Confirmed with Link: Canucks announce HC Rick Tocchet will Not Return

[sting101]

Or he knows this team is a sinking ship and doesnt want to stay here.
I think we might have to accept the inevitability that Hughes is gone after this year too. Tocchet leaving all but confirms it.

It also might just signal that he doesn't want to align with Pettersson as his go to forward and was at odds over the roster composition and pathway to success.

Plus whatever went down this year will likely not ever completely disappear and he recognized he was part of that and the wound may never heal. And moving on allows the team to foster growth without him stuck in the middle trying to fix it or be fake about it.

Hughes is smart enough to realize that what went down and the disconnect still exists at the top and maybe Tocc moving on allows a fresh start. it's truly his team if he wants it.

I think how some of the top players collaborate this off season and next year in the first couple months will make the decision for him and obvious to us fans, I wouldn't say it's confirmed but certainly is likely given this seasons events and discussion

 

[F A N]

I think that's just a deflection. Like, did they just wake up one morning and realize they weren't going to exercise their team option? I can't imagine that was the case. More likely that they have never intended to exercise the team option. I think they really just didn't envision a scenario where Tochett would not re-sign if offered a satisfactory contract. And the fact that this happened speaks volumes in terms of what Tochett thinks of the organization.

But they did negotiate a club option. I'm not saying there was a point this past year where the team intended or anticipated that Tocchet to coach out his option year but it's there. There's nothing stopping the Canucks and Tocchet from negotiating an extension that replaces the option year. It also makes absolutely no difference to us fans whether the team negotiates an extension before exercising the club option or they exercise the club option and then negotiates an extension.

If the Canucks wanted him back, they should have picked up the club option while negotiating an extension with Tocchet especially if, like you said, the team didn't envision a scneario where Tocchet would not re-sign. It's simlar to a qualifying offer to a 10.2(c) player. Not picking up Tocchet's club option is akin to Tallon not faxing in the qualifying offers (and Tallon works for the Canucks now).

 

[Bubbles]

People are WAY overanalyzing things here (to be expected from Canuck fans, lol.) Say Tocc stays, and the team doesn't make the playoffs next year, the likelihood of him getting fired is high.

Instead, he gets to choose his destination (Philly). He gets top money, his buddies are in charge, and the team is not expected to do anything for the next few years. If the Flyers make the playoffs, he gets lauded and cheered. If his team sucks, he's still safe. Bulletproof job for 3 years at least.

 

[arttk]

People are WAY overanalyzing things here (to be expected from Canuck fans, lol.) Say Tocc stays, and the team doesn't make the playoffs next year, the likelihood of him getting fired is high.

Instead, he gets to choose his destination (Philly). He gets top money, his buddies are in charge, and the team is not expected to do anything for the next few years. If the Flyers make the playoffs, he gets lauded and cheered. If his team sucks, he's still safe. Bulletproof job for 3 years at least.

fixing the team that he is personally attached to probably means more too.
- get PAID
- better travel
- go back to the team he was a part of for his pro career
- can fix a team that he is personally attached to
- low expectation & job security
- no media to deal with

there are a lot of good reasons for him to jump

 

[Hodgy]

But they did negotiate a club option. I'm not saying there was a point this past year where the team intended or anticipated that Tocchet to coach out his option year but it's there. There's nothing stopping the Canucks and Tocchet from negotiating an extension that replaces the option year. It also makes absolutely no difference to us fans whether the team negotiates an extension before exercising the club option or they exercise the club option and then negotiates an extension.

If the Canucks wanted him back, they should have picked up the club option while negotiating an extension with Tocchet especially if, like you said, the team didn't envision a scneario where Tocchet would not re-sign. It's simlar to a qualifying offer to a 10.2(c) player. Not picking up Tocchet's club option is akin to Tallon not faxing in the qualifying offers (and Tallon works for the Canucks now).

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about team options. I'd love see the exact language because I think there could be employment law issues related to forcing a person to work for you. Not an employment lawyer, so am not sure.

But your example of the QO is good in that it illustrates an important difference: the player qualified is merely offered a contract which he can accept or decline, and not forced to play for the team. I do wonder if the team option for Tochett is structured more in this way, in that the team could have essentially qualified Tochett, and that he could accept or decline, and if he declined, perhaps he couldn't work as a coach this year.

But anyway, I really don't think that the Canucks management just recently decided they weren't going to exercise the team option. You can disagree, but personally, I think they have known that for a while. And if they did just decide not to exercise it, then what changed?

 

[I am toxic]

It came within one game in 2011.

and in 1994

 

[Bubbles]

fixing the team that he is personally attached to probably means more too.
- get PAID
- better travel
- go back to the team he was a part of for his pro career
- can fix a team that he is personally attached to
- low expectation & job security
- no media to deal with

there are a lot of good reasons for him to jump

That's why I never bought into the "practice facility" as a reason....just a red herring or minor gripe that was blown out of proportion. You can forget the "family reasons", that's been well debunked.

According to a recent TSN article, the average tenure of a coach in the NHL is about 2.2 years. Take out Cooper and Brind'Amour and it's absolutely shocking how long a coach lasts in the NHL. If Colorado flunks out, Bednar's a goner too.

 

[VanJack]

I thinks fans and the media are 'overanalyzing' this. And as usual, the local media in Vancouver slept through what was apparently really happening.

It's been rumored that the Canucks approached Tocchet about a contract extension in mid season. But HE was the one who told the club he'd prefer to wait until the season was over. That should have been our first clue.

Everyone agrees, the Canucks made him a fair contract offer. Even his agent admits that. But Tocchet had made up mind that 'it was time to go back home'. His friends and family are in the East, and I'm sure he just wants to coach an NHL team in the Eastern time-zone.

And four or five more years coaching in this market just wasn't appealing to him at all. And who can blame him? It's a hyper-sensitive market; the in-season travel is brutal; and the team is current emmeshed in the mushy middle.

So Tocchet chose to pull the pin. It's really not that big a deal imo, and eminently predictable in hindsight.

 

[timw33]

I'm beginning to lean in this direction as well, but it's hard not to recognize some frustration influencing my thoughts on the subject.

What happens next year hinges on several huge factors: Is Hughes willing to commit to another contract? Can Pettersson come back as a top line 100 plus point Centre? Can Demko remain healthy sharing the net with Lankinen?

Even without Hughes, the defence, is pretty good. With him, it should be dominant. Lankinen and Demko splitting duties in net, should be one of the best tandems in the league. Petey playing his A game and there's enough promise elsewhere to at least be average, or slightly below with time to improve.

If Hughes isn't in it for the long term, then at least you've got the option of recouping a ton of value with a trade, but generally you come out on the losing end of the bargain trading the best player in a deal. If Demko can't be relied upon, there may still be some hope Silovs or Tolipilo prove to be reliable, but I don't think Lankinen is built to play 55 plus games a year. That's a series issue.

If Pettersson can't return to form, you're absolutely hooped as you've got no top six centers while already being weak on the wings.

Any two of the above fail, pragmatically you've got to look at selling off some of the better players for picks and try to build that way. However, that is most certainly not the Blueberries way, so more than likely we'll just watch ticket prices escalate and the Canucks promise the playoff while floundering every Feb and March.

We're absolutely heading towards a potentially franchise chasing inflection point. There is a lot of variance at play.

 

[Hansen]

Tocchet would 100% run Michkov out of Philly

 

[bossram]

As an aside, but in the context of rebuilds, listening to JR talk about how things have come off the tracks here was really grating. Like, how many times does the train have to come off the tracks, during your team's purported competitive window, for one to realize that you need a new train.

Mostly agree with your post, but just wanted to make a cheeky point about the train analogy. If the train keeps going off the tracks, who does he think is the conductor?

 

[JT Milker]

For both of you, I'm kinda curious why you're not worried about Quinn leaving. He is the only reason this franchise has some semblance of competitiveness. Him staying or going is by far the most important existential question for the club. If he walks, this club will be the next Detroit or Buffalo, "rebuilding" for a decade+.

And it looks bad. We all know he wants to play with his brothers. The team President thinks he's gonna leave. Kinda a big deal.

Yep. The club is collapsing and turning to garbage. If Quinn is going to leave, they're only delaying the inevitable. The only logical decision is to get ahead of it and try to build something for the future if that is the likely outcome.

I just don’t see the point in doing anything other than trying to make the team as competitive as possible to convince Hughes to stay. If the team returns to being a contender and Hughes still chooses to leave, it is what it is.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

he's a convicted felon who ratted out his coconspirators and probably was involved in point shaving if not outright match fixing. his character isn't in question but not in the way you think

Who did he rat out?

"... probably was involved in point shaving if not outright match fixing."

Source please.

What's hilarious is that Tocchet was convicted of doing what the NHL practices today.

If you can point to any time Tocchet displayed poor character while he was the Canucks' head coach, I'd love to hear it.

 

[December5th]

Tocchet is not a quitter. This was suggested to him by management. "There will be less turmoil for the team this way, Rick." Tocchet's a team guy and he put the team first even though he knew he would be fired if he didn't quit.

f*** this team.

tocchet wanted out. if he was forced to quit, you wouldnt hear the things rutherford said because you dont say those type of things in a situation where you forced a guy to quit and take the fall. your theory doesnt pan out

 

[calnuck]

I’m curious to see who is let go in the offseason. If a coach like Cooper or Bednar comes available you have to do everything you can to get them.
Either way, they HAVE to get this decision right. The lack of offense and poor power play can’t be allowed to continue

 

[Treefingers]

Tocchet is not a quitter. This was suggested to him by management. "There will be less turmoil for the team this way, Rick." Tocchet's a team guy and he put the team first even though he knew he would be fired if he didn't quit.

f*** this team.

So let me get this straight. You think that the Canucks management, despite bringing in Rick Tocchet in the first place, building the team around players he specifically wanted and the style he wanted to play, saying multiple times at multiple points during the season that they want to bring him back and that he’s their guy, who (as per Tocchet’s own agent) offered Tocchet a substantial contract extension…actually wanted him gone and went through this whole rigmarole for…what exactly?

 

[F A N]

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about team options. I'd love see the exact language because I think there could be employment law issues related to forcing a person to work for you. Not an employment lawyer, so am not sure.

There are situations where specific performance is warranted but we don't really need to go too deep into this. We do know that teams do need permission to talk to head coaches under contract (whether coaching in the AHL or fired). I also can't imagine a scenario where a coach under contract can simply quit the team to immediately become the head coach of another team (granted timing may be important). I would imagine that had Canucks picked up Tocchet's option and Tocchet said no he's not going to honour his contract, the Canucks could hire a new coach while preventing Tocchet from being the head coach of another NHL team (with or without Bettman's involvement). Although not a like for like scenario, another example is Chayka. He quit the Coyotes and was essentially prevented from taking a position with the Devils as it wasn't a promotion.

It would be interesting to hear legal arguments but I would imagine it similar to the requirement that all employees need to join the union and there is a CBA that governs (although the CBA here doesn't extend to coaches). Aside from length of player suspensions, nobody has challenged Bettman's ruling on who is eligible to play/work in the NHL.

But your example of the QO is good in that it illustrates an important difference: the player qualified is merely offered a contract which he can accept or decline, and not forced to play for the team. I do wonder if the team option for Tochett is structured more in this way, in that the team could have essentially qualified Tochett, and that he could accept or decline, and if he declined, perhaps he couldn't work as a coach this year.

In other sports there are team/player options that can be negotiated though. Those would be better examples. But again, it goes back to the fact that if Tocchet can choose to walk away, why did the Canucks seemingly rely on the team option and not negotiate an extension last summer? I think if Tocchet is taking the year off for family reasons we wouldn't be having this lengthy discussion here.

But anyway, I really don't think that the Canucks management just recently decided they weren't going to exercise the team option. You can disagree, but personally, I think they have known that for a while. And if they did just decide not to exercise it, then what changed?

I don't think the club option was negotiated with the intention that it would never be picked up. Coaches do coach out the last year of their contracts more often these days. Even so, it would be reasonable for Allvin to take the position that Tocchet essentailly has another year left on his contract (the club option) and it would be par the course to negotiate an extension before the start of the season rather than theoretically 2 years before or even wait. I guess what could have changed is a difference in opinion and approach between Allvin and Rutherford. Allvin might have been more inclined to enforce the club option while Rutherford decided to take a more friendly approach to negotiations with Tocchet (not imagining that Tocchet would leave like you said).

To be fair to Tocchet as well, if that club option didn't mean anything, I would be pissed if I was him if the Canucks didn't approach me to negotiate an extension after winning coach of the year. This isn't like the Rod Brind'amour situation where the owner/GM was saying they want him back and in the end did take care of him.

 

[bossram]

I just don’t see the point in doing anything other than trying to make the team as competitive as possible to convince Hughes to stay. If the team returns to being a contender and Hughes still chooses to leave, it is what it is.

The pathway to competitiveness appears to be shrinking. And Hughes walking as a UFA might be the death blow for this moribund franchise.

 

[Ernie]

fixing the team that he is personally attached to probably means more too.
- get PAID
- better travel
- go back to the team he was a part of for his pro career
- can fix a team that he is personally attached to
- low expectation & job security
- no media to deal with

there are a lot of good reasons for him to jump

Unfortunately a lot of this list applies players as well.

 

[calnuck]

The pathway to competitiveness appears to be shrinking. And Hughes walking as a UFA might be the death blow for this moribund franchise.

If this happens, maybe, JUST MAYBE, it would force Blueberries to sell. To lose a borderline generational talent that this team has never had, would be almost impossible to overcome

 

[BoHorvat 53]

The pathway to competitiveness appears to be shrinking. And Hughes walking as a UFA might be the death blow for this moribund franchise.

If you want to be realistic, even if this management group wanted to move Quinn, ownership would not give them the green light. Those cheap f***s refuse to rebuild at any cost. It's a whole other discussion that their hand will get forced if (when) Quinn leaves, but it'll be from their cold, dead hands.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

tocchet wanted out.

Source please.

 

[Vector]

 

[Chairman Maouth]

So let me get this straight. You think that the Canucks management, despite bringing in Rick Tocchet in the first place, building the team around players he specifically wanted and the style he wanted to play, saying multiple times at multiple points during the season that they want to bring him back and that he’s their guy, who (as per Tocchet’s own agent) offered Tocchet a substantial contract extension…actually wanted him gone and went through this whole rigmarole for…what exactly?

And when have we ever heard the ownership or management of a sports team expressing full support for a coach or manager whom they fire less than a week later? That never happens.

 

[arttk]

Unfortunately a lot of this list applies players as well.

honestly this applies to everyone. if somebody pays me more money to go to a place where i grew up (vancouver) and the work environment has no pressure, i am there tomorrow.