Confirmed with Link: Canucks announce HC Rick Tocchet will Not Return

[Vector]

 

[TruGr1t]

If it's about the money then don't BS about family reasons. The team negotiating a team option and then not using it (when the team option is the reason why an extension wasn't really discussed last summer) is confounding.

Who knows the real reason, but they left the contract talks too late, obviously. That being said, it could have been Tocchet refusing to negotiate since last summer (maybe he always intended to leave, but I doubt it, coming off the playoffs last year). The fact that they didn't initiate negotiations until recently under the auspices of an obviously impotent team option on the contract, is potentially one of the problems.

Same for players, but most times you let a guy get this close to free agency, they start dreaming of other pastures.

 

[IComeInPeace]

Friedman speculating that Tocchet was made a considerable offer and it wasn’t the money but that Tocchet realized he couldn’t go through another season like the one he just had…

…I think EF said the ‘fishbowl market’ was a factor, but then seemed to me to be alluding to the EP40 situation and working with him one on way over the summer and what will it be like here in Vancouver if that situation isn’t resolved….

I think Friedman was using the term ‘burned out’ from what he just went through this season, and after the Canucks stepped up with a good offer he thinks Tocchet just realized he wasn’t up for another season like the last one.

Now, if that’s true then I wonder what the mood is amongst the players (especially the one that matters the most)?

Is Quinn Hughes dreading the stress of the season to come?

I’d hate to think he’s home right now somewhere thinking ‘shit, I don’t want to go back there…’

 

[timw33]

Couple things at play here for me:

1. Tocchet wanting Top-5 or Top-10 coaching money is absolutely laughable. His track record is extremely mid, and the best results he ever had came from a year where 5 guys shot 19%+. Offence and chance generation seemed to be slowly coached out of everyone's game in favour of low-event mind numbing hockey.

2. It concerns me that management even offered top-5/10 coaching money. That speaks to their skills in assessing what is and isn't working within the organization.

To me, based on all the facts we have, this is a bullet dodged. Had he signed this big money long term deal we would simply be stuck with him just due to the cost committed, providing limited ability to pivot should Tocchet-coached teams moving forward look like the 24-25 version and not the 23-24 version.

At the end of the day I don't know how anyone looks at how the last 2.5 years have gone and go "wow....this guy is the next John Cooper we have got to do anything to keep him around".

 

[TruGr1t]

2. It concerns me that management even offered top-5/10 coaching money. That speaks to their skills in assessing what is and isn't working within the organization.

They have a habit of doing this with players as well ... act all rational up until the 11th hour and then have a freak-out and basically write a blank cheque. See: Lindholm and Zadorov.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Couple things at play here for me:

1. Tocchet wanting Top-5 or Top-10 coaching money is absolutely laughable. His track record is extremely mid, and the best results he ever had came from a year where 5 guys shot 19%+. Offence and chance generation seemed to be slowly coached out of everyone's game in favour of low-event mind numbing hockey.

2. It concerns me that management even offered top-5/10 coaching money. That speaks to their skills in assessing what is and isn't working within the organization.

To me, based on all the facts we have, this is a bullet dodged. Had he signed this big money long term deal we would simply be stuck with him just due to the cost committed, providing limited ability to pivot should Tocchet-coached teams moving forward look like the 24-25 version and not the 23-24 version.

At the end of the day I don't know how anyone looks at how the last 2.5 years have gone and go "wow....this guy is the next John Cooper we have got to do anything to keep him around".

Tocchet's true value was as an influence to keep Hughes on this team. He is a mid coach who is replaceable. But the optics don't look great any way you slice it.

I'm also willing to bet the Miller incident was worse than publicized and it played a role in his leaving.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

TSN panel has Vancouver dead last among desirability of coaching openings (NYR/Boston at the top)
Reasoning:
- Declining team and organization
- Undesirable market
- Ownership won't pay you well

Can't say I disagree.
This franchise is a leaguewide laughing stock and needs a total overhaul - new ownership & management please

This franchise will never win a Stanley Cup with the Aquilini family owning the team. You can take that to the bank.

 

[F A N]

Who knows the real reason, but they left the contract talks too late, obviously. That being said, it could have been Tocchet refusing to negotiate since last summer (maybe he always intended to leave, but I doubt it, coming off the playoffs last year). The fact that they didn't initiate negotiations until recently under the auspices of an obviously impotent team option on the contract, is potentially one of the problems.

Well according to Allvin, there was no urgency to get an extension done because there was a team option. The team option appeared quite potent for a while.

Same for players, but most times you let a guy get this close to free agency, they start dreaming of other pastures.

Yes because it takes away the risk of not having a contract. The closer you get to free agency the more certain you can be of the offers you're likely to get. If the Canucks simply exercised their team option and then negotiated an extension with Tocchet then Tocchet would likely have signed that extension. Even if no extension was negotiated the team had negotiated a team option. There was nothing wrong with exercising that option. If Tocchet really wanted to leave and not fulfill his contractual obligations that could be worked out.

 

[quat]

Friedman speculating that Tocchet was made a considerable offer and it wasn’t the money but that Tocchet realized he couldn’t go through another season like the one he just had…

…I think EF said the ‘fishbowl market’ was a factor, but then seemed to me to be alluding to the EP40 situation and working with him one on way over the summer and what will it be like here in Vancouver if that situation isn’t resolved….

I think Friedman was using the term ‘burned out’ from what he just went through this season, and after the Canucks stepped up with a good offer he thinks Tocchet just realized he wasn’t up for another season like the last one.

Now, if that’s true then I wonder what the mood is amongst the players (especially the one that matters the most)?

Is Quinn Hughes dreading the stress of the season to come?

I’d hate to think he’s home right now somewhere thinking ‘shit, I don’t want to go back there…’

aaannnnd there we have it. Blaming the fans. It's so predictable.

What evidence is there that "the fishbowl market" is actually a thing? Fans in BC when meeting players away from the rink are polite and give players space. That's always been the feedback. The only time the fishbowl thing is brought up, it's from the media, ignoring that it's entirely media generated. I

'm not saying there isn't more attention in some markets over others, as definitely that's the case. It's just not as big a thing as it's made out to be.

What a bunch of self serving morons, Friedman included.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Can someone take Rutherford's media pass away? Someone f***ing stop this guy. Just shut. The f***. Up.

 

[bossram]

I refuse to worry about Quinn walking away. Worrying about something over a year away when so many things could happen between now and then is pointless. Having said that, should the day come when Hughes, the best defenseman in franchise history, leaves while in his prime, I would seriously have to reconsider my Fandom. As a fan, I want to believe the team could catch lightning in a bottle and win it all. But with the ongoing corruption in league officiating, tax haven advantages, and a meddling idiotic owner, I just couldn't see them winning ever.

There’s no point in worrying about Hughes. Goal should be to do what it takes to be a contender next year and/or the year after; if that isn’t enough, it is what it is.

For both of you, I'm kinda curious why you're not worried about Quinn leaving. He is the only reason this franchise has some semblance of competitiveness. Him staying or going is by far the most important existential question for the club. If he walks, this club will be the next Detroit or Buffalo, "rebuilding" for a decade+.

And it looks bad. We all know he wants to play with his brothers. The team President thinks he's gonna leave. Kinda a big deal.

The issue I have is that by waiting, you are essentially putting your own fate in someone else's hands. This team goes as far as Hughes will take us, make no mistake - he is the franchise. If he decides to walk (and let's face it, why the f*** wouldn't he at this point), this organization is beyond f***ed. They will be left with a capped out roster, no blue chip prospects and no flexibility to do anything but finish 9th-11th every year.

Whereas, if you deal him now and bite the bullet, you are guaranteed to receive quality assets because he has no NTC or NMC. Canucks will have a ton of league interest because it's Quinn f***ing Hughes. You admit that this core had its one run and failed to deliver, and you rebuild through a few quality upcoming drafts.

But I fully expect our moronic owner to hold onto him and force management to bring in more players to try and make the playoffs, and then either lose him for nothing in two years or a shit return because we have no leverage.

Yep. The club is collapsing and turning to garbage. If Quinn is going to leave, they're only delaying the inevitable. The only logical decision is to get ahead of it and try to build something for the future if that is the likely outcome.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

For both of you, I'm kinda curious why you're not worried about Quinn leaving. He is the only reason this franchise has some semblance of competitiveness. Him staying or going is by far the most important existential question for the club. If he walks, this club will be the next Detroit or Buffalo, "rebuilding" for a decade+.

And it looks bad. We all know he wants to play with his brothers. The team President thinks he's gonna leave. Kinda a big deal.

Yep. The club is collapsing and turning to garbage. If Quinn is going to leave, they're only delaying the inevitable. The only logical decision is to get ahead of it and try to build something for the future if that is the likely outcome.

We are 1000% going to get Tavares'd if we don't trade him this season.

Then his value drops because teams will correctly deduce that he has a very high chance of going to NJ. Which leaves a bunch of mid packages, and a bunch of spare parts from NJ when all they have to do is wait it out.

The right move is to trade him discreetly this summer at the draft or after Free Agency, because his value will never be higher and there will be no shortage of suitors. We could walk away with a blue chip 1C/2D under 25, and multiple first rounders with secondary prospects, all while entering two stacked drafts with generational talents at the top end.

Or, they can wait and watch it drop to a mid first, B prospect and 3rd rounder in 2028, then tell Canucks fans they "ran out of time" and "this is the best we could get with the cards we were dealt" because taking ownership and having foresight are qualities that do not f***ing exist with this management and ownership group.

 

[quat]

Couple things at play here for me:

1. Tocchet wanting Top-5 or Top-10 coaching money is absolutely laughable. His track record is extremely mid, and the best results he ever had came from a year where 5 guys shot 19%+. Offence and chance generation seemed to be slowly coached out of everyone's game in favour of low-event mind numbing hockey.

2. It concerns me that management even offered top-5/10 coaching money. That speaks to their skills in assessing what is and isn't working within the organization.

To me, based on all the facts we have, this is a bullet dodged. Had he signed this big money long term deal we would simply be stuck with him just due to the cost committed, providing limited ability to pivot should Tocchet-coached teams moving forward look like the 24-25 version and not the 23-24 version.

At the end of the day I don't know how anyone looks at how the last 2.5 years have gone and go "wow....this guy is the next John Cooper we have got to do anything to keep him around".

I'm beginning to lean in this direction as well, but it's hard not to recognize some frustration influencing my thoughts on the subject.

What happens next year hinges on several huge factors: Is Hughes willing to commit to another contract? Can Pettersson come back as a top line 100 plus point Centre? Can Demko remain healthy sharing the net with Lankinen?

Even without Hughes, the defence, is pretty good. With him, it should be dominant. Lankinen and Demko splitting duties in net, should be one of the best tandems in the league. Petey playing his A game and there's enough promise elsewhere to at least be average, or slightly below with time to improve.

If Hughes isn't in it for the long term, then at least you've got the option of recouping a ton of value with a trade, but generally you come out on the losing end of the bargain trading the best player in a deal. If Demko can't be relied upon, there may still be some hope Silovs or Tolipilo prove to be reliable, but I don't think Lankinen is built to play 55 plus games a year. That's a series issue.

If Pettersson can't return to form, you're absolutely hooped as you've got no top six centers while already being weak on the wings.

Any two of the above fail, pragmatically you've got to look at selling off some of the better players for picks and try to build that way. However, that is most certainly not the Blueberries way, so more than likely we'll just watch ticket prices escalate and the Canucks promise the playoff while floundering every Feb and March.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

It all began with letting Zadorov walk IMO, this whole clusterf*** of a season

A comment from someone that definitely didn't watch Zad play this year...... YIKES

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Tocchet is not a quitter. This was suggested to him by management. "There will be less turmoil for the team this way, Rick." Tocchet's a team guy and he put the team first even though he knew he would be fired if he didn't quit.

f*** this team.

 

[rypper]

Tocchet is not a quitter. This was suggested to him by management. "There will be less turmoil for the team this way, Rick." Tocchet's a team guy and he put the team first even though he knew he would be fired if he didn't quit.

f*** this team.

That's certainly one theory.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Boston has a TON of negatives but Zadorov is one of their only lone positives of the season.

lol... absolutely not at that price

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Tocchet is not a quitter. This was suggested to him by management. "There will be less turmoil for the team this way, Rick." Tocchet's a team guy and he put the team first even though he knew he would be fired if he didn't quit.

f*** this team.

dramatic much? tocchet is not a huge loss

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Can someone take Rutherford's media pass away? Someone f***ing stop this guy. Just shut. The f***. Up.

who cares?

 

[Chairman Maouth]

dramatic much? tocchet is not a huge loss

I guess you're not a dedicated sports/Canucks fan. Let me fill you in. People get emotional when their team is involved.

Tocchet is not a quitter. Unless there are underlying personal family issues involving Tocchet, anyone who buys this press release is a fool.

 

[Nuck Bonino]

Tocchet is not a quitter. This was suggested to him by management. "There will be less turmoil for the team this way, Rick." Tocchet's a team guy and he put the team first even though he knew he would be fired if he didn't quit.

f*** this team.

Or he knows this team is a sinking ship and doesnt want to stay here.
I think we might have to accept the inevitability that Hughes is gone after this year too. Tocchet leaving all but confirms it.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Or he knows this team is a sinking ship and doesnt want to stay here.
I think we might have to accept the inevitability that Hughes is gone after this year too. Tocchet leaving all but confirms it.

I think my theory is more plausible but yours is noted. I don't think Tock would be a captain abandoning a sinking ship. He has more character than that.

 

[Hodgy]

Not that hard, apparently. Much like Zadorov, sounds like they came in with a higher bid near the end of negotiations.

Management strategy: Low ball ... low ball ... low ball ... OMG HE'S GONNA LEAVE MEET HIS ASK! We're surprised he didn't stay, we met his ask.

To an extent though, that's negotiating. We don't really know if they are "low balling" players beyond what's normal. And in Zadorov's case, apparently they actually met his number and he then increased his number which really does suggest Zadorov just didn't want to sign here.

Well according to Allvin, there was no urgency to get an extension done because there was a team option. The team option appeared quite potent for a while.

I think that's just a deflection. Like, did they just wake up one morning and realize they weren't going to exercise their team option? I can't imagine that was the case. More likely that they have never intended to exercise the team option. I think they really just didn't envision a scenario where Tochett would not re-sign if offered a satisfactory contract. And the fact that this happened speaks volumes in terms of what Tochett thinks of the organization.

For both of you, I'm kinda curious why you're not worried about Quinn leaving. He is the only reason this franchise has some semblance of competitiveness. Him staying or going is by far the most important existential question for the club. If he walks, this club will be the next Detroit or Buffalo, "rebuilding" for a decade+.

And it looks bad. We all know he wants to play with his brothers. The team President thinks he's gonna leave. Kinda a big deal.

Yep. The club is collapsing and turning to garbage. If Quinn is going to leave, they're only delaying the inevitable. The only logical decision is to get ahead of it and try to build something for the future if that is the likely outcome.

For sure. I have no idea why some people are downplaying this. I think if Hughes confirms this summer that he won't re-sign then you absolutely trade him this summer. And management should be putting this question to Hughes, although I doubt they will as they will be afraid of his answer, and ultimately, I think this management team, for its own self-interest, wants to try to compete.

But, if he says he doesn't know if he will re-sign and that it will depend on how the team progresses (which, if we are being fair, is a totally reasonable answer) then I don't see much risk in trying to compete this year. I think if the team hires a good coach, hits a couple home run acquisitions this summer, they will be back in the playoffs. Not saying its overly likely, but at least there is a path to success, and that may lead to Hughes re-signing and not having a dark 5 year plus rebuild or whatever. If they fail, then they are trading Hughes and they should start a full rebuild, and the downside really is they get less for Hughes to reflect he's got one less year on his contract. But I don't think there is going to be some massive change in his value: if you need to trade him now because he's going to sign with NJ, then that's going to be reflected in his current value. So, I'm OK rolling the dice once more here acknowledging that we will lose a bit of value for Hughes. But the upside seems worth it to me.

My real concern is that they botch it this summer, try again next summer and botch it, and need to trade Hughes as a UFA rental at the 2027 deadline and then never commit to a rebuild and try some stupid retool on the fly that we've seen this organization try in the past.

As an aside, but in the context of rebuilds, listening to JR talk about how things have come off the tracks here was really grating. Like, how many times does the train have to come off the tracks, during your team's purported competitive window, for one to realize that you need a new train.

 

[Tinhorn1]

This franchise will never win a Stanley Cup with the Aquilini family owning the team. You can take that to the bank.

It came within one game in 2011.

 

[credulous]

I think my theory is more plausible but yours is noted. I don't think Tock would be a captain abandoning a sinking ship. He has more character than that.

he's a convicted felon who ratted out his coconspirators and probably was involved in point shaving if not outright match fixing. his character isn't in question but not in the way you think