Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | 4 Nations Break Edition

[Just A Bit Outside]

Issue with teams like that is they are going to keep it until they have a bigger need somewhere else. I'm a little surprised that teams don't move younger middling prospects around more often to see if another environmental will help. Obviously neither team wants to lose the trades though.

Management needs to not be idiots and draft a center. Last time they drafted a center in their first 2 rounds was Pettersson in 2017. Horvat in 2013.

Oh I agree. I'm 100% onboard keeping the 2025 1st and drafting a C.

Desperately needed IMO.

 

[wonton15]

I doubt Pettersson-Chytil-Suter-Blueger strikes fear into many opposing teams if those are your centers.

It’s not ideal, but did you read the rest of my post? It’s hinging on Pettersson regaining most of his form, and the ability to somehow acquire/sign an elite winger like Rantanen to offset some weakness in our top 6 C’s. Not likely, but it’s not an impossible path IMO.

Teams have won with worse on paper.

 

[Hodgy]

It's easy to dunk on Lindholm, he hasn't been good with BOS. He looks lost.

On balance though, he was a big, right shot 46 point defensive centre here. Played in all situations. At $7m AAV, it's about $1m~ too rich. He would have gotten at least $6m anywhere else. This team made that bet. He walked.

Now, this team is reportedly after Josh Norris: A 51 point 2way C that is fast, but not big. $8m AAV. Shoulder held together with tape, and is a rumoured cap dump.

Looks like a similar bet made by people paid to watch games...

Josh Norris is 25 years old and Elias Lindholm is 30 years old. Lindholm has six more years after this year on his contract, Norris has five years left on his contract after this year. Norris and Lindholm are basically the exact same height and weight (Lindholm being five pounds heavier). Lindholm is on a .51 ppg pace this year, Norris is on a .62 ppg pace this year. You are, of course, correct that Norris has injury concerns.

Lindholm is a trainwreck right now, scoring at a 42 point pace and making 7.7 million dollars per year. And you can reasonably expect his play to decrease over the term of his contract.

Norris is scoring at a better pace right now, and you can reasonably expect him to at least continue this pace for the balance of his contract, and probably even improve.

Its a terrible comparison basically solely because Norris is five years younger and has one fewer years left on his contract. Norris definitely has an injury risk but at least you can LTIR him, potentially LTIRetire him. Lindholm just sucks and you are stuck with him for 6 more years.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

It's easy to dunk on Lindholm, he hasn't been good with BOS. He looks lost.

On balance though, he was a big, right shot 46 point defensive centre here. Played in all situations. At $7m AAV, it's about $1m~ too rich. He would have gotten at least $6m anywhere else. This team made that bet. He walked.

Now, this team is reportedly after Josh Norris: A 51 point 2way C that is fast, but not big. $8m AAV. Shoulder held together with tape, and is a rumoured cap dump.

Looks like a similar bet made by people paid to watch games...

Wait, what? Lindholm is listed as 6'1" 202lbs, Norris is 6'2" 196lb, they are essentially the same size.

I doubt Pettersson-ChytilCrosby-Suter-Blueger strikes fear into many opposing teams if those are your centers.

Fixed it for you

 

[Jerry the great]

It's easy to dunk on Lindholm, he hasn't been good with BOS. He looks lost.

On balance though, he was a big, right shot 46 point defensive centre here. Played in all situations. At $7m AAV, it's about $1m~ too rich. He would have gotten at least $6m anywhere else. This team made that bet. He walked.

Now, this team is reportedly after Josh Norris: A 51 point 2way C that is fast, but not big. $8m AAV. Shoulder held together with tape, and is a rumoured cap dump.

Looks like a similar bet made by people paid to watch games...

Lindholm is smaller than Norris. And has no upside whatsoever....the best Boston can hope for is a flattish decline curve for as long as possible.

I don't really love the Norris idea...it's very risky, but at least he has upside offensively and is a strong PP contributor. it would have to involve money (Hoglander/Soucy) going the other way to soften the financial impact and not much else (maybe a 2nd round pick).

People dunk on Boston for signing him because what they are witnessing now is what we witnessed for the bulk of his time in Vancouver. He turned it up enough for a few weeks in the playoffs to get paid and now he's back to playing meh hockey. Plenty of people called this in real time and it's playing out exactly as forecast.

It'll be interesting to see what Evans gets paid going forward, because he is a better player at ES/SH and will probably cost half as much. I think a case can be made that we should be adding a top 6 winger (or two if we move Boeser) who play with pace AND bringing in someone like Evans (or McLeod if you could get him) to eat (and win) the hard defensive minutes.

 

[Hodgy]

Lindholm is smaller than Norris. And has no upside whatsoever....the best Boston can hope for is a flattish decline curve for as long as possible.

I don't really love the Norris idea...it's very risky, but at least he has upside offensively and is a strong PP contributor. it would have to involve money (Hoglander/Soucy) going the other way to soften the financial impact and not much else (maybe a 2nd round pick).

People dunk on Boston for signing him because what they are witnessing now is what we witnessed for the bulk of his time in Vancouver. He turned it up enough for a few weeks in the playoffs to get paid and now he's back to playing meh hockey. Plenty of people called this in real time and it's playing out exactly as forecast.

It'll be interesting to see what Evans gets paid going forward, because he is a better player at ES/SH and will probably cost half as much. I think a case can be made that we should be adding a top 6 winger (or two if we move Boeser) who play with pace AND bringing in someone like Evans (or McLeod if you could get him) to eat (and win) the hard defensive minutes.

Ya, in a Norris vs. Lindholm decision, Norris is a player that is OK right now and might be better or worse value over his contract once you weigh age and potential against injuries. But Lindholm is a bad right now and might be worse or better over his contract. Like, I don't know why you'd pick the latter guy.

 

[ManVanFan]

It’s not ideal, but did you read the rest of my post? It’s hinging on Pettersson regaining most of his form, and the ability to somehow acquire/sign an elite winger like Rantanen to offset some weakness in our top 6 C’s. Not likely, but it’s not an impossible path IMO.

Teams have won with worse on paper.

I'd just prefer a 3C that is a little tougher, wins a few more face offs, scores a few more points regularly.

 

[Bobby9]

It’s not ideal, but did you read the rest of my post? It’s hinging on Pettersson regaining most of his form, and the ability to somehow acquire/sign an elite winger like Rantanen to offset some weakness in our top 6 C’s. Not likely, but it’s not an impossible path IMO.

Teams have won with worse on paper.

Reality based pls

 

[Bleach Clean]

Lindholm is smaller than Norris. And has no upside whatsoever....the best Boston can hope for is a flattish decline curve for as long as possible.

I don't really love the Norris idea...it's very risky, but at least he has upside offensively and is a strong PP contributor. it would have to involve money (Hoglander/Soucy) going the other way to soften the financial impact and not much else (maybe a 2nd round pick).

People dunk on Boston for signing him because what they are witnessing now is what we witnessed for the bulk of his time in Vancouver. He turned it up enough for a few weeks in the playoffs to get paid and now he's back to playing meh hockey. Plenty of people called this in real time and it's playing out exactly as forecast.

It'll be interesting to see what Evans gets paid going forward, because he is a better player at ES/SH and will probably cost half as much. I think a case can be made that we should be adding a top 6 winger (or two if we move Boeser) who play with pace AND bringing in someone like Evans (or McLeod if you could get him) to eat (and win) the hard defensive minutes.

Lindholm is far stronger than Norris and uses his size. (Answer here @sandwichbird2023)

The hope is that Norris would improve offensively, yes, but the downside risks far outweigh the potential upside. Just like it has with Lindholm. Actually, it might be worse because it's age related decline vs indefinite time missed due to injury. Lindholm would at least play.

Ironically enough, we are seeing the downside risks for both players play out in real time.

I know people called it. It was a risk to re-sign him to $7m AAV, but the need for 2C capable centres is real. He got paid for that pedigree and failed to deliver. Still, this team is now chasing that ability in cap dump form anyways.

Evans has not shown 2C level ability until now. (Though I've liked his play)

@Hodgy Answers above.

 

[TruGr1t]

I'm going to assume management is now glad not to have Lindholm signed until he is 37, and will probably not circle back to eat that bullet in retrospect. You can probably get an older top-six centre on a much shorter deal if guys in their 30s are your thing.

 

[wonton15]

Reality based pls

Pettersson Miller Lindholm down the middle?

 

[VanJack]

Unless there's some deal out there that 'blows their socks off' I really hope the Canucks don't trade their 2025 first round draft pick.

If they do, it would be the fourth time in six NHL entry drafts that they would have traded their first round pick. I'm not saying that every one of those picks would have ended up like Lekerimakki (2022) or Wilander (2023), but coughing up four first round picks really hollows out your prospect pipeline in a hurry.

They need prospect depth everywhere, and they should definitely be scouring the draft list for centers and even another goaltender.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Pettersson Miller Lindholm down the middle?

Sure if we can give up a 5th and Boston retains 60% of his salary. While he played ok in the playoffs, that ship has sailed.

But it would be fun to buy out his contract in 2 or 3 years knowing Bost would be paying the bigger portion for the next 10 years.

Unless there's some deal out there that 'blows their socks off' I really hope the Canucks don't trade their 2025 first round draft pick.

If they do, it would be the fourth time in six NHL entry drafts that they would have traded their first round pick. I'm not saying that every one of those picks would have ended up like Lekerimakki (2022) or Wilander (2023), but coughing up four first round picks really hollows out your prospect pipeline in a hurry.

They need prospect depth everywhere, and they should definitely be scouring the draft list for centers and even another goaltender.

you never know will goaltenders. they tend to take longer to develop, and also there are usually guys in the system in front of them that means they don't reach their peaks until later 20's. We have 4 in the system, all which of shown some level of promise at various times.

That said, we should retain our picks, and keep drafting a goalie at least every other year.

 

[rypper]

if guys in their 30s are your thing.

@Jerry the great

 

[StickShift]

I'm going to assume management is now glad not to have Lindholm signed until he is 37, and will probably not circle back to eat that bullet in retrospect. You can probably get an older top-six centre on a much shorter deal if guys in their 30s are your thing.

I still think they will prioritize Brayden Schenn. He ticks a lot of the boxes that this management group has prioritized before.

Whether he can actually execute in that role is another question.

 

[ephmrl]

Unless there's some deal out there that 'blows their socks off' I really hope the Canucks don't trade their 2025 first round draft pick.

If they do, it would be the fourth time in six NHL entry drafts that they would have traded their first round pick. I'm not saying that every one of those picks would have ended up like Lekerimakki (2022) or Wilander (2023), but coughing up four first round picks really hollows out your prospect pipeline in a hurry.

They need prospect depth everywhere, and they should definitely be scouring the draft list for centers and even another goaltender.

The 2025 draft looks to be incredibly weak. If there was a year to trade the 1st to strengthen the roster this is it. The primary focus of management should be strengthening the roster to give the team the best chance of winning while we have Hughes on an undervalued contract.

A mid-to-late 1st in a weak draft is very unlikely to make a difference in the competitiveness of the roster during our window with Hughes.

 

[Lat]

Unless there's some deal out there that 'blows their socks off' I really hope the Canucks don't trade their 2025 first round draft pick.

If they do, it would be the fourth time in six NHL entry drafts that they would have traded their first round pick. I'm not saying that every one of those picks would have ended up like Lekerimakki (2022) or Wilander (2023), but coughing up four first round picks really hollows out your prospect pipeline in a hurry.

They need prospect depth everywhere, and they should definitely be scouring the draft list for centers and even another goaltender.

I actually think the opposite - the Canucks need to trade their 2025 1st in order to bolster up the missing forward depth with Miller gone. I'd even say that Lekk is fair game to flip.

The best defenceman in franchise history in Hughes only has two seasons left in his contract. We need to do everything possible to compete in this rapidly shrinking window.

And even if somebody like Norris is not the ideal target, the fact that it might make Hughes happy since he's one of his besties means it probably would be worth gambling on.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I doubt Pettersson-Chytil-Suter-Blueger strikes fear into many opposing teams if those are your centers.

yes it is a systemic weakness that we have no big physical shutdown centres and i am not sure adding one who is not a true 2c helps us address that because we're still so diluted in that position.

if you look at the centres we need to get through, mcdavid, eichel, rnh, lowry, scheiffle, kopitar, kazri, mckinnon, there's not much point in spending a lot of treasure on a centre unless we like his chances matched up against those guys.

the list of candidates who might be available who could move the dial is small: schenn, o'reilly, bjugstad, and gourde come to mind. we could take a chance on a young guy.

 

[Jerry the great]

@Jerry the great

I'm married with children living in the suburbs...I'll take whatever i can get.

 

[Bobby9]

It’s gonna be 18 year old Sam Bennett if he hits the market.

A terrible deal

 

[sensodyne17]

Sorry that was at 4 am, my wording was poor.

I have no problem trading Boeser.

I have a major problem trading our 1st, 2nd and prospects to "move the needle". My point was intended to be that garnering draft picks is preferable to constantly spending that capital, unless you are truly in a position that it is agreed you will likely be making it to at least the conference finals. Which no one thinks we are.

Edit - and don't think I am against doing "something". Was very happy with the MP3 trade, and extending. Sorry that Miller had to go, but he had to go. And I would trade just about anyone and anything if someone. was willing to overpay us.

Oh I agree. I'm 100% onboard keeping the 2025 1st and drafting a C.

Desperately needed IMO.

Unless there's some deal out there that 'blows their socks off' I really hope the Canucks don't trade their 2025 first round draft pick.

If they do, it would be the fourth time in six NHL entry drafts that they would have traded their first round pick. I'm not saying that every one of those picks would have ended up like Lekerimakki (2022) or Wilander (2023), but coughing up four first round picks really hollows out your prospect pipeline in a hurry.

They need prospect depth everywhere, and they should definitely be scouring the draft list for centers and even another goaltender.

I'm sorry guys.... using that pick would be a catastrophic disaster.

The goal is to build the best team around Quinn Hughes so that when he's a UFA, it'll be more likely for him to stay. Picking someone who may not make a tangible impact in a weak draft for another 3-4 years is a fruitless endeavour.

Here's how you guys should look at this.

Quinn Hughes leaves - this team is screwed and needs a full rebuild

Quinn Hughes stays - this team can realistically compete for the next decade.

A 2025 draft pick will NOT convince Quinn Hughes to stay.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I'm sorry guys.... using that pick would be a catastrophic disaster.

The goal is to build the best team around Quinn Hughes so that when he's a UFA, it'll be more likely for him to stay. Picking someone who may not make a tangible impact in a weak draft for another 3-4 years is a fruitless endeavour.

Here's how you guys should look at this.

Quinn Hughes leaves - this team is screwed and needs a full rebuild

Quinn Hughes stays - this team can realistically compete for the next decade.

A 2025 draft pick will NOT convince Quinn Hughes to stay.

Don't be so sensotive.

 

[sensodyne17]

Don't be so sensotive.

Oh there's no shot they keep their draft pick.

I, amongst many other fans/insiders, expect that pick to be dealt.

I'm just operating in reality.

 

[Josepho]

I was originally leaning towards making the pick this year but based on all the rankings I've seen, it seems pretty unlikely that anyone we get around 19th overall will project as a top 6 center for us (William Horcoff in round 2 seems like a fun pick to roll the dice on though).

We should be exploring every other option to get a young center (trading up, packaging the pick for someone) before we consider making that pick.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Mentions about Keeping the 1st and/or utilizing Cap space to add draft picks, are both ridiculousness and not based in reality