Canucks Managerial Thread | Part 19 | Maybe we are in on Tallon, maybe not? *Post #61

[valkynax]

So news on Canucks trying to get Michal Kempny, a D-man from KHL...

said this so many times it's lost all meaning, but...

who, in the HELL, is this guy???????

Our team is becoming the dump ground for all fringe NHLers who couldn't make it to other teams for the life of them or what????

 

[kanucks25]

So news on Canucks trying to get Michal Kempny, a D-man from KHL...

said this so many times it's lost all meaning, but...

who, in the HELL, is this guy???????

Our team is becoming the dump ground for all fringe NHLers who couldn't make it to other teams for the life of them or what????

It's great if management is exploring all avenues when it comes to scouting.

Free assets like this don't hurt but eventually one of them will have to turn out because otherwise we're just wasting valuable contract spots.

Not sure how realistic it is that we sign this guy considering the logjam we have at the depth D position.

 

[rune74]

Still ignoring my questions eh?

Oh and another example: Dany Heatley

Luongo's long and storied divorce from the Canucks had made fans less forgiving of "sitting" on an asset.

Getting fixated on this trade without looking at context may make your argument stronger but it is simply not the full story.



Also, not related to the poster, but what is with this silly calling people liars in responses? I see that as a good response for a playground, but for discussion it isn't really constructive and doesn't come across as very mature.

 

[rune74]

So news on Canucks trying to get Michal Kempny, a D-man from KHL...

said this so many times it's lost all meaning, but...

who, in the HELL, is this guy???????

Our team is becoming the dump ground for all fringe NHLers who couldn't make it to other teams for the life of them or what????

If you can find a player who you can pay a lot less for from another league you do it. It helps with the cap situation and quite frankly it's not like we have a ton of ready and waiting talent coming up thru are years of great drafting.

 

[racerjoe]

So as the AGM why does Benning get so much heat for Boston's drafting? And why is that seemingly equally weighted to his performance as the scouting director in Buffalo? Because Chiarelli said Benning helped him with drafting?

Because on the Bruins website, the writeup for JB said so. It has been posted here a few times. He was also the main media guy for all prospect related news. There was also a quote or two from Chia saying so... but yeah, besides that it was not much.

 

[y2kcanucks]

What a joke.

The guy put in a dozen years of great service putting his body on the line for this organization and as he approaches free agency and wants to win in the twighlight of his career Y2K is gonna play hardball. Give it a rest.

Lol it's not a joke. It's a perfectly acceptable stance. If Kesler would report, fine. He can play. Otherwise if he refuses to report I'm not going to move him just because he decides to be a little *****. Benning folded like a tent and got bent over in the trade.

 

[rune74]

Lol it's not a joke. It's a perfectly acceptable stance. If Kesler would report, fine. He can play. Otherwise if he refuses to report I'm not going to move him just because he decides to be a little *****. Benning folded like a tent and got bent over in the trade.

Notice how you ignored my reasoning behind why it happened....perhaps because you do know that is most likely the case, but it doesn't further what you have said.

 

[racerjoe]

Notice how you ignored my reasoning behind why it happened....perhaps because you do know that is most likely the case, but it doesn't further what you have said.

For the sake of argument I will concede your point. Does it make it the correct move? People didn't like the twins and wanted to trade them for Jokinen. Should we have done that to?

 

[SgtToody]

If you can find a player who you can pay a lot less for from another league you do it. It helps with the cap situation and quite frankly it's not like we have a ton of ready and waiting talent coming up thru are years of great drafting.

The likes of Bartkowski, Weber and Hamhuis will clear room for these low risk, mystery D-men from Europe. Maybe one of them turns out to be a Lars Lingren type (or a Zetterstrom - you can't win them all)... Biega is best suited as AHL/injury replacement role, while I wouldn't be surprised if Benning feels Tryamkin needs 25-40 games of Utica to grasp North American hockey at its fullest (ie you work your tail off on and off the ice to stay in the NHL)...

 

[y2kcanucks]

Notice how you ignored my reasoning behind why it happened....perhaps because you do know that is most likely the case, but it doesn't further what you have said.

What reasoning? Because he wants to win? Okay...so what? You want to win? Great. There are a number of contending teams out there. Open your list.

 

[y2kcanucks]

The likes of Bartkowski, Weber and Hamhuis will clear room for these low risk, mystery D-men from Europe. Maybe one of them turns out to be a Lars Lingren type (or a Zetterstrom - you can't win them all)... Biega is best suited as AHL/injury replacement role, while I wouldn't be surprised if Benning feels Tryamkin needs 25-40 games of Utica to grasp North American hockey at its fullest (ie you work your tail off on and off the ice to stay in the NHL)...

It's not low risk when you're penciling these guys in to your top 6.

 

[rune74]

For the sake of argument I will concede your point. Does it make it the correct move? People didn't like the twins and wanted to trade them for Jokinen. Should we have done that to?

Do you honestly think that is a similar situation?

 

[rune74]

What reasoning? Because he wants to win? Okay...so what? You want to win? Great. There are a number of contending teams out there. Open your list.

Please tell me you purposely ignored my point.

No, the city couldn't take another high profile player causing turmoil. If the Luongo thing hadn't have happened then I bet we would have sit on him....(maybe)...but it did happen, it was a PR nightmare that the team wanted to avoid. I think that's a pretty logical consideration, which you are purposefully ignoring.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Please tell me you purposely ignored my point.

No, the city couldn't take another high profile player causing turmoil. If the Luongo thing hadn't have happened then I bet we would have sit on him....(maybe)...but it did happen, it was a PR nightmare that the team wanted to avoid. I think that's a pretty logical consideration, which you are purposefully ignoring.

But after Benning does his numerous other stupid trades he comes out and says he doesn't base his decisions on fan reactions. So that puts the kibosh on your entire argument right there.

If fans not having a stomach for certain things had an actual impact on a hockey team, I think the 3 Stooges would be fired by now.

 

[rune74]

But after Benning does his numerous other stupid trades he comes out and says he doesn't base his decisions on fan reactions. So that puts the kibosh on your entire argument right there.

If fans not having a stomach for certain things had an actual impact on a hockey team, I think the 3 Stooges would be fired by now.

No, you just moved the goal posts again to ignore the fact I gave you.

 

[sting101]

Luongo's long and storied divorce from the Canucks had made fans less forgiving of "sitting" on an asset.

Getting fixated on this trade without looking at context may make your argument stronger but it is simply not the full story.



Also, not related to the poster, but what is with this silly calling people liars in responses? I see that as a good response for a playground, but for discussion it isn't really constructive and doesn't come across as very mature.

Yes and you can read into it as you want, but I do remember the reply by Benning when asked about all the moves he made at the draft in June 2014 and he replied that.." I don't know what the previous regime was like but I like to get things done."

3 biggest concerns for this franchise at the time were. 1 Kesler wanting out. 2. No goalie and 3. Needing a goal scorer to help our anemic offense.
Seems to me he addressed them quickly decisively and walked away with
Miller Vrbata Bonino.

It's a good point about Luongo. After getting thoroughly bent over and embarrassed you can bet Aquilini wanted no part of Kesler and another saga. It's already a fact that Luongo's value decreased as they waited (CBA related of course) and Kesler's had dropped from Anaheim in that the 10th pick was now off the board. Not only that.....Spezza was available and thankfully we got what we did instead of what Ottawa got as the secondary piece on the market.

 

[rune74]

Yes and you can read into it as you want, but I do remember the reply by Benning when asked about all the moves he made at the draft in June 2014 and he replied that.." I don't know what the previous regime was like but I like to get things done."

3 biggest concerns for this franchise at the time were. 1 Kesler wanting out. 2. No goalie and 3. Needing a goal scorer to help our anemic offense.
Seems to me he addressed them quickly decisively and walked away with
Miller Vrbata Bonino instead of Kesler Booth and Garrison.

It's a good point about Luongo. After getting thoroughly bent over and embarrassed you can bet Aquilini wanted no part of Kesler and another saga. It's already a fact that Luongo's value decreased as they waited (CBA related of course) and Kesler's had dropped from Anaheim in that the 10th pick was now off the board. Not only that.....Spezza was available and thankfully we got what we did instead of what Ottawa got as the secondary piece on the market.

That's my thinking as well...now, that's not to say he didn't over pay for Miller, but you can see the logic in why he went that route and why Kesler had to go.

 

[sting101]

That's my thinking as well...now, that's not to say he didn't over pay for Miller, but you can see the logic in why he went that route and why Kesler had to go.

Concur

 

[y2kcanucks]

No, you just moved the goal posts again to ignore the fact I gave you.

Not at all. You can say that all you like since you don't like the answer though, but that doesn't make it true. It actually completely addresses your post.

 

[drax0s]

Because on the Bruins website, the writeup for JB said so. It has been posted here a few times. He was also the main media guy for all prospect related news. There was also a quote or two from Chia saying so... but yeah, besides that it was not much.

From what I've seen, the old Bruins website didn't say that. It says "player evaluation", but specifies trades and free agent signings - it doesn't specifically mention amateur scouting. Here, have a read for yourself - it describes his duties as:

In that position, he serves as an advisor to General Manager Peter Chiarelli on all matters pertaining to player evaluation, trades and free agent signings, in addition to assisting the General Manager in overseeing all individuals in their specific duties for the Bruins.

2011 profile archive
2013 profile archive
2014 profile archive

However, Keith Gretzky, Scott Bradley and Scott Fitzgerald all got nods towards handling amateur scouting.

 

[The Drop]

Yes and you can read into it as you want, but I do remember the reply by Benning when asked about all the moves he made at the draft in June 2014 and he replied that.." I don't know what the previous regime was like but I like to get things done."

3 biggest concerns for this franchise at the time were. 1 Kesler wanting out. 2. No goalie and 3. Needing a goal scorer to help our anemic offense.
Seems to me he addressed them quickly decisively and walked away with
Miller Vrbata Bonino.

It's a good point about Luongo. After getting thoroughly bent over and embarrassed you can bet Aquilini wanted no part of Kesler and another saga. It's already a fact that Luongo's value decreased as they waited (CBA related of course) and Kesler's had dropped from Anaheim in that the 10th pick was now off the board. Not only that.....Spezza was available and thankfully we got what we did instead of what Ottawa got as the secondary piece on the market.

"I like to get things done " is code for "I have no idea how to make a proper trade and I'll just give up more than any other team so that I get what I want""

Great job Jimbo, Bleeding assets has put this team down such an excellent path.

The fact that people are using this quote as a positive as well as using Miller as a positive is ridiculous.

All he's done is be a cap team, claim his team is a 100pt team and then turn out to be the 3rd worst team in the league. Get 'er done Jim

 

[rune74]

Not at all. You can say that all you like since you don't like the answer though, but that doesn't make it true. It actually completely addresses your post.

Sorry, I don't agree....I'm confused why you can't/won't see the correlation with Luongo and Kesler here. I feel you are doing summersaults to not see it.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Sorry, I don't agree....I'm confused why you can't/won't see the correlation with Luongo and Kesler here. I feel you are doing summersaults to not see it.

Not sure why you wouldn't agree, the evidence is there. But then again...

No, there is no correlation. There were two different management groups. Our current management group of bumbling idiots even came out and stated explicitly that they don't base their decisions off of how the fans will react. Ergo, fan response to holding on to Kesler wouldn't have mattered. They even stated that they don't know how the previous regime handled things.

But no, you're right. It's better that Benning just gave away Kesler quickly and took an awful trade to do so. Hooray we got Sbisa!

 

[rune74]

Not sure why you wouldn't agree, the evidence is there. But then again...

No, there is no correlation. There were two different management groups. Our current management group of bumbling idiots even came out and stated explicitly that they don't base their decisions off of how the fans will react. Ergo, fan response to holding on to Kesler wouldn't have mattered. They even stated that they don't know how the previous regime handled things.

But no, you're right. It's better that Benning just gave away Kesler quickly and took an awful trade to do so. Hooray we got Sbisa!

All over the map again....you do know it's the same owners of the team right? Do you think for a second they wanted another Luongo situation? Do you think a new management team wanted that.

But, if you want to believe a business is fine with continuing black eyes in the PR department, regardless of the unrealistic nature of that claim, then I guess we have to agree to disagree.

 

[y2kcanucks]

All over the map again....you do know it's the same owners of the team right? Do you think for a second they wanted another Luongo situation? Do you think a new management team wanted that.

But, if you want to believe a business is fine with continuing black eyes in the PR department, regardless of the unrealistic nature of that claim, then I guess we have to agree to disagree.

The only one who's all over the map is you because you keep changing your stance. I'm addressing the holes in your argument. That's not all over the map (might want to look up what that means).

I think accepting a bad trade for your most valuable trade asset is the worst possible move the team could make.