Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Chaos Lurks Beneath the Surface

[brock hughes007]

Tocchet was here last year when every shot, bounce, side eye and fart we had on the puck went in for the first half of the season

Then he changed everything

 

[VanillaCoke]

Glad everyone's on my bandwagon now! Been on the trade EP wagon for over a year. Welcome.

It is interesting to see most ppl have now come around to where we've been for over a year.
Still a handful of tendinitis titans to go.

I don't think theyve got the guts to do anything before tdl, they've had tons of opportunities.
I do think he's gone before nmc, possibly more due to fear than desire.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

Elias Pettersson will never lead a team to a cup. Ever. QUOTE me.

 

[coastal_nuck]

They need to get rid of him before the NMC locks in. I've lost all faith that he will be an effective player long term and one that will bring this team to any form of success when it matters.

 

[rypper]

Elias Pettersson will never lead a team to a cup. Ever. QUOTE me.

 

[SnapIt]

me.

 

[Jerry the great]

me

 

[Ninjadude]

Even if management wanted to trade EP before his NMC kicks in, his value is at an all time low and there wouldnt be many GMs who would even consider it.

Like really...if you were the GM of another team, would you trade A+ assets for Petey right now? What can you realistically get for him...Cozens with no add? A 1st round pick and prospect? Probably less than what we got for JT.

i think we are stuck with him and hope he comes back next year with his head on straight. Sad times ahead for this team.

 

[LemonSauceD]

I need trades

These will never not be funny

 

[Tinhorn1]

It is interesting to see most ppl have now come around to where we've been for over a year.
Still a handful of tendinitis titans to go.

I don't think theyve got the guts to do anything before tdl, they've had tons of opportunities.
I do think he's gone before nmc, possibly more due to fear than desire.

I still haven't changed my mind. I mean, I watch the same guy as everyone else, but just given how rare it is for a player like him to transform into a plumber for the rest of his career, I'd keep him for the upside. It's just playing the odds. Pretty much have written off this entire season, though. Not a single thing has gone right for anyone. Even Hughes is injured now.

 

[Delocatedfan]

If we were to revisit the old sabres rumour of cozens + something (at the time it was either Byram).

Would we have interest if the + was one of Peterka, Quinn or Kulich?

For me I still say no & its no disrespect to any of the players above but Pete has a higher ceiling than those guys. The only upside I can think of is it brings in another winger to shore up the top 9.

 

[Kryten]

A very fork in the road moment for him and our team overall. Will he be chronically injured, will he be sold for peanuts, will he destroy our future being stuck with him, will he rebound and learn how to get strong, will he unicycle down a fashion runway and make more bad investments

 

[Wry n Ginger]

EP40 doesn't represent any teams "brand". He is a marketing disaster and actively seems to foil the teams messaging. His petulant responses indicate that he can't handle this fanbase and it's knowledgeable hockey fans.

He hasn't tried in years, his options are:

Physically try harder
Mentally try harder
Coast and make excuses...ding ding

 

[David71]

If Pettersson turns his game around it won’t be in Van, he’s not mentally strong enough to handle Vancouvers heavy spotlight of a market. If we can move him by the TDL for something decent we have to consider it.

maybe a US based team. detroit/LA

 

[David71]

If the Canucks' final offer is $8M by 6 years and Brock still says no then I'm afraid it's time to trade Prince Charming

 

[lawrence]

My question is what happened to this teams high offense. Miller Petty Boeser even Kuzmenko were all scoring and goals where coming in easy.Then Tocchet comes in changes the whole dam system around .All of a sudden everyone stops scoring.Wants the dump and chase and low scoring games.Sorry but I'm putting most of this on Tocchet and his system for this teams awful season.

there's some truth to this. He was lighting the lamp with Kuzmenko. Not sure wtf happened. we had our own Lotto line with Petey Brock and Jt miller, lighting the lamp, they get shut down for one game despite working most of the time , and suddenly the lotto line was never put together again. I'm personally getting sick of Tocchet.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I still haven't changed my mind. I mean, I watch the same guy as everyone else, but just given how rare it is for a player like him to transform into a plumber for the rest of his career, I'd keep him for the upside. It's just playing the odds. Pretty much have written off this entire season, though. Not a single thing has gone right for anyone. Even Hughes is injured now.

If there was an archetype for the player that does go full plumber, how far away would ep really be all things considered?



Also not too sure how much actual upside is there still, all while waiting a year plus for it to show up to the party again, the team could've & would've been winning more actual games with necas ++.

Idk, I watch a ton of hockey and sports, and I just dont see it with ep, haven't seen it from him for ages. Idk what some are still seeing or holding on to, but i dont see the redemption arc happening, especially not here.
I do commend the dedication to still believe in ep can lead an nhl team to sixteen playoff wins.

 

[David71]

the team needs to overhaul and get alot faster. such a slow slow team. sherwood is fast but hes like a raging bull hitting his targets. with doc/chytil its sort of the step in the right direction. other than that most of the guys are beyond slow. oilers before they gave traded mcleod/broberg

1. Nathan MacKinnon, 23 bursts per 60
2. Ryan McLeod, 19 bursts per 60
3. Roope Hintz, 18 bursts per 60
4. Connor McDavid, 17 bursts per 60
5. Brayden Point, 16 bursts per 60

 

[VanJack]

If the Canucks' final offer is $8M by 6 years and Brock still says no then I'm afraid it's time to trade Prince Charming

I heard it was $8m for five seasons, but I get your point. If indeed the Canucks did make that offer to him and he turned it down--then he'll be playing somewhere else by next Friday.

 

[Grub]

f*** EP. Trade him.

Soft as butter, we won't win with the guy.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Does anyone give a shit about Farhan Lalji's opinion on hockey? Genuinely, has he ever said something insightful? He's the kind of guy who probably can't name 10 players from every team in the league.

Our media peddles in drama and so a lot of them are gleeful that a star is struggling because it 'get's the people talking'.

I heard, I think it was David Amber, mentioning something about the Vancouver media being 'lucky' because there's so much to talk about this year.

I don't care about the media's experience or ease in writing a story. I would prefer nuanced and thoughtful analysis.

drafts are a crapshoot after the first 15 picks anyways. I look at how deep the first 15 picks are and then that’s about it. The only real “deep” drafts in recent memory were in 2023 and 2015 where you could legitimately have 20-25 players end up somewhere in the top 15. 2003 wasn’t really supposed to be a strong draft at all IIRC but it’s top 5 in hindsight.

2017 was stated to be a weak draft and 2019 a strong draft. 2019 is turning out to be one of the worst drafts since the turn of the century and 2017 being in the top 10. Similarly, 2014 was stated to be a weak year and 2016 almost as good as 2015 by some scouts and looking back it’s been the complete opposite.

The 03 draft was known to be absolutely loaded.

Without googling I can't recall it specifics but there was some rule change pertaining to draftable age for kids in American college so there were a bunch of good players who were suddenly eligible so it was like a draft class and a half.

I think we all did. The hype was crazy. I watched every single SHL game that year and I was just buzzing. His rookie season was the best ever franchise history. Gave so much to look forward to. I gave him a ton of excuses myself but it stopped the moment he stopped trying out there and his compete levels became non existent.

This just shows a lack of understanding of the nuance of the game.

The problem with Petey isn't 'effort'. You have literally never ever seen him coast back on a back check or give up the puck to avoid taking a hit.

It's being physically compromised, then not training right, and then losing his confidence entirely.

He's a proud athlete who has been able to trust his body his whole life.

So when he would make a read, he could just intuit that his body would do what he wanted it to do.

That combination, incredible hockey sense, superlative body control, a quick first step, a great shot, and the dexterity of a contortionist are what turned him into a star.

Currently, he doesn't have the physical attributes he's used to, his confidence is sapped. And the few times he does try things, he's getting jammed like a junior star learning his moves don't work at the NHL level.
-

I have seen him try cutbacks and get stuffed by like 4th line wingers who read it like a book.

When you lack confidence, you're just waiting for your move not to work.

The mind body connection is a fascinating thing. We can THINK we're playing our hardest, and end the game exhausted. We can THINK we're trying to be offensively daring, but that doesn't mean the output is the same.

I know that I have had stretches myself when playing where nothing I do works at all and I don't understand it.

Then something happens and I realize that I was making my first move and then pausing expecting to get checked and needing to back check, or else feeling like the player would know he was beaten and just quit.

When I find success again is when I'm incisive in my move and then already making the next one. It's a subtle but masssssive difference.

And I'm not comparing myself in anyway to an NHLer but I promise you that the psychology is the same.

Currently, he doesn't trust himself and he's trying not to hurt the team and trying to avoid humiliation.

He's hiding from the puck by 'doing the right thing' like giving the puck to a Tyler Myers and driving the net for a rebound.

In a vacuum, that's a 'smart' play. But an offensive driver who is feeling himself wants to be the one making the play, not the one supporting it.

And currently he's scared of failure, and so he's hiding from those opportunities.

It's hard to watch but I promise you nobody hates him more than he hates himself right now. I've been there and it infects your entire life and I didn't have a city ragging on me about the money I made. I was just a dude who felt like I was letting down my team.

He will come back from this a better and stronger player. But while I think he has more in him than he's mostly shown this year, he's not going to look like himself this year. He just won't. He needs a summer to train properly and remind himself who he is - a superstar in this league.

Think about how much Calgary regrets trading Sam Bennett for the equivalent of 2 2nds, right now? Like it looks appalling and it doesn't help them at all.

Dealing Petey just to 'get out of the deal' is a nightmare scenario and I pray that Alvin has bigger balls than that.

There's almost zero chance that at 26 he has just suddenly gone from being a top 7 center in the league to a JAG.

It feels like a long time we have been watching this because his poor play impacted the one time we have been relevant in ages, and because a year feels like a long time when you experience every day.

But assuming he gets his game back next year, by the end of his career this year won't even be a footnote unless we trade him for some bullshit and he humiliates us for 10 years.

I do not see why you’d even try to make the playoffs with this rag-tag line-up, you would get destroyed in the first round.

Should be tanking rest of this season even if you’re trying to retool, collecting assets and cap space, and then try to do things in the summer when it’s a lot easier to make trades etc.

This is video game thinking.

Team psychology matters, how a team sees themselves matters.

Currently we made the playoffs once and that either ends up being a fluke, or this year ends up being a weird year where shit didn't go right.

If we make the playoffs again, it helps cement in the players' minds that we are a playoff team at heart and are building off of that. Especially in a year where everything went wrong.

Now, I would still trade Boeser unless he wants to sign for a reasonable freight.

But this 'we need to tank' hair on fire shit is just immature video game thinking.

So is there anyone left who doesn't want to trade Pettersson? Im firmly on the trade Pettersson bandwagon now before we are stuck with the biggest dead weight contract in the history of the game. Crazy thing is I think we can still get a really nice package for him but for the love of god he has to be traded before his new contract kicks in

So sad to type that. I loved the hype around him the year before he came over and we were watching him kill the SHL

I am still firmly firmly on the ride this out and keep him bandwagon and I believe that time will show me to be correct.

There’s a huge risk either way. For me… he’s not the guy who will lead us to a cup, even before his issues. We don’t have players like Horvat or Miller to take a lot of the pressure off of him, I mean both those players are doing great with their new teams. This isn’t the market where he will turn it around. His mental toughness isn’t there to handle this market. Guys like Horvat and Miller thrived in it, Pettersson can’t if everything isn’t going peaches for him. Take in to count his contract and NMC are hands will be completely tied, we lose all leverage and will have to take back next to nothing in return and likely retain cap. It’s not worth it, imo. He sucks, it’s been over a year now and he’s play is getting worse! It’s one thing if he was getting better, he’s not.

Dude, Horvat has 41 points in 57 games for a team that is in absolute purgatory and it will only get worse for them.

I'm not saying he's been bad, but if you were following the Islanders you wouldn't be thrilled with him or where they are at. You just don't care about them and so at cursory glance with no emotional investment you're like 'eh they're fine'.

And MAGA moron Miller has ruined a dressing room, and has less than a point a game for another team that is out of the playoffs.

Neither of these guys are torching the league. You're just angry about our player and so the ex-girlfriend starts looking better. It's largely a cognitive bias.

Petey has been incredibly, heartbreakingly disappointing this year. I get that and I feel it too. But it's not because he doesn't care, and he's going to get it back.

He isn't some Jimmy Carson who can't wait to quit to be an accountant, nor is he an Alex Semin where he doesn't really give a shit and just rode natural gifts.

 

[Curm]

Re: Lalji, I've never paid much attention to his opinion on hockey, he's a football guy, but as a football coach he does have access to medical professionals who deal with sports related injuries and there may be some merit to these specific comments.

I think if you can get something like Cozens and a high pick for EP40 before the NTC kicks in, you take it. Sometimes it's addition by subtraction, and not being on the hook for that contract and player, is worth the potential risk of a downgrade on the ice. And who's to say EP40 ever consistently, year in year out, replicates his stellar year and half that was worthy of an $11.6 million salary? It's more likely to never be the same for him on or off the ice here.

 

[iFan]

8 million for Boeser is way too much! He’s on pace for a 56 pt season and we’re putting 8 million for 5 years on the table. Between that and Pettersson 11.6 million we’re screwed.

This management group has really messed this club up. We had Horvat, Miller and Pettersson and they traded the better two players and overpaid the dud.

 

[theguardianII]

Does anyone give a shit about Farhan Lalji's opinion on hockey? Genuinely, has he ever said something insightful? He's the kind of guy who probably can't name 10 players from every team in the league.

Our media peddles in drama and so a lot of them are gleeful that a star is struggling because it 'get's the people talking'.

I heard, I think it was David Amber, mentioning something about the Vancouver media being 'lucky' because there's so much to talk about this year.

I don't care about the media's experience or ease in writing a story. I would prefer nuanced and thoughtful analysis.

The media reporting are mostly employees of the Canuck's partner Rogers and most of the interviews now are by Canuck staff reporters. IMac's secret interviews could easily be scripted, most shows are.

The media here stood behind Petey until they looked like marketers for the Canucks. Dhali saying there is nothing behind the Miller/Pettersson skism even after they are duikng it out at practice, "oh that nothing it happens all the time", he insisted there was nothing behind the story UNTIL the team admitted there was. All that "believe me there is noting" suddenly became, "ya this has been going on for years" which most alert fans have known for years.

That isn't glee they are supporting, it is trying to divert attention from Allvin's mistake and utting the blame totally on the player. A player that didn't want to sign then that was threatened with a trade. That is on Allvin but the media is protecting him because if they don't they won't get access to the team

The 03 draft was known to be absolutely loaded.

Without googling I can't recall it specifics but there was some rule change pertaining to draftable age for kids in American college so there were a bunch of good players who were suddenly eligible so it was like a draft class and a half.

There are definitely deeper drafts year to year.

This just shows a lack of understanding of the nuance of the game.

The problem with Petey isn't 'effort'. You have literally never ever seen him coast back on a back check or give up the puck to avoid taking a hit.

It's being physically compromised, then not training right, and then losing his confidence entirely.

He's a proud athlete who has been able to trust his body his whole life.

So when he would make a read, he could just intuit that his body would do what he wanted it to do.

That combination, incredible hockey sense, superlative body control, a quick first step, a great shot, and the dexterity of a contortionist are what turned him into a star.

Currently, he doesn't have the physical attributes he's used to, his confidence is sapped. And the few times he does try things, he's getting jammed like a junior star learning his moves don't work at the NHL level.
-

I have seen him try cutbacks and get stuffed by like 4th line wingers who read it like a book.

When you lack confidence, you're just waiting for your move not to work.

The mind body connection is a fascinating thing. We can THINK we're playing our hardest, and end the game exhausted. We can THINK we're trying to be offensively daring, but that doesn't mean the output is the same.

I know that I have had stretches myself when playing where nothing I do works at all and I don't understand it.

Then something happens and I realize that I was making my first move and then pausing expecting to get checked and needing to back check, or else feeling like the player would know he was beaten and just quit.

When I find success again is when I'm incisive in my move and then already making the next one. It's a subtle but masssssive difference.

And I'm not comparing myself in anyway to an NHLer but I promise you that the psychology is the same.

Currently, he doesn't trust himself and he's trying not to hurt the team and trying to avoid humiliation.

He's hiding from the puck by 'doing the right thing' like giving the puck to a Tyler Myers and driving the net for a rebound.

In a vacuum, that's a 'smart' play. But an offensive driver who is feeling himself wants to be the one making the play, not the one supporting it.

And currently he's scared of failure, and so he's hiding from those opportunities.

It's hard to watch but I promise you nobody hates him more than he hates himself right now. I've been there and it infects your entire life and I didn't have a city ragging on me about the money I made. I was just a dude who felt like I was letting down my team.

He will come back from this a better and stronger player. But while I think he has more in him than he's mostly shown this year, he's not going to look like himself this year. He just won't. He needs a summer to train properly and remind himself who he is - a superstar in this league.

Think about how much Calgary regrets trading Sam Bennett for the equivalent of 2 2nds, right now? Like it looks appalling and it doesn't help them at all.

Dealing Petey just to 'get out of the deal' is a nightmare scenario and I pray that Alvin has bigger balls than that.

There's almost zero chance that at 26 he has just suddenly gone from being a top 7 center in the league to a JAG.

It feels like a long time we have been watching this because his poor play impacted the one time we have been relevant in ages, and because a year feels like a long time when you experience every day.

But assuming he gets his game back next year, by the end of his career this year won't even be a footnote unless we trade him for some bullshit and he humiliates us for 10 years.

You know just about everything you describe could be attributed to PCS. Post concussion syndrome.
The player might not even be aware of that being an issue and it isn't something that a trainer or doctor can just look into the eyes and determine.

A sudden lack of timing, fatigue on and off, slower decision times, more bad decisions, certainly a lack of confidence and frustration at not being able to do what he knows he should be able to do.

All this happens like flipping a switch, suddenly. And that again certainly appears to be Petey's time line.

His problems have been on going for a lot longer than a year. Missing summer training altogether isn't an excuse now, he has had months to play himself into shape. Confidence issues? How is that solved? By giving him more opportunity to fail on PPs?

And yes, next year he is 28 yrs old, that is old for hockey. His prime years have past him. He is a 7 year veteran that appears to be on the downside.

Do I think he could have a renaissance with another team? Yes, I do. He isn't suited for Tocchet's system.

Vancouver has it's regrets too, Cam Neely only what was really bad about that was he was scoring at the time and only 20 yrs old when traded.

Even though Petey may have the potential to be good again, his presence allows for less than scoring. Desperation by the team pushes him ahead of lesser paid players that are having success.

This is video game thinking.

Team psychology matters, how a team sees themselves matters.

Currently we made the playoffs once and that either ends up being a fluke, or this year ends up being a weird year where shit didn't go right.

If we make the playoffs again, it helps cement in the players' minds that we are a playoff team at heart and are building off of that. Especially in a year where everything went wrong.

Now, I would still trade Boeser unless he wants to sign for a reasonable freight.

But this 'we need to tank' hair on fire shit is just immature video game thinking.

Team psychology does make a difference. A losing culture can spread like a virus and is really hard to get rid of. The Oilers are still dealing with it a bit. Toronto did until the Shanaplan

Time alone doesn't cure the infection, time robs players of their speed and skill and their confidence. After years of trying hard to be better they can come to accept that losing is the outcome, they have a limit. That is something younger players haven't reached yet, acceptance that is just an entertainment industry so they don't go nuts with losing all the time.

Boeser thing is smoke and mirrors IMO. He asked twice after signing that last contract to be traded.
Forget the word salads about liking it here or whatever, that is standard fare for any player and what the league wants. They can't have player demanding trades all the time, they have to look like they still have control. Both sides will not EVER say anything negative.

This tank stuff. They miss the playoffs this year and try real hard to draft Misa. Next year they don't need to tank, they just trade Hughes, who all the world knows what he wants, for the #1 overall, maybe McKenna and that team gets Hughes for a full season. If it happens to be close to home he might sign with that team for 8 years because the Canucks traded him before the last year of his contract is up.

Besides what is the difference in finishing out of the playoffs by 4 points or 14 points?

A question how did the last Canuck rebuild go? Or tank(s)?

I am still firmly firmly on the ride this out and keep him bandwagon and I believe that time will show me to be correct.

I don't have that many years left to wait until he might spring back. Even if he did there isn't anything to spring back to, no depth, no real high end prospects and not enough of them.

Dude, Horvat has 41 points in 57 games for a team that is in absolute purgatory and it will only get worse for them.

I'm not saying he's been bad, but if you were following the Islanders you wouldn't be thrilled with him or where they are at. You just don't care about them and so at cursory glance with no emotional investment you're like 'eh they're fine'.

And MAGA moron Miller has ruined a dressing room, and has less than a point a game for another team that is out of the playoffs.

Neither of these guys are torching the league. You're just angry about our player and so the ex-girlfriend starts looking better. It's largely a cognitive bias.

Petey has been incredibly, heartbreakingly disappointing this year. I get that and I feel it too. But it's not because he doesn't care, and he's going to get it back.

He isn't some Jimmy Carson who can't wait to quit to be an accountant, nor is he an Alex Semin where he doesn't really give a shit and just rode natural gifts.

Miller is over a point per game 10pts -9 games

Petey's performance isn't close to being heartbreaking to me. It is a game and the team is called the Vancouver Canucks, not the Vancouver home boys club or the Pettersson and Hughes's

This market will never let him back and the team management, Allvin, Tocchet have already burned the bridges with their ridiculing him in pubic about not being mature enough to play good, his play overall and their disappointment with the caveat of they will make changes.

If he keeps playing as he is, a fact, then what Lalji says is probably correct. No team can have a 11.6 million dollar 50 pt man even if the cap is 130 million
If you are waiting until his cap hit equals NHL production levels then it is probably 6 to 7 years in the futures when 3rd line players are getting around 9 to 10 million, the good one's

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Markus is right, he’s expecting his first move to fail.

But all you fans are doing the same thing wanting to pass him off. I will say I concur, I hope our management has bigger stones than most of us here do.