agent as Hughes aka we can't backstab him on that without seriously risking Hughes..

 

[ManVanFan]

This is exactly what is going on. Management has a difficult task ahead of them.

It’s possible that Petey turns it around once Miller is gone. The team makes up and Petey sticks around with Hughes as the primary building blocks going forwards. But they won’t know that unless we deal Miller with the high likelihood that we get pantsed on the deal in-season and probably also resign yourself to missing the playoffs.

But if they wait until the offseason for a potentially better deal, you lose the opportunity to evaluate Petey free of Miller for the remainder of the season with his NTC kicking in in the summer.

So that opens the way to Petey having more trade value but that option IMHO is by far the most likely to end badly - lose the younger higher upside player for better but still lesser pieces and slow motion lurch towards a re-tool/re-build.

Tough decisions ahead.

This team needs a therapist on its payroll.

 

[ChilliBilly]

I think it is all about striking when the iron is hot. Plenty of Stanley Cup winning teams have spent assets to get impactful players (not rentals) like the way the Canucks acquired JT Miller. Like, look at the most recent winners. They each had a major trade ("purchase") for a long-term roster player prior to their Stanley Cup wins:

Florida traded a 1st for Sam Reinhart.
Colorado traded two 2nds for Devon Toews.
Vegas traded a 1st, Tuch, and Krebs for Jack Eichel.
Tampa traded a 1st for Blake Coleman.
St Louis Traded a 1st, a 2nd, Tage Thompson for Ryan O'Reilly

Wasn't suggesting that strong teams don't make trades. What I was trying to say is that teams that are perpetually on the successful side tend to retain picks, and add some as well, then are patient with their prospects and give them time to develop.

Whereas the Canucks have often been impatient with prospects, traded high draft picks, usually for mediocre short term solutions that didnt work out that well.

 

[ManVanFan]

Was at the game and of course watched the Rangers players closely. Laff got my attention, he's much faster and skilled than I realized. Honestly, the Rangers did not play well, Carolina shut them down. I did not see much in the Rangers players and prefer Buffalo as a trade partner.

Kakko has 15 points in 19 games. Bump in ice time and better line mates and PP time has a lot to do with that I'm sure. Laffy coming into his own with a stale Rangers core bringing him back down. Maybe a change would help Laffy blossom as well. Look at how great Miller became after leaving the Rangers. Lol.

 

[Ernie]

Well this is all starting to make sense now. The reason why Pettersson was stalling his contract negotiations, why his smile seemed to have disappeared, why hockey doesn't look fun anymore. It's freaking JT Miller.

Pettersson has taken a lot of flack as of late. Coming to work is probably miserable for him with JT in the lockroom. Pettersson plays better when JT is not around.

The puzzle is starting to come together.

JT has got to go.

Kinda goes both ways though. JT might be a jerk but he's not the biggest jerk in hockey by any extent. If Pettersson can be thrown off his game by JT, what's to stop it happening again? Or do the Canucks have to build a team of introverts around him?

My gut feeling is that Pettersson will not survive in this market with or without a JT trade. That may also be the reason that the team is exploring trading him.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

Let’s all manifest Petey for Brady with Green convincing management that he can unlock Peteys full potential. Having QH43’s best friend on the team would definitely keep him happy and at this point it needs to be a focus.

 

[Quinning]

Pettersson, Miller and Hughes honestly need a 2 hour closed door meeting to get all of this shit out in the open, address each other's concerns, form a plan to co-exist peacefully (as they will likely never truly be on good terms) and move the f*** on. I'd expect Hughes as the Captain to set something like this up. If either side refuses, at this point they need to be traded from the team because they are not fulfilling their obligations to their teammates.

Leave Tocchet and management out of it entirely, this is on the players to sort out. If this festers any further, they'll see a mass exodus for pennies on the dollar and it's not going to be pretty.

 

[TruGr1t]

Pettersson, Miller and Hughes honestly need a 2 hour closed door meeting to get all of this shit out in the open, address each other's concerns, form a plan to co-exist peacefully (as they will likely never truly be on good terms) and move the f*** on. I'd expect Hughes as the Captain to set something like this up. If either side refuses, at this point they need to be traded from the team because they are not fulfilling their obligations to their teammates.

Leave Tocchet and management out of it entirely, this is on the players to sort out. If this festers any further, they'll see a mass exodus for pennies on the dollar and it's not going to be pretty.

As a few observers have said over the past few days, the lack of a "players-only meeting" during all of this is pretty telling. They don't think it will help, obviously. I remember during past struggle sessions they were having them, if not regularly than several times. The fact we haven't heard a peep about the players getting together to hash this out tells you a lot, in my opinion.

The other possibility is they've actually had player-only meetings, but the results were so disastrous they didn't want it publicized.