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[sensodyne17]

This forum is so fickle.

I've never seen people so consumed by the moment and not having the ability to zoom out and understand the big picture.

The Tocchet, Allvin, JR slander is a prime example of what I am talking about.

It's easy to take shots when the team isn't performing, and easy to praise when they are doing well. Sometimes it's warranted but the hard thing to do is to think critically. Being able to praise when the team isn't performing, and being able to critique when they are doing well.

This season has been a serious of unfortunate events... sometimes it happens. Sometimes everything goes wrong. It doesn't mean that Tocchet, Allvin and JR need to be fired or are suddenly bad at their jobs.

Bandwagon mentality is so strong here... I feel like there are like maybe 5-10 posters here that can think critically and zoom out. It's hard to take anyone seriously sometimes. It's crazy because ever since Tocchet, Allvin and JR arrived, they have done nothing but good things to transform this team into a good, legitimate team.

This year has been tough and we'll probably miss the playoffs, but I have full confidence in this management/coaching staff. Have they been perfect? Nope. Have they made a decent amount of mistakes? Yes. But you can't bat 100% - this management/coaching staff have way more hits than misses, probably one of the better management/coaching groups in the league.

There's no need to repeat all the things we went through this year as everyone knows. Where would we be if Hughes wasn't hurt all year? Where would we be if Petey's game didn't fall off a cliff? Where would we be if Boeser's game didn't fall off a cliff? Where would we be if Demko just provided average goaltending instead of being sidelined all year? Where would we be if Silovs didn't self-implode? Where would we be if Miller didn't beef with Petey? Where would we be if Joshua didn't get cancer? Where would we be if Hoglander wasn't snake-bitten all year?

It's not our year but it doesn't mean we need to clean house. We are somehow in the thick of a wildcard race despite being the unluckiest team in the league by far this year. We've also completely overhauled our team since last year - it's going to take some time to get alignment and chemistry.

Compared to last year - we have a new starting goalie, four new regulars on D (DPetey, Mancini, Forbort, MP), a handful of new regulars on F (DOC, Chytil, Debrusk, Lekkerimaki, Sherwood). We've essentially overhauled half the team through trades/FA in just less than a calendar year and been through the worst amount of injuries and drama in the league by far. Which team has had it worse than ours this year?

 

[Peter Griffin]

With the way how Petey is playing, we are easily missing another goal a game. Having Hughes and Petey playing injury free and at a high level should theoretically set a baseline of like 2-3 goals per game. If anything, it's actually a bloody miracle how we are performing with Hughes out for such a long time and Petey playing not even at a .5PPG level.

We need Petey to come back to form and beyond that
to be a playoff team (wild card or 3 seed): 2 20goal scorer & another 15 goal scorer
to be a contender: 1 PPG player on top of what's listed above

Emphasis should be to add some size/grit to our forward group. A guy like Alex Tuch would be a fantastic addition.

 

[LemonSauceD]

I got no problems with Tocchet.

I have very little confidence in Allvin though.

 

[Bgav]

I got no problems with Tocchet.

I have very little confidence in Allvin though.

There is really no point blaming the coach when the roster is ass

 

[Nick Lang]

I got no problems with Tocchet.

I have very little confidence in Allvin though.

Me neither. RT has been great in his time here. Turned the team around in his first half season. Simply amazing and coach of the year last season. Not much more to say there. Struggling through crazy adversity out of his control this season but still maintaining discipline and keeping the team in a playoff spot. I don't get the short leash and criticisms around here after what we've all been through. He's been a beacon of light and produced great results.

I agree on Alllvin. Sometimes he's cooking and making these awesome moves and then there is deadline day times where he exhumes smug arrogance and blames everyone else but himself for what's going on.

 

[dbaz]

I still don't see how this team improves the offense this offseason.

There's minimal assets to trade and plenty of other teams have more space than Van.

Other than just blind hope, things won't substantially change next year.

they would basically have to have the best off season ever. but they cant as they dont have the cap to do it,a s you mentioned. 15ish mil?(not checking exact numbers) and they need 2 impact forwards, another centre and a dman.

so what can they do?
well they want JK from carolina, carolina has expressed interested in both hoglander and demko in the past.

they get a center, and gain some cap. moves them to lets say 18.5 mil cap.. but they still need the following:
2 impact forwards, 1 dman, 1 back up

marner? doesnt make sense cap wise or him deciding to come here.
ehlers? theres a chance
bennett? dont think hes leaving fla

so that makes us circle back to boeser.. who at that point is probably already gone, and if not, is upset with management.

they arent going to give up wallinder/lekk in a trade so there goes attempting to acquire someone high end. thus 2 real options. take on cap hits who underperformed and hope they come back, or sell.

 

[LemonSauceD]

they would basically have to have the best off season ever. but they cant as they dont have the cap to do it,a s you mentioned. 15ish mil?(not checking exact numbers) and they need 2 impact forwards, another centre and a dman.

so what can they do?
well they want JK from carolina, carolina has expressed interested in both hoglander and demko in the past.

they get a center, and gain some cap. moves them to lets say 18.5 mil cap.. but they still need the following:
2 impact forwards, 1 dman, 1 back up

marner? doesnt make sense cap wise or him deciding to come here.
ehlers? theres a chance
bennett? dont think hes leaving fla

so that makes us circle back to boeser.. who at that point is probably already gone, and if not upset with management.

they arent going to give up wallinder/lekk in a trade so there goes attempting to acquire someone high end. thus 2 real options. take on cap hits who underperformed and hope they come back, or sell.

I think they’ll trade Demko, Hoglander, and maybe Blueger. Can’t go with a 9M goalie tandem when our forward group is the way it is right now. And with Sherwood, Joshua, O Connor, and the plethora of Abby guys knocking down the door for a 4th line spot, it’s hard to justify having Hoglander around at 3M.

Trading those 3 gives us 22M of cap space. I’d like for us to try and get a 3rd round pick for 2026 so we can offer sheet someone.

 

[sensodyne17]

I got no problems with Tocchet.

I have very little confidence in Allvin though.

See - this doesn't make sense to me.

I see so many people comparing him to Benning (lol) or saying he's trending towards that territory. I just don't know what he could have done differently. Most of his "mistakes" were things that nobody could have anticipated. As an executive/manager (of any type of organization), is to act accordingly given the information you have at the time to produce the best results.

Is Allvin supposed to know Petey would fall off a cliff the second he signed his extension?
Is Allvin supposed to know Kuzmenko would fall off a cliff the second he signed his extension?
Is Allvin supposed to know Hoglander would fall off a cliff the second he signed his extension?
Is Allvin supposed to know Mikheyev would tear his ACL before playing a game for us?
Is Allvin supposed to know that two grown men in JTM and Petey can't figure things out and have to put JTM on LoA and then basically forced to trade him?

My only issue with Allvin is that he should have went after some cheap defensive depth this year instead of relying on Juulsen/Desharnais. That's probably been the biggest mistake so far from Allvin and co.

The amount of hits Allvin has had in his short tenure is nothing short of spectacular... he should have win exec of the year last year. The hits:

Professional:
Hiring Tocchet (Jack Adams)
Horvat - > Hronek (1RD)
Miller -> MP, Chytil, DOC, Mancini (Decent return given NMC)
Kuzmenko (first year was great, fall off was huge)
Blueger (good player @ good price)
Suter (good player @ great price)
Sherwood (good player @ great price)
Lankinen (good player @ great price, may have found our future 1G)
Joshua (good player @ good price)
Cole (good player @ good price)
Soucy (good player @ good price, then traded for a pick)
Zadorov (great rental @ great price)

Amateur:
DPetey (already producing)
Lekk (trending great)
Willander (trending great)
Mynio (trending great)
Kudryvastev (trending great)
Mueller (trending great)
Hunter B (trending great, used as trade chip)
Fernstrom (trending great, used as trade chip)
Sasson (free college UFA, could be an NHL regular)

But our confidence in Allvin is faltering? LOL. The fans just can't wait to run the coaches/management group out of the city the moment things aren't going their way. It's so fickle and feeble... like little kids getting mad cus they didn't get their candy.

Sidenote: Getting Willander, MP, Hronek, DPetey, Mancini, Mynio and Kurdyvstaev over a period of three years is nothing short of incredible. He has completely revamped the defensive pipeline of this team - to the point that if Hughes leaves, we won't be absolutely decimated on the back-end. Let's give him some leeway and time to cook on the offensive end.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I’d like for us to try and get a 3rd round pick for 2026 so we can offer sheet someone.

Offer sheets have to be made with the teams original picks, so would need to convince Calgary to give it back.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

Interesting.

 

[credulous]

I got no problems with Tocchet.

I have very little confidence in Allvin though.

i don't think tocchet is very good but he's not the problem here

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Interesting.

Rumours that Panarin, Kreider and Zibby will all be on the trade block this summer.

 

[TruGr1t]

Interesting.

Meanwhile, heard on social media the Canucks are doing away with 1/4 season ticket packages. First the ice packs, now price increases and no 1/4 packages.

 

[arttk]

See - this doesn't make sense to me.

I see so many people comparing him to Benning (lol) or saying he's trending towards that territory. I just don't know what he could have done differently. Most of his "mistakes" were things that nobody could have anticipated. As an executive/manager (of any type of organization), is to act accordingly given the information you have at the time to produce the best results.

Is Allvin supposed to know Petey would fall off a cliff the second he signed his extension?
Is Allvin supposed to know Kuzmenko would fall off a cliff the second he signed his extension?
Is Allvin supposed to know Hoglander would fall off a cliff the second he signed his extension?
Is Allvin supposed to know Mikheyev would tear his ACL before playing a game for us?
Is Allvin supposed to know that two grown men in JTM and Petey can't figure things out and have to put JTM on LoA and then basically forced to trade him?

My only issue with Allvin is that he should have went after some cheap defensive depth this year instead of relying on Juulsen/Desharnais. That's probably been the biggest mistake so far from Allvin and co.

The amount of hits Allvin has had in his short tenure is nothing short of spectacular... he should have win exec of the year last year. The hits:

Professional:
Hiring Tocchet (Jack Adams)
Horvat - > Hronek (1RD)
Miller -> MP, Chytil, DOC, Mancini (Decent return given NMC)
Kuzmenko (first year was great, fall off was huge)
Blueger (good player @ good price)
Suter (good player @ great price)
Sherwood (good player @ great price)
Lankinen (good player @ great price, may have found our future 1G)
Joshua (good player @ good price)
Cole (good player @ good price)
Soucy (good player @ good price, then traded for a pick)
Zadorov (great rental @ great price)

Amateur:
DPetey (already producing)
Lekk (trending great)
Willander (trending great)
Mynio (trending great)
Kudryvastev (trending great)
Mueller (trending great)
Hunter B (trending great, used as trade chip)
Fernstrom (trending great, used as trade chip)
Sasson (free college UFA, could be an NHL regular)

But our confidence in Allvin is faltering? LOL. The fans just can't wait to run the coaches/management group out of the city the moment things aren't going their way. It's so fickle and feeble... like little kids getting mad cus they didn't get their candy.

Sidenote: Getting Willander, MP, Hronek, DPetey, Mancini, Mynio and Kurdyvstaev over a period of three years is nothing short of incredible. He has completely revamped the defensive pipeline of this team - to the point that if Hughes leaves, we won't be absolutely decimated on the back-end. Let's give him some leeway and time to cook on the offensive end.

a lot of posters here were very personally offended when Allvin and JR decided not to rebuild because we can do a QUICKIE REBUILD TM.

 

[I am toxic]

New joins, walls of texts blowing sunshine up our asses defending management. . .

Yeah, we've seen this movie before

btw I love shills and astroturfers. Makes me feel less* . . . less . . . well, you know

* in comparison only of course, not in absolute terms

 

[Nuckles]

Meanwhile, heard on social media the Canucks are doing away with 1/4 season ticket packages. First the ice packs, now price increases and no 1/4 packages.

Can't have the rowdy poors ruining the pristine quiet and calm atmosphere

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

I think they’ll trade Demko, Hoglander, and maybe Blueger. Can’t go with a 9M goalie tandem when our forward group is the way it is right now. And with Sherwood, Joshua, O Connor, and the plethora of Abby guys knocking down the door for a 4th line spot, it’s hard to justify having Hoglander around at 3M.

Trading those 3 gives us 22M of cap space. I’d like for us to try and get a 3rd round pick for 2026 so we can offer sheet someone.

I agree with this 100%. I think it might be hard but I would trade Sharks 2025 third for our third in 2026.

 

[arttk]

New joins, walls of texts blowing sunshine up our asses defending management. . .

Yeah, we've seen this movie before

btw I love shills and astroturfers. Makes me feel* less . . . less . . . well, you know

* in comparison only of course, not in absolute terms -

i think Allvin/JR in general is above average in terms of pro scouting, amateur scouting and contracts. In terms of team building, it's clear they have a vision of the team and every piece they acquire makes sense outside of Desharnais. They are way above average when it comes to rectifying their mistakes.

PR and MEDICAL is below average but to be honest, I don't know why people give a f*** about PR.

I think given the fact that they inherited a steaming pile of shit where we have no cap, no picks, no prospects and a bunch of overpaid contract, the fact we were able to turn it around last year is an absolute miracle. I think that itself should give them more leeway, especially considering they have a knack of rectifying mistakes they have made.

Every sports exec makes mistakes, the most important thing is the ability to rectify, move forward and not repeat the same mistakes.

I think they’ll trade Demko, Hoglander, and maybe Blueger. Can’t go with a 9M goalie tandem when our forward group is the way it is right now. And with Sherwood, Joshua, O Connor, and the plethora of Abby guys knocking down the door for a 4th line spot, it’s hard to justify having Hoglander around at 3M.

Trading those 3 gives us 22M of cap space. I’d like for us to try and get a 3rd round pick for 2026 so we can offer sheet someone.

Demko is probably not worth trading, he might not even get us a 3rd rounder. Might as well see if he can stay healthy because healthy Demko >>>>>> value of a 3rd rounder. With Lank, I think we can split duties and goaltending could be a strength we haven't had since Luongo / Schneider won the Jenning.

 

[LemonSauceD]

i think Allvin/JR in general is above average in terms of pro scouting, amateur scouting and contracts. In terms of team building, it's clear they have a vision of the team and every piece they acquire makes sense outside of Desharnais. They are way above average when it comes to rectifying their mistakes.

PR and MEDICAL is below average but to be honest, I don't know why people give a f*** about PR.

I think given the fact that they inherited a steaming pile of shit where we have no cap, no picks, no prospects and a bunch of overpaid contract, the fact we were able to turn it around last year is an absolute miracle. I think that itself should give them more leeway, especially considering they have a knack of rectifying mistakes they have made.

Every sports exec makes mistakes, the most important thing is the ability to rectify, move forward and not repeat the same mistakes.


Demko is probably not worth trading, he might not even get us a 3rd rounder. Might as well see if he can stay healthy because healthy Demko >>>>>> value of a 3rd rounder. With Lank, I think we can split duties and goaltending could be a strength we haven't had since Luongo / Schneider won the Jenning.

We can't afford $9.5M tandem. Especially to an oft injured goalie. There are teams that will definitely take on Demko for a late round pick or whatever and im okay with that. Clearing his cap space and being able to use that for our top 6 would be beneficial imo.

14M is not enough to fix our offense.

 

[arttk]

We can't afford $9.5M tandem. Especially to an oft injured goalie. There are teams that will definitely take on Demko for a late round pick or whatever and im okay with that. Clearing his cap space and being able to use that for our top 6 would be beneficial imo.

14M is not enough to fix our offense.

I would trade away Hog first to be honest.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

We can't afford $9.5M tandem. Especially to an oft injured goalie. There are teams that will definitely take on Demko for a late round pick or whatever and im okay with that. Clearing his cap space and being able to use that for our top 6 would be beneficial imo.

14M is not enough to fix our offense.

That's a lot of words to say you'd like to make another trade we are going to lose by a landslide.

OR

Maybe not. The last thing you want as a goalie is to lose knee mobility. It'd be exciting, at least. So much money to make mistakes with.

 

[Nick Lang]

Demko is probably not worth trading, he might not even get us a 3rd rounder. Might as well see if he can stay healthy because healthy Demko >>>>>> value of a 3rd rounder. With Lank, I think we can split duties and goaltending could be a strength we haven't had since Luongo / Schneider won the Jenning.

I don't think he cares about the return. It's the cap space we'd get as it's an expensive goalie tandem and we can save anywhere from 2-4 mil probably. It's super dependent on the rest of the season and what management's plan is for Demko. Not a lot of info for us fans right now.

Can he stay healthy, that's a huge question mark.

 

[arttk]

I don't think he cares about the return. It's the cap space we'd get as it's an expensive goalie tandem and we can save anywhere from 2-4 mil probably. It's super dependent on the rest of the season and what management's plan is for Demko. Not a lot of info for us fans right now.

Can he stay healthy, that's a huge question mark.

I mean there is also the part of, is he even tradable. We would need to see him play at least 10 games from now and with 18 games remaining, that seems like a stretch.

I think if we do trade away Demko, we'll need to get a quality backup that will cost like 2M because even though Lank is playing alright, his play really drops when we overplay him. So really we are only saving like 3M? Might as well trade away Hog and free up 3M there since the bottom 6 forward spots are already pretty damn crowded.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I don't think he cares about the return. It's the cap space we'd get as it's an expensive goalie tandem and we can save anywhere from 2-4 mil probably. It's super dependent on the rest of the season and what management's plan is for Demko. Not a lot of info for us fans right now.

Can he stay healthy, that's a huge question mark.

Can we though? Ideally you want a 1B to tandem with Lankinen. Which 1B is available at $1m? Unless you unearth another Lankinen off UFA this year, you are likely paying the backup a fairly significant salary (based on the contracts handed out recently), so you aren't likely to save anywhere near $4m, probably at most $2m, unless you really take a chance and go with the cheapest options possible.

The major positive to trading Demko and signing a reliable 1B is for the reliability. Having a $5m Demko plays 20ish games next season is not going to help us at all. We give up the ceiling (a healthy Demko playing at his usual level), in return we receive a higher floor (a capable 1B instead of the injury-riddled Demko or Silovs in net).

It is a risky decision that can work out well for Allvin, or blow up in his face big time. They really need to be certain of Demko's health one way or another by July.

 

[dez]

Let Demmer get healthy this season and then let him have the offseason to train (didn’t get a proper training summer last season). He will be healthy and bounce back next season, then trade him after you’ve built up his value. But they won’t, they will trade him for a 3rd for short term cap space gain.