Confirmed with Link: Canucks announce HC Rick Tocchet will Not Return (UPD May 13: Tocchet to coach Flyers)

[VancouverJagger]

Actively cheering Flyers losses now

 

[Diablo2020]

Tocchet basically said dont waste one until you have traffic in front. On one hand he's right, on the other hand it was highly telegraphed and only Huggy could make plays to get it on net with the added preasure the play being telegraphed cost us.

I just want to add, 4 days later the twitter exchange I posted had a thread bump, since we discussed it for a bit here thought id share..



LOLOLOL

 

[quat]

It's not a big deal to me, I don't really care that he's gone...it seems to be a bigger deal to people who seem to be harboring a lot of ill will towards the guy for moving on...who really cares why he wanted out? Chances are he was hopeful to get the Philly job but didn't want to put his eggs in one basket...when you're out of work and looking for a job, people tend to interview in multiple places and then hope for the job that you want most to make you an offer. I guess if you only look at it through the lens that he had an offer to maintain the status quo and stay in Vancouver and chose somewhere else, then sure, he "bailed" on the team...but I think you need to be pretty emotionally abnormal to be butthurt about it. Maybe I'm just not a big enough fan anymore? lol

I don't know about all that, but it is kind of fun to rag on a guy who quite literally preached one thing, accountability, and then left when he felt there was a better opportunity. I can't really be serious throwing shade on anyone leaving this organization, and it is a rather low level of enjoyment, but after this season? I'm all for dragging that goof through the mud.

 

[F A N]

Yeah, a tongue in cheek comment I missed on first read....but unless the "he can go f*** himself" comment was tongue in cheek as well, it seems a little extreme, no? And no, I don't recall seeing anything from you that was over the top, but I also can't say I've read every comment on this 35-page thread either.

No I don't agree that saying Tocchet can go "F*** himself" is extreme. It's bad language but it's not considered hate speech or anything close to it.

Do you have a specific generalized comment as an example?

I've responded to a couple in my previous discussions with you. I've made it pretty clear.

 

[F A N]

Pat Quinn gave a lot of lip service about caring about the team/franchise/city and then it turns out that as soon as his hot ex-GF in Vancouver broke up with someone else, he was negotiating with them while still under contract with LA. Then, he signed a contract with Vancouver while under contract with LA. NHL disagreed with his actions and prevented him from coaching for over 2 seasons.

They are similar stories with some key differences.

The key differences are key though. Here's an article from 1988:

When the Kings hired Quinn as their coach in May 1984, they offered him a three-year, $510,000 contract with a clause that stated if General Manager Rogie Vachon left the team “for any reason whatsoever” Quinn would automatically become the new general manager.

The Kings knew that Quinn wanted to ultimately become a general manager. He built into his contract a double-option designed to set him on that path. The Kings had two options to be exercised by Oct. 1, 1986. They could either make Quinn general manager the next three years, or extend his coaching contract for one year at a substantially higher salary.

The Kings also agreed when Quinn asked that his contract not be put on file with the league.

Quinn said, in court documents: “I knew, and the Los Angeles Kings knew, that if the Kings did not exercise either of the options and the contract was not filed, I was free during the course of the final season to deal with other clubs for future employment to begin after May 31, 1987.”

As the option deadline approached, Quinn asked for meetings with Vachon and team co-owner Jerry Buss. He was told the team would not negotiate during the season.

After the deadline had passed, Quinn’s attorneys began discussions with the Canucks.

On Dec. 26, Quinn told Vachon of the Vancouver deal. The news broke on Jan. 8. Nearly two weeks after they were informed of Quinn’s contract, the Kings reported the deal to the NHL.
...
If the Kings feel betrayed by Quinn, though, they have themselves to blame, as well as him. They knew Quinn wanted to become a general manager, they knew about the options in his contract and they knew his contract was not on file with the league, leaving him free to negotiate with other teams.

Pat being hired by the Canucks as GM and President is another key difference. A similar scenario would be if the Kings told Pat they wouldn't pick up his option year since they intend to come to a longer-term higher paying agreement with Pat whereby he would be named GM and Pat took the Canucks offer instead.

Obviously perceptions have changed over the course of decades. Today, unless the team is in the dumps and not looking to win, it's unthinkable that an NHL head coach would be allowed to leave the team to take the same position with another team due to the disruption it would cause. But if the coach simply wanted to step away he would likely be allowed to do so. At the same time, it is frowned upon today to prevent someone from taking a promotion with another team.

 

[Canucker]

I've responded to a couple in my previous discussions with you. I've made it pretty clear.

So I'll just take that as a "no" and move on. I really wasn't looking to get into a full press defense of Rick Tocchet. lol

 

[Ninjadude]

Seems like Toch didn't like Petterrsson (from what I'm hearing) so maybe it's best that he isn't coaching this team any longer. Petterrsson needs a fresh start with a new coach (or a new team) and hopefully this change will get him back to his old form.

 

[LuckyDay]

I think the next to see is if the Canucks have a case regarding Philadelphia's tampering. It doesn't look like there's a way to prove it. Just leaks from out of Comcast.

 

[Nuckles]

Really rubbing it in

 

[credulous]

tocchet just wants to grill with the boys in the practice facility parking lot

 

[VanJack]

Find it interesting that some of the Flyers beat writers on the Hockey Writers website are pushing back on Tocchet's hiring.

In the 'whatever have you ever done' department, they point out that his nine years of head coaching, he's only been to the playoffs twice, and won only one series--and that was last year.

They're also casting serious shade at the size and length of Tocchet's contract--given that interim head coach Brad Shaw had a lot of internal supporters and would have returned to the Flyers bench for a fraction of that deal.

They also worry about Tocchet's prickly relationship with offensive players, citing Clayton Keller in Arizona and of course Elias Pettersson in Vancouver. They worry about his impact on some of the Flyers offensive players like Michkov and Konecny.

And the same writers are ticked that GM Daniel Briere has yet to surface pumping the tires on the Tocchet hire. Thus, speculation is that it was ownership rather than the front office, who actually wanted him. So the 'honeymoon' for the retuning Flyer great might be short-lived in the City of Brotherly Love.

But I suppose if his stint in Vancouver prepared Tocchet for anything, it's to stare down the media and the fans who in Philly can be hyper-critical as well. But his team had better get off to a strong start next season.

 

[Bubbles]

tocchet just wants to grill with the boys in the practice facility parking lot

BizNasty appointed special advisor to the GM in Philly.

They also worry about Tocchet's prickly relationship with offensive players, citing Clayton Keller in Arizona and of course Elias Pettersson in Vancouver. They worry about his impact on some of the Flyers offensive players like Michkov and Konecny.

And the same writers are ticked that GM Michelle Briere has yet to surface pumping the tires on the Tocchet hire. Thus, speculation is that it was ownership rather than the front office, who actually wanted him. So the 'honeymoon' for the retuning Flyer great might be short-lived in the City of Brotherly Love.

But I suppose if his stint in Vancouver prepared Tocchet for anything, it's to stare down the media and the fans who in Philly can be hyper-critical as well. But his team had better get off to a strong start next season.

I hope Michkov requests a trade out. It's inevitable that he'll leave, plus Tocc hates Russians.

"Michelle Briere"? Danny Briere was right there next to him at the unveiling. Not sure what you are talking about at all.

That's the point of going to Philly, there are no expectations of him doing well. The team can suck for 3 years and he has a cushion of that. He gets them into the playoffs, he's a god. If he doesn't, it doesn't matter because the team sucks.

 

[Isi]

well, bless Tocchet for turning the practice arena into the major problem needing fixing. I don't buy that he's not just using it as a convenient scapegoat, but hey, if it has lit a fire....

Tocchet takes the Philly job, as expected. Good luck to him.

Did anyone hear Brian Burke relay that he had heard Tocchet was out for the Canucks back in February?

he told marek that, albeit it's easy to say that 3 months later

 

[F A N]

So I'll just take that as a "no" and move on. I really wasn't looking to get into a full press defense of Rick Tocchet. lol

My exact words two posts before were "I also disagree with your generalizations" and explained what I disagreed with. If you're not willing to engage in reasoned discussions it is best for you to move on.

 

[lawrence]

Rick Tocchet explains why he chose Philadelphia Flyers

The Philadelphia Flyers introduced new head coach Rick Tocchet during a press conference Friday, with general manager Danny Briere also addressing Tocchet’s hiring.

www.broadstreethockey.com

The stability obviously of ownership.

I walked around the practice facility, the bowels, there’s so many tools to work with. They have three sheets of ice. As a coach you’re like, ‘Oh my god!’ These are the things you want as a coach.

There’s a lot of draft picks, there’s a lot of prospects,

While I’m happy for him moving on, I’m glad he subtly called out our chaotic ownership and management. Let’s be real: instability defines us. No practice facilities? The Flyers have three rinks; we have none. Francesco’s likely surviving on cash flow, and our depleted prospect pool? Blame past GMs rushing rebuilds under his pressure. At least someone finally hinted at the mess we all see.

 

[Canucker]

My exact words two posts before were "I also disagree with your generalizations" and explained what I disagreed with. If you're not willing to engage in reasoned discussions it is best for you to move on.

"I also disagree with your generalizations. People don't turn down millions of dollars for implied reasons to move back out East only to interview for a job close by because he's now unemployed. Plus he wasn't exactly unemployed. He had the TNT job."

So what was my generalization? That people typically do what they feel is in their best interests? Is what you disagree with? Because that is my argument, and if that's the case then we probably can't have a reasoned discussion, because that is just a simple fact.

 

[rypper]

And the same writers are ticked that GM Michelle Briere has yet to surface pumping the tires on the Tocchet hire.

Some of those writers might need to check their sources...

 

[Zanon]

I can’t believe how much the Flyers paid him. He really hasn’t done a whole lot as an NHL head coach to warrant that much but good for him, I guess. Should send a gift basket to the Canucks for rejuvenating his coaching career.

 

[tantalum]

Tocchet can talk about practice facilities but the implication that players care a lot about it and why they stay in the off season etc seems crazy. Correct me if I’m wrong but unless players get special permission from both NHL and NHLPA they can’t use team facilities in the off season.

Now it would be nice to have a great practice facility but it’s not like the team doesn’t have places to practice…

 

[rypper]

Tocchet can talk about practice facilities but the implication that players care a lot about it and why they stay in the off season etc seems crazy. Correct me if I’m wrong but unless players get special permission from both NHL and NHLPA they can’t use team facilities in the off season.

Now it would be nice to have a great practice facility but it’s not like the team doesn’t have places to practice…

They can use team facilities but team staff, ie skills coaches, etc are no go or limited.

 

[Vector]

They can use team facilities but team staff, ie skills coaches, etc are no go or limited.

Yup!

 

[F A N]

"I also disagree with your generalizations. People don't turn down millions of dollars for implied reasons to move back out East only to interview for a job close by because he's now unemployed. Plus he wasn't exactly unemployed. He had the TNT job."

So what was my generalization? That people typically do what they feel is in their best interests? Is what you disagree with? Because that is my argument, and if that's the case then we probably can't have a reasoned discussion, because that is just a simple fact.

I can only go by what you wrote and not what is in your head. You wrote "when you're out of work and looking for a job, people tend to interview in multiple places and then hope for the job that you want most to make you an offer."

This is a generalization I disagree with. As I explained, people don't turn down what is considered to be a lucrative contract for reasons of wanting to move away only to interview for pretty much the same job close by. Also, Tocchet had the TNT job and he was considered a top HC candidate. You are probably not aware of this, but if you're near the top of your field most don't interview at multiple places hoping for the job they want most to make them an offer.

 

[Canucker]

I can only go by what you wrote and not what is in your head. You wrote "when you're out of work and looking for a job, people tend to interview in multiple places and then hope for the job that you want most to make you an offer."

This is a generalization I disagree with. As I explained, people don't turn down what is considered to be a lucrative contract for reasons of wanting to move away only to interview for pretty much the same job close by. Also, Tocchet had the TNT job and he was considered a top HC candidate. You are probably not aware of this, but if you're near the top of your field most don't interview at multiple places hoping for the job they want most to make them an offer.

And I would disagree with that generalization, when you're in the NHL coaching fraternity every candidate is at the "top of their field" and there are limited jobs to go around, its pretty common for coaches to interview in multiple places....but by not being lazy and explaining it at least I have an idea of what you're saying, so thank you.

 

[Hodgy]

Tocchet can talk about practice facilities but the implication that players care a lot about it and why they stay in the off season etc seems crazy. Correct me if I’m wrong but unless players get special permission from both NHL and NHLPA they can’t use team facilities in the off season.

Now it would be nice to have a great practice facility but it’s not like the team doesn’t have places to practice…

I think you just can’t be on the ice with team
personnel.

 

[Bubbles]

Tocchet can talk about practice facilities but the implication that players care a lot about it and why they stay in the off season etc seems crazy. Correct me if I’m wrong but unless players get special permission from both NHL and NHLPA they can’t use team facilities in the off season.

Now it would be nice to have a great practice facility but it’s not like the team doesn’t have places to practice…

They can organize practices and use the facilities (including gym, food) but cannot have team personnel involved in any way. They can even have their own coaches but they can't be team affiliated.

Canucks were fined 2 years ago for having the Sedins on the ice with a few Canucks for informal summer on ice sessions.