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[Hansen]

This forum is so fickle.

I've never seen people so consumed by the moment and not having the ability to zoom out and understand the big picture.

The Tocchet, Allvin, JR slander is a prime example of what I am talking about.

It's easy to take shots when the team isn't performing, and easy to praise when they are doing well. Sometimes it's warranted but the hard thing to do is to think critically. Being able to praise when the team isn't performing, and being able to critique when they are doing well.

This season has been a serious of unfortunate events... sometimes it happens. Sometimes everything goes wrong. It doesn't mean that Tocchet, Allvin and JR need to be fired or are suddenly bad at their jobs.

Bandwagon mentality is so strong here... I feel like there are like maybe 5-10 posters here that can think critically and zoom out. It's hard to take anyone seriously sometimes. It's crazy because ever since Tocchet, Allvin and JR arrived, they have done nothing but good things to transform this team into a good, legitimate team.

This year has been tough and we'll probably miss the playoffs, but I have full confidence in this management/coaching staff. Have they been perfect? Nope. Have they made a decent amount of mistakes? Yes. But you can't bat 100% - this management/coaching staff have way more hits than misses, probably one of the better management/coaching groups in the league.

There's no need to repeat all the things we went through this year as everyone knows. Where would we be if Hughes wasn't hurt all year? Where would we be if Petey's game didn't fall off a cliff? Where would we be if Boeser's game didn't fall off a cliff? Where would we be if Demko just provided average goaltending instead of being sidelined all year? Where would we be if Silovs didn't self-implode? Where would we be if Miller didn't beef with Petey? Where would we be if Joshua didn't get cancer? Where would we be if Hoglander wasn't snake-bitten all year?

It's not our year but it doesn't mean we need to clean house. We are somehow in the thick of a wildcard race despite being the unluckiest team in the league by far this year. We've also completely overhauled our team since last year - it's going to take some time to get alignment and chemistry.

Compared to last year - we have a new starting goalie, four new regulars on D (DPetey, Mancini, Forbort, MP), a handful of new regulars on F (DOC, Chytil, Debrusk, Lekkerimaki, Sherwood). We've essentially overhauled half the team through trades/FA in just less than a calendar year and been through the worst amount of injuries and drama in the league by far. Which team has had it worse than ours this year?

Read this in Jim Rutherford's voice

It's always interesting when you reach the astroturfer stage with a management, just goes to show how everything has absolutely derailed this season

 

[arttk]

Let Demmer get healthy this season and then let him have the offseason to train (didn’t get a proper training summer last season). He will be healthy and bounce back next season, then trade him after you’ve built up his value. But they won’t, they will trade him for a 3rd for short term cap space gain.

If Demko can play like 40 games next season, you extend him and figure out what to do with the cap afterwards.

 

[I am toxic]

Wounded Demko could be perfect next season

Stone him and cheat the LTIR like vegas does, have him go nuclear in playoffs

D is set, just need a magic wand and surgery to fix Petey's knee and pull another top C out of someone's ass . . .ymetric trading position

But of course Canucks and their "medical" staff are overplaying Lanks, he will be wrekt by end of next season just like Demko, Petey, and now Hughes have been wrekt

There is a lesson in there somewhere, but dammed* if I know

* I know, it's damned and idgaf all you spelling nazis

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

This forum is so fickle.

I've never seen people so consumed by the moment and not having the ability to zoom out and understand the big picture.

The Tocchet, Allvin, JR slander is a prime example of what I am talking about.

It's easy to take shots when the team isn't performing, and easy to praise when they are doing well. Sometimes it's warranted but the hard thing to do is to think critically. Being able to praise when the team isn't performing, and being able to critique when they are doing well.

This season has been a serious of unfortunate events... sometimes it happens. Sometimes everything goes wrong. It doesn't mean that Tocchet, Allvin and JR need to be fired or are suddenly bad at their jobs.

Bandwagon mentality is so strong here... I feel like there are like maybe 5-10 posters here that can think critically and zoom out. It's hard to take anyone seriously sometimes. It's crazy because ever since Tocchet, Allvin and JR arrived, they have done nothing but good things to transform this team into a good, legitimate team.

This year has been tough and we'll probably miss the playoffs, but I have full confidence in this management/coaching staff. Have they been perfect? Nope. Have they made a decent amount of mistakes? Yes. But you can't bat 100% - this management/coaching staff have way more hits than misses, probably one of the better management/coaching groups in the league.

There's no need to repeat all the things we went through this year as everyone knows. Where would we be if Hughes wasn't hurt all year? Where would we be if Petey's game didn't fall off a cliff? Where would we be if Boeser's game didn't fall off a cliff? Where would we be if Demko just provided average goaltending instead of being sidelined all year? Where would we be if Silovs didn't self-implode? Where would we be if Miller didn't beef with Petey? Where would we be if Joshua didn't get cancer? Where would we be if Hoglander wasn't snake-bitten all year?

It's not our year but it doesn't mean we need to clean house. We are somehow in the thick of a wildcard race despite being the unluckiest team in the league by far this year. We've also completely overhauled our team since last year - it's going to take some time to get alignment and chemistry.

Compared to last year - we have a new starting goalie, four new regulars on D (DPetey, Mancini, Forbort, MP), a handful of new regulars on F (DOC, Chytil, Debrusk, Lekkerimaki, Sherwood). We've essentially overhauled half the team through trades/FA in just less than a calendar year and been through the worst amount of injuries and drama in the league by far. Which team has had it worse than ours this year?

Fantastic post. Should be a sticky at the top of all GDTs and trade rumor threads.

 

[Nick Lang]

Can we though? Ideally you want a 1B to tandem with Lankinen. Which 1B is available at $1m? Unless you unearth another Lankinen off UFA this year, you are likely paying the backup a fairly significant salary (based on the contracts handed out recently), so you aren't likely to save anywhere near $4m, probably at most $2m, unless you really take a chance and go with the cheapest options possible.

The major positive to trading Demko and signing a reliable 1B is for the reliability. Having a $5m Demko plays 20ish games next season is not going to help us at all. We give up the ceiling (a healthy Demko playing at his usual level), in return we receive a higher floor (a capable 1B instead of the injury-riddled Demko or Silovs in net).

It is a risky decision that can work out well for Allvin, or blow up in his face big time. They really need to be certain of Demko's health one way or another by July.

I mean yeah I'm just laying it out financially. You would have to find a cheap goalie, either $1 or $2 mil. Depends on what management thinks and how Demko responds. He may be done for all we know. Either way, $4.5+ mil on the bench in addition to OEL hit is a lot of wasted cap space. Despite how the cap space looks large to some again we will likely be challenged to add all the pieces we want with our available cap space.

Agreed, if we don't have a real good idea on his health we may be forced to let someone else take the risk/reward. Good point about the higher floor with a new 1B. It definitely would be nice to not have to deal with the injury concerns as well.

I'm not really advocating for either at this point but it is a way to shed to some salary.

@arttk I think Hoglander should be gone regardless of this decision. Demko would be for additional cap space. Hoglander is getting completely pushed out of the squad imo. Joshua, Sherwood, and DOC, all signed recently and play his position. Certainly Lekkerimaki should be possibly above him next year as well.

 

[bossram]

Read this in Jim Rutherford's voice

It's always interesting when you reach the astroturfer stage with a management, just goes to show how everything has absolutely derailed this season

Management has canvassed twitter and the forums and decided the interns need to make some astroturf posts to change the fan narrative.

 

[bossram]

New joins, walls of texts blowing sunshine up our asses defending management. . .

Yeah, we've seen this movie before

btw I love shills and astroturfers. Makes me feel* less . . . less . . . well, you know

* in comparison only of course, not in absolute terms -

Some accounts here....extremely thinly-veiled and obvious.

 

[TruGr1t]

New joins, walls of texts blowing sunshine up our asses defending management. . .

Yeah, we've seen this movie before

btw I love shills and astroturfers. Makes me feel* less . . . less . . . well, you know

* in comparison only of course, not in absolute terms -

This was an amazing trend during the Benning years. They must have had multiple staffers posting here.

 

[arttk]

I mean yeah I'm just laying it out financially. You would have to find a cheap goalie, either $1 or $2 mil. Depends on what management thinks and how Demko responds. He may be done for all we know. Either way, $4.5+ mil on the bench in addition to OEL hit is a lot of wasted cap space. Despite how the cap space looks large to some again we will likely be challenged to add all the pieces we want with our available cap space.

Agreed, if we don't have a real good idea on his health we may be forced to let someone else take the risk/reward. Good point about the higher floor with a new 1B. It definitely would be nice to not have to deal with the injury concerns as well.

I'm not really advocating for either at this point but it is a way to shed to some salary.

@arttk I think Hoglander should be gone regardless of this decision. Demko would be for additional cap space. Hoglander is getting completely pushed out of the squad imo. Joshua, Sherwood, and DOC, all signed recently and play his position.

If we move Hog we have 17M, I mean if we are at a point where we need like 3M more then maybe.

 

[Peter Griffin]

The UFA forward class this year is awful, there’s a reason the team is actually trying to re-sign Boeser when they ideally should be walking away and spending their money elsewhere. Marner, Ehlers, Boeser and Bennett are the only top 6 forwards under 30. Any real additions are going to likely have to come via trade. I get the feeling one of DPetey or Willander is likely going to be dealt if they want to add a legitimate top 6 center to this group.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

New joins, walls of texts blowing sunshine up our asses defending management. . .

Yeah, we've seen this movie before

btw I love shills and astroturfers. Makes me feel* less . . . less . . . well, you know

* in comparison only of course, not in absolute terms -

Yawn. Yes, any measured response that isn't shrieking panic from the rooftops can only be astroturfing.

 

[Hansen]

The UFA forward class this year is awful, there’s a reason the team is actually trying to re-sign Boeser when they ideally should be walking away and spending their money elsewhere. Marner, Ehlers, Boeser and Bennett are the only top 6 forwards under 30. Any real additions are going to likely have to come via trade. I get the feeling one of DPetey or Willander is likely going to be dealt if they want to add a legitimate top 6 center to this group.

The likelihood that we actually land any of the four listed forwards is incredibly slim as well. That said, Boeser has been incredibly poor outside of last year, lethargic player who does not drive, slow, and only going to get slower here on out. If Petey were playing like a real franchise C he’d be able to get something out of Boeser’s shot, but he isnt. We’re still better off walking with the cap space.

Wish we had been in on Zetterlund.

 

[Peter Griffin]

The likelihood that we actually land any of the four listed forwards is incredibly slim as well. That said, Boeser has been incredibly poor outside of last year, lethargic player who does not drive, slow, and only going to get slower here on out. If Petey were playing like a real franchise C he’d be able to get something out of Boeser’s shot, but he isnt. We’re still better off walking with the cap space.

Wish we had been in on Zetterlund.

Agree 100%. Zetterlund would’ve been a good addition to the top 9 although I’m not sure he’s a legit top 6 player.

 

[I am toxic]

Yawn. Yes, any measured response that isn't shrieking panic from the rooftops can only be astroturfing.

Hmmmm

Reductio ad toxicum

 

[algernon]

Wounded Demko could be perfect next season

Stone him and cheat the LTIR like vegas does, have him go nuclear in playoffs

D is set, just need a magic wand and surgery to fix Petey's knee and pull another top C out of someone's ass . . .ymetric trading position

But of course Canucks and their "medical" staff are overplaying Lanks, he will be wrekt by end of next season just like Demko, Petey, and now Hughes have been wrekt

There is a lesson in there somewhere, but dammed* if I know

* I know, it's damned and idgaf all you spelling nazis

Explain Phil Kessel ironman streak plz.

It sounds peak millennial NBA what you are saying.

Hockey is tough

 

[rypper]

If Ehlers came at a reasonable rate, he's got great speed. Play him with Chytill.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

Delete

 

[I am toxic]

Explain Phil Kessel ironman streak plz.

It sounds peak millennial NBA what you are saying.

Hockey is tough

Don't you have a diary to write?

Oh, I forgot, that was charlie

Spoiler alert: they break up and the mouse . . . goes to live in a sunlit field of dancing daisies and prancing unicorns pooping rainbow coloured icecream

Google squatty potty for a visual

 

[Vector]

It’s not cool to accuse someone of being a plant. If you’re going to take the default position that someone’s posts are invalid because you think they aren’t genuine, then there’s no point for you to continue posting here.

That’s not to say there aren’t posters here who may work for the Canucks or are arguing in bad faith. We know it’s happened in the past.

Still, just accusing someone with no evidence is a super shitty thing to do and I’m really disappointed in some members of this community.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

No real "people" exist on the internet anymore. Of course, that isn't true. It is public perception, though.

Everyone who disagrees with me is of course an idiot or has some sinister ulterior motive to discredit the gold I so clearly spin around these parts.

Of course, that's not true either.

 

[dez]

If Ehlers came at a reasonable rate, he's got great speed. Play him with Chytill.

Chytil as a teams 2c is peak mediocrity. The trade bump has worn off and now we see who he really is, a 40 point 3c.

 

[mriswith]

I almost don't even want to engage because I'm not really a mgmt hater, definitely not on the fire them bandwagon and this post smells of something we've seen around these parts before but I'll swing once.

See - this doesn't make sense to me.

I see so many people comparing him to Benning (lol) or saying he's trending towards that territory. I just don't know what he could have done differently.

They clearly didn't do their homework on this team when they took over. Do a little homework instead of coming in blind and "evaluating" the team for a year only to figure out what most of us on the boards had already known for years about what needed to be done with the roster. Then they could have had a little foresight and sold the players they eventually tried to sell anyways earlier when they had more value and could have harvested better packages including 2023 1sts, a clearly foreseeable strong draft, for them.

Most of his "mistakes" were things that nobody could have anticipated. As an executive/manager (of any type of organization), is to act accordingly given the information you have at the time to produce the best results.

Is Allvin supposed to know Petey would fall off a cliff the second he signed his extension?
Is Allvin supposed to know Kuzmenko would fall off a cliff the second he signed his extension?
Is Allvin supposed to know Hoglander would fall off a cliff the second he signed his extension?
Is Allvin supposed to know Mikheyev would tear his ACL before playing a game for us?
Is Allvin supposed to know that two grown men in JTM and Petey can't figure things out and have to put JTM on LoA and then basically forced to trade him?

This entire list is wrong.

1. EP - fell off a cliff in January, EP signed in March. Are we supposed to believe mgmt is blind and didn't see it? I also don't mind the extension, I mind mgmt being dumb about letting players play through injuries they shouldn't, allowing a mild January injury to end up ruining a players season, playoffs and then offseason training so the effect bled into this year, and then being in complete denial about the injury while they go on a "no accountability" media tour throwing everyone else under the bus earlier this year. A good strategy for dealing with Aquilini but not one's going to receive that tactic well over here.

2. Kuz - half this board thought Kuz's value was at it's peak at the trade deadline before he signed an extension. No one on the boards thought his 27% shot percentage was sustainable. I thought this board wasn't smarter than mgmt?

3. Hog - was crap the last half of the season and especially crap in the playoffs. Are we supposed to believe mgmt is blind and didn't see it? Also rewarding him for showing up in shape - goes back to my point about mgmt not doing their homework on this team. Hog always shows up in the best shape on the team, and it hasn't saved him from riding the bus in the past let alone earn an extremely premature 9 mil for it.

4. Mikheyev - mgmt was dumb for letting a player play through an injury, in a season that was already over in November, long enough that it ended up ruining their offseason. I give them full credit for fixing their mistakes fast, something I always appreciated about Gillis as well. However, they turned one ruined season into two by letting him play it out and worst of all, they learned nothing from this and repeated the same mistake with EP last year.

5 - JT and EP conflict. Again, do the tiniest amount of homework before taking over the team and this would have been obvious. Yes, this was a problem lurking under the surface for many years that occasionally boiled over. And mgmt telling JT to get on EP's case early in the season was literally the dumbest thing we've seen since Benning and would have fit right in with that macroni and glue eater's tenure.

My only issue with Allvin is that he should have went after some cheap defensive depth this year instead of relying on Juulsen/Desharnais. That's probably been the biggest mistake so far from Allvin and co.

He should have traded our first for MP the minute Pitt was open to selling which was what, November? Instead he waited until the season was ruined just to trade the better first for a player we knew he was targeting since the start of the season.

The amount of hits Allvin has had in his short tenure is nothing short of spectacular... he should have win exec of the year last year. The hits:

Professional:
Hiring Tocchet (Jack Adams)
Horvat - > Hronek (1RD)
Miller -> MP, Chytil, DOC, Mancini (Decent return given NMC)
Kuzmenko (first year was great, fall off was huge)
Blueger (good player @ good price)
Suter (good player @ great price)
Sherwood (good player @ great price)
Lankinen (good player @ great price, may have found our future 1G)
Joshua (good player @ good price)
Cole (good player @ good price)
Soucy (good player @ good price, then traded for a pick)
Zadorov (great rental @ great price)

Amateur:
DPetey (already producing)
Lekk (trending great)
Willander (trending great)
Mynio (trending great)
Kudryvastev (trending great)
Mueller (trending great)
Hunter B (trending great, used as trade chip)
Fernstrom (trending great, used as trade chip)
Sasson (free college UFA, could be an NHL regular)

But our confidence in Allvin is faltering? LOL. The fans just can't wait to run the coaches/management group out of the city the moment things aren't going their way. It's so fickle and feeble... like little kids getting mad cus they didn't get their candy.

Sidenote: Getting Willander, MP, Hronek, DPetey, Mancini, Mynio and Kurdyvstaev over a period of three years is nothing short of incredible. He has completely revamped the defensive pipeline of this team - to the point that if Hughes leaves, we won't be absolutely decimated on the back-end. Let's give him some leeway and time to cook on the offensive end.

I'm not a mgmt hater in general, don't want them fired, and they're much better than Benning. Any mgmt we have is always going to be crippled by Aquilini and that has to weigh in to the equation.

However, they've had 3 years. Average tenure of a GM is 4.5 years. They made the decision to accept the contend immediately mandate with the team in the position they were in. They are going to get criticized for not being able to keep pace with the plan they chose.

 

[arttk]

However, they've had 3 years. Average tenure of a GM is 4.5 years. They made the decision to accept the contend immediately mandate with the team in the position they were in. They are going to get criticized for not being able to keep pace with the plan they chose.

There are a couple of key points.
Any management team hired are hired with a mandate to contend immediately, that’s just the truth. To think oh there will be a management team that will come in and rebuild is simply folly.

I feel like they were ahead of the plan last year and this year things fell apart from a mix of things that are within their control and things that are not.

Personally I feel like any management group that have to deal with the Benning mess should have like 4 years min and I feel like what they did last year should earn them grace.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

This was an amazing trend during the Benning years. They must have had multiple staffers posting here.

Only one that we know of.

EDIT: Just to expand on that - it’s rare. There’s been very few times it’s proven to be true. Just because someone has a different opinion than you - or a rosier one - doesn’t make them an employee of the team.

 

[supercanuck]

We need to find EP a bonafide #1 W in the offseason. Chytil is doable as a #2 C if we can get a dominant #1 unit (like MacK/Rantanen/Makar or McDavid/Hyman/Bouchard or Kucherov/Point/Hedman) with EP/1W/QH.